View Full Version : Spyder engines
Swervin_Mervin
04-03-2005, 17:18
Did they have the same lump as the wily or megane?
this appears to have a spyder engine and pump out 193bhp with not many mods (http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/detail.asp?i=36093&s=293)
I'm leaning back to keeping mine next year now y'see and saving to go full on hybrid route. But if I do it I'd rather get the engine modded as much as poss before doing the conversion.
same as megane afaik
intrested 2 now the exact spec of the engine
KingStromba
04-03-2005, 19:13
Racing spyder = Williams engine
Road Spyder = Megane engine
Racing spyder = Williams engine
Only the best. :wink:
the megane enigne is better :wink:
KingStromba
07-03-2005, 00:37
It is indeed. But unfortunately it suffers from one major weakness. It is not enclosed by a Williams bonnet :wink:
KingStromba
07-03-2005, 00:39
Then its not a megane engine is it? :wink:
errrrrrrrrr .... yeah lol megane block rods pistons
well mine aint a "16v" engine, thats for sure! (obviously im talking model...not the number of valves :P )
KingStromba
07-03-2005, 00:43
What you mean is it WAS a megane engine. By its very nature of the adjective, as soon as it goes in a Williams, it becomes the engine of that Williams, and hence by definition a Williams engine.
A williams engine in a valver is a valver engine, but still a F7R.
Its grammar :D
so your telling me a golf ball in an egg box is an egg?!
lol..but they are williams engine valvers...or more commonly known as this.....so mine is more like a megane engined williams.....altho i have the willy head and box to even things out a little :wink:
KingStromba
07-03-2005, 00:50
No because they are two separate entities. But playing football with a golf ball makes the golf ball a foot ball. The action describing the ball.
The ball is decsribed by the action. Kicking a ball makes it, gramatically a football, but technically, still a golf ball.
Just as a Megane engine in a Williams is gramatically a Williams engine, but technically still a megane engine.
its a good job im technically minded rather than gramatically minded then...ordering parts would be a nightmare :P :lol:
KingStromba
07-03-2005, 00:56
LOL
question: how is the megane engine better when they are primarily exactly the same... except the Williams one is more than likely stronger due to the strengthening veins? The megane produces more torque due to the head port design iirc... which aint compatible with a Williams anyway... so for all intents and purposes they are the same, as you cant use the megane head... is that right?
KingStromba
07-03-2005, 13:41
Nick explained this to me. Think of the Megane engine as a stepping stone between the 'old' Williams engine and the 'new' 172 / 182 engine.
Renault highlighted some of the problems with the Williams engine and recified them, or tried to rectify them.
:D
question: how is the megane engine better when they are primarily exactly the same... except the Williams one is more than likely stronger due to the strengthening veins? The megane produces more torque due to the head port design iirc... which aint compatible with a Williams anyway... so for all intents and purposes they are the same, as you cant use the megane head... is that right?
it produces more torque, it can rev higher, and aside from the managment it is more advanced=better. a few strengthening vains dont mean shit in anything other than flat out race trim
VIPERONE
08-03-2005, 01:39
:-)
I am getting no work done at all :( , but i'm learning lots about the F7P though... :wink:
but i still reckon mine would be quicker if id built it round the willy block :wink:
question: how is the megane engine better when they are primarily exactly the same... except the Williams one is more than likely stronger due to the strengthening veins? The megane produces more torque due to the head port design iirc... which aint compatible with a Williams anyway... so for all intents and purposes they are the same, as you cant use the megane head... is that right?
it produces more torque, it can rev higher, and aside from the managment it is more advanced=better. a few strengthening vains dont mean shit in anything other than flat out race trim
right, so the Megane engine produces more torque, but that's the head and not the block right? how's it rev higher, diff crank? In which case could you use that in a Williams to make it rev harder.
the strengthening veins sound good tho... :(
yes its the head, but a megane engine is an ENGINE...i.e. including the head
yes the crank is better
yeah, not disputing that, just trying to get me head round it... lol
so, for a recap, if somehow the Williams head was the same shape as the Megane one, would it then produce the same power???
can I use a Megane crank in my Williams to give it more revs, as I have cams going in and an engine that can rev more and safely would be a nice thing to have with em! lol
KingStromba
08-03-2005, 18:51
Just get the crank balanced.
i think you cant just do that, everything else then has to be lightened and balanced someone told me.... which sounds pricey as fook
KingStromba
08-03-2005, 19:09
If the engine is in pieces its not expensive.
BigBoreBri
08-03-2005, 19:12
i think you cant just do that, everything else then has to be lightened and balanced someone told me.... which sounds pricey as fook
IIRC you can just balance the crank but its not really that beneficial without betting lightened pistons etc... so really u wont notice much difference :wink:
so basically, how can you safely make a williams rev higher and safer, without adversely affecting performance and not getting dry bummed on cost?
KingStromba
08-03-2005, 19:29
I think Stan went through this in a different post.
Didnt he work out the speeds of the pistons at different revs and say that at 7200 the piston speed was well within what was deemed satisfactory for their design?
However the crank might be a different story.
Ask Stan. Or Nick Hill :wink:
...need more revs.......... :twisted:
KingStromba
08-03-2005, 19:49
I have 3000 i never use. Give me a grand and you can have them :D
the crank is a weak spot...it has been known to fail. there is no point in lightening it unless u have lighter pistons/rods.
as for the power comparison....they both produce the same power, but the meg engine produces more torque. the bottom end doesn't influence the output in standard trim
KingStromba
09-03-2005, 00:22
What about balancing it?
when a crank gets balanced, it is altered so that it is perfectly (or close to perfectly) dynamically balanced. people believe this makes an engine smoother...they think it "feels" smoother. fair enough. HOWEVER, there is more variation in forces due to cylinder-to-cylinder combustion variations, that cause imbalance. so it deems any mechanical balancing un-necessary. basically, the variations in combustion force outweigh any variation due to a couple of grammes of out-of-balance. forces due to combustion are in the order of magnitude of say 40KN (40 metric tonnes), compare this to say 5g or whatever out of balance, and it makes the actual crank balance negligable.
i let you draw your own conclusions
That cup racer is the sister car to Hippy's Pink car
the engine is a megane bottom end with a spyder race head (worked with unknown cams)
both cars have a grp N ecu and rev to 8 or 8.5 K!!!!
they're quick!!!!
Fred, how come that revs to 8+k??? I want mine to rev like that too, but dont they rebuild the engines all the time for those things when running them in race mode???
KingStromba
09-03-2005, 17:41
Fred, how come that revs to 8+k??? I want mine to rev like that too, but dont they rebuild the engines all the time for those things when running them in race mode???
Yes they get rebuilt more often. Race engines are run in on dynos at varying revs for about 1 hour then banged in the car and thrashed in a race.
They need rebuilding often.
so in other words it has no limiter to speak of, but on a road would go bang after a couple of weeks? sounds... poo... i'll look at other more conventional means for increasing power, think even 2 live would draw the line at an egine rebuild after every drive! :lol:
KingStromba
09-03-2005, 19:29
Yes if i bought a cup racer cat with 8k limit i would probably get the limiter taken down to 7k
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