What track/ normal use car.

[edde]

Ok I'm trying to make some sort of decision but after a drive in a 182 today and an excellent price (£11k) I'm even more stuck what to do.
I've got a dci (work maybe £4.3k trade) but want something a bit more fun. A second car for fun and track time is a good idea when I have problems as I need a car for ever day for work as I live in the middle of nowhere.
But I've also been offered a 02 172 for trade in money say £6~7k.
But then theres the reason I'm here Williams and Valvers . How good are they in relation to 172's and 182's assuming all have coilovers/suspension work.
Any views welcome
Many thanks.

[KingStromba]

A standard Williams, from what experts have told me, will easily outperform a standard 182 / 172 in the right hands. Maybe not in a dual carriageway blast, but where it counts on the twisty bumpy stuff.

On a track, maybe it would be closer. The Williams is really well set up but long straights may put it at a disavantage slightly due to less power. Maybe Mark has experience of this?

When you start modding the suspension i guess the pendulum starts shifting towards the 172 / 182 because of the extra power they have. I dont see the point of buying a 182 with coilovers when a 172 with coilovers is essentially the same car. Jusy get a fast example 172 to start with.

If i had 10k to spend on a track car right now and couldnt get a Williams i would be buying that 182 from team think with a sequential box.

Or if i could get a Williams id get one for 3 k and stick a sequential box in it and a LSD.

But hey, right now i have a fetish for sequentials :D Now wheres that Ragnotti vid

[edde]

I have to admit that team think car is very appealing if it was usuable on the road ie lights then I'd have bought it no problem but being as it not legal and I don't realy have space for 2 cars having a car, trailer and a tow car isn't an option.

The has the advantage of the Renault warently and its what £4k extra and worth maybe 2k more at resale (there's always that thing about getting a new car).

Are sequential boxs usuable on the road they do look sound and are impresive (plus nooone realy has one) but how much money are you looking at? A williams like the track one on the forum with a sequential would be an incedible car. I cannot drive well but least I'd have a better chance keeping up.

[GazTwo]

As I said edde have a look at Martin's it's all set up on coilovers etc...and is road legal...for £2650 with a cage it's a fecking steal.... :D

He used it as an everyday car aswell for work etc...if u'd added up all the things listed on Ebay it came to at least £6k without the price of the car....

[KingStromba]

Yeah Martins car is very good value, and ideal for what you want. Its had 10k spent on it. For 3 odd k its an absolute steal. Nothing in the same price range would get close. On coilovers, on a smooth track, it would be amazing, as im sure some of the guys that have seen it would agree.

Plus the added benefit of when you get it i will offer buy the wheels off you in exchange for my Williams wheels (mine are fine but his are brand new) plus a cash incentive :D So could work out even cheaper. :D

Sequentials are about 5 to 7k on a Williams. A LSD is about a grand. Plus fitting on both. The instantaneous gear selection would knock a massive chunk off acceleration time, and would allow smoother deceleration / cornering due to the downchange being clutchless. If you look at the 172 cup racers against the road variants then the racers are massively faster under acceleration, but dont have a massive weight saving or power uprade. Most of that is probably due to their sequential box.

[Mark_Ritchspeed]

On track the Williams is massively superior to a 172 or 182 .Maybe not much quicker (if any) but so much more communicative . Having driven a couple of 172's I am quite surprised how dull the chassis are and even with the very limited engine mods on the rally Clio and my old Willy 3 I have never , ever been slower than any new shape Clio on track. I dare say , that something with a very heavily tuned engine and better suspension may make me eat my words , but until now that hasnt happened.

What a 172 makes up slightly on the straights , it really does lose it in the corners and braking zones . Of course if your using standard Willy brakes then forget it as they are complete shit . The set-up I use on mine (Willwood 4 pots , standard discs) is staggering and shows that you really dont need big discs as its the standard calipers that are THE weakest point on the Williams brakes.

(We will be marketing new Willwood brake set-ups soon and undercutting Rally Design by a reasonable amount.)

Oh as an aside the Pembrey trackday that Cliosport did . The best lap that any Clio did round there in bone dry conditions was precisely 2 seconds slower than I managed in torrential rain in my old Willy 3.


Even after bigging up the Willy this much , if you want a car that will be reliable , fast and great on road and track then for my money nothing gets close to an Integra Type R . The ability of these cars on track is just staggering. The Willy can be , but it does need a few choice mods to get there.

[KingStromba]

Mark interesting what you say about the brakes.

Can you tell me axactly what you run and whether it would be suitible for road use (ie does it need alot of warming up to be effective)?

What sort of cost are you looking at for the set up you mention?

[Mark_Ritchspeed]

Complete brake set up on mine is :

FRONT
Wilwood Dynalite 4 pot calipers
Standard 256mm discs
Wilwood Poly A , D or Q pads (Depending on use)
Braided hoses

REAR
Standard apart from M1144 Mintex pads and braided hoses

GENERAL
Millers High Temp race fluid
Adjustable rear bias

We still have to finalise a few prices , but we are hoping to do the front kit for around £400 delivered which includes everything apart from new standard discs . If these are also needed they are @ £40 plus p+p . Their is no extra vat or hidden extras in those prices.

My current pads are not that suitable for road use , although I still use them on the road . The Poly A pads are rated to 1400 degrees and I gaurantee will never, ever , ever fade . These are my track pads , whilst I tend to use Poly Q (900 degrees C) for rallying as they come up to temp a lot quicker . The Poly D are IMO the perfect fast road pad and are rated to 800 degrees .

Unfortunately none of these pads are "low dust" and will dust up your wheels in no time , but regardless of what any other tuner tells you , I have never seen any high performance pad (that works) not develop more dust than standard.

Something else a lot of other tuners will tell you is that Wilwood calipers are no good for road use as they are not dust sealed . This is also bollocks as my (old type) Dynalites are now over 3 years old and have been constantly abused since new on road and track and still dont need rebuilding . Even if they did the seal kits are very cheap (around £30) and very easy to do. They have probably convered over 40k miles by now.

[KingStromba]

Let me know when you finalise your prices and package, migh be of interest to me.

[Martin]

Buy mine! It was quicker than any 172/182 I came across on track at Oulton!!