View Full Version : Engine mapped today... 241bhp
cliokongen
28-04-2012, 22:43
Finally - after a year without the car I had it fixed and remapped.
During a trip to Nürburgring and Spa last year the car acted very strange.
I made it home though. I have tried half-hearted to fix it during the past year - with no succes.
So without knowing what was actually wrong with the car I had a few things to change on the car. Exchanged my Cat 225's for 213's - new 480cc Megane injectors and new lifters.
Been ready for months but had no money, time and found other priorities.
Now that the new track day season has started i felt it was time to get it fixed. Today was the day.... Fix the bugs and get that Orange mapped!
The throttle pot had 3 dead spots - making the throttle response very strange..... Changed for a new one. I can only recommend to always have one in spare if using the Colvern type from Jenvey... They suck!
Next up was the crank shaft sensor. Car would turn over but run very lumpy and strange. New one fitted - suddenly the car would idle again.
I can only recommend to always have one in spare - they obviously stop working....
End result:
241hp @ 7537rpm
243nm @ 6261rpm
Rev limit 8000rpm
21bhp more than last and a shed load of torque more....! Nice! :D
I can't wait to drive it!!!!!
But whay didn't I drive it?
The battery did not survice a year without conditioning - my bad!.
We had to charge it during the day. At the end we noticed a hissing sound and a rather unpleasant smell. The battery was about to blow! :shock: Most probably a cell had collapsed resulting in immense heat build up.
Videos:
http://youtu.be/_GNorTddS2I?hd=1
http://youtu.be/PWRjhwPVyJk?hd=1
http://youtu.be/B77dUtxtPho?hd=1
http://youtu.be/xV7mc_bEq-Q?hd=1
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8151.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8133.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8138.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8142.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8143.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8153.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8127.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/IMG_8129.jpg
M
robi1000
28-04-2012, 23:40
Great work! Too bad I was one month early!
:D
got to be highest RR power n/a F7 powered clio i know of ;-) hope it drives as sexy as it sounds mr michael :-)
sideways danny
29-04-2012, 00:53
Spec please. I'm very cynical
tbh its got to be possible, the white one back in the day ran a 107 terminal, thats got to be good for 240bhp compared to the 221 it supposedly put out??? i think a lot of RR under state the bhp compared to pod terminals.
stevie_b
29-04-2012, 10:07
Impressive result.
For such a light car I am surprised that you have not had the scuttle spoiler thing made from carbonfibre instead of what looks like a heavy length of 4 by 2? :lol:
sideways danny
29-04-2012, 11:53
tbh its got to be possible, the white one back in the day ran a 107 terminal, thats got to be good for 240bhp compared to the 221 it supposedly put out??? i think a lot of RR under state the bhp compared to pod terminals.
mehdi's white one? That did 196bhp. It was a standard bottom end
Getting past ~220 is roughly where you have to start adding 50% to your build cost
Didnt Cliiolords make 240 on certain rollers :lol:
sideways danny
29-04-2012, 12:34
248 IIRC
222 on SRR
i thought mehdi's did over 200 when both craig and martin had it, that was the thing with it, standard b/e but knocked out over 200bhp
this was back in the day though when the nana was reputed to be knockin out 198 on standard inlet!
sideways danny
29-04-2012, 16:51
i thought mehdi's did over 200 when both craig and martin had it, that was the thing with it, standard b/e but knocked out over 200bhp
it was light, that made it really quick.
this was back in the day though when the nana was reputed to be knockin out 198 on standard inlet!
LOL, stock injectors too. 175 absolute max
i thought mehdi's did over 200 when both craig and martin had it, that was the thing with it, standard b/e but knocked out over 200bhp
this was back in the day though when the nana was reputed to be knockin out 198 on standard inlet!
Direct from gaztwo project thread!
Performance (after Inlet Manifold matching)
198.3bhp @ 5900rpm @ fly
172.1bhp @ 5900rpm @ wheels
180.7 lb-ft @ 5610rpm @ fly
cliokongen
29-04-2012, 20:55
Spec please. I'm very cynical
:D
F7R BE (Williams) 1998ccm
8000rpm. rev limit
Lightened and balanced BE (pistons and rods within 1g difference)
Lightened and balanced fly wheel and clutch assembly
Jenvey throttle bodies
Inlet/head port matched
Custom home made stainless catch tank
Walbro ITP248 uprated fuel pump
3 bar pressure
480ml Megane 225 Pico style injectors
Cat Cams vernier pulleys
Cat Cams 213 profile
Timed with the specified values from Cat Cams (lift @ TDC method)
Wössner rods
Wössner 11.2 pistons
Wössner rod bolts
Modified head from AWT (Unknown spec – was expensive though!)
Stainless steel 4-1 Devil manifold with modified downpipe
2,5" custom stainless-steel exhaust (2,5” all the way)
Pacet fan controlled by low temp thermostat
16 row Mocal oil cooler
FMJ Stand alone ECU built into std. ECU box using std. loom and sensors
cliokongen
29-04-2012, 21:00
Had a short drive today.
It is a transformed car!
It pulls very strong in any gear.
a bit flat between 1200-3000rpm - the cams really come to life at around 3500rpm.
Good fun and easy to drive.
I like it and can't wait till the next trackday or trip to the Ring.
Figures is one thing - it's all about how it feels.
M
cliokongen
29-04-2012, 21:03
Impressive result.
For such a light car I am surprised that you have not had the scuttle spoiler thing made from carbonfibre instead of what looks like a heavy length of 4 by 2? :lol:
ha ha... Actually a 4 by 4... Heavy as f***.... :D
Whatever the power Top man , Top car, Top videos, Top of the pops for me anyway 8)
sideways danny
29-04-2012, 21:24
Had a short drive today.
It is a transformed car!
It pulls very strong in any gear.
a bit flat between 1200-3000rpm - the cams really come to life at around 3500rpm.
Good fun and easy to drive.
I like it and can't wait till the next trackday or trip to the Ring.
Figures is one thing - it's all about how it feels.
M
Bet it goes like a bastard. That's 215 on a UK dyno which is a very quick mk1!!
ECU sounds interesting
fabulicious
30-04-2012, 10:42
Man i'd lick that car if I saw it :lol:
so did you find the right bonnet in the end??
you know I was thinking with those ubber cool engine bay's has anyone looked into putting on a see through bonnet? too chavy perhaps?
still looks an epic ride and would no doubt scare the living daylights out of me 8)
TooSkive
30-04-2012, 11:19
Direct from gaztwo project thread!
Performance (after Inlet Manifold matching)
198.3bhp @ 5900rpm @ fly
172.1bhp @ 5900rpm @ wheels
180.7 lb-ft @ 5610rpm @ fly
Was that on Chip Wizards RR? Mine did 270bhp there and 230bhp on Pauls for comparison.
That's an awesome result dude. Well done, glad you have got it back on the road finally!!!!
The 213's are a really nice cam. 225's are great for cars with standard inlet but the 213's and forged BE with ITB's are a great combo and still maintain driveability :)
Direct from gaztwo project thread!
Performance (after Inlet Manifold matching)
198.3bhp @ 5900rpm @ fly
172.1bhp @ 5900rpm @ wheels
180.7 lb-ft @ 5610rpm @ fly
Was that on Chip Wizards RR? Mine did 270bhp there and 230bhp on Pauls for comparison.
Yer but you Carnt compare yours to his. Your cars performance had changed in that time
TooSkive
30-04-2012, 13:07
Direct from gaztwo project thread!
Performance (after Inlet Manifold matching)
198.3bhp @ 5900rpm @ fly
172.1bhp @ 5900rpm @ wheels
180.7 lb-ft @ 5610rpm @ fly
Was that on Chip Wizards RR? Mine did 270bhp there and 230bhp on Pauls for comparison.
Yer but you Carnt compare yours to his. Your cars performance had changed in that time
That was before any work took place, 100% like for like :)
cliokongen
30-04-2012, 22:36
Man i'd lick that car if I saw it :lol:
so did you find the right bonnet in the end??
you know I was thinking with those ubber cool engine bay's has anyone looked into putting on a see through bonnet? too chavy perhaps?
still looks an epic ride and would no doubt scare the living daylights out of me 8)
:D
Leigh-Anne sorted a brand new bonnet for me.
It scares me a bit too... :D
cliokongen
30-04-2012, 22:40
That's an awesome result dude. Well done, glad you have got it back on the road finally!!!!
The 213's are a really nice cam. 225's are great for cars with standard inlet but the 213's and forged BE with ITB's are a great combo and still maintain driveability :)
Thanks Wobba! :P
The 213 profile is just so much better for the ITB's.
As you say - it maintain the driveability and has a broad band of torque.
The 225's is superb for standard inlet and does also work quite well for ITB's.
Would love to try a more aggressive cam with higher compression and mechanical lifters.
M
cliokongen
30-04-2012, 23:09
Dynoplot
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Mapping%20session%2028%20april%202012/Dynoplot_FMJ_28042012.jpg
Had a short drive today.
It is a transformed car!
It pulls very strong in any gear.
a bit flat between 1200-3000rpm - the cams really come to life at around 3500rpm.
Good fun and easy to drive.
I like it and can't wait till the next trackday or trip to the Ring.
Figures is one thing - it's all about how it feels.
M
Bet it goes like a B**t**d. That's 215 on a UK dyno which is a very quick mk1!!
ECU sounds interesting
Why such a negative sceptic on the figure....mine is similar spec (cams slight more agressive and 12.5cr) and thats at 236bhp. Yes all pub figures due to RR variation but with other cars that use the same RR then the figures been spot on and certainly not over reading.
Previous engine was 180bhp and was spot on too, so at least i know i have 55 more bhp... gets results to prove it.
ClioKongen has a propoer manifold and exhaust (2.5") which makes a big different on these cars. Putting a French GPA man and 2.52 system on mine made 12 bhp vs std williams and 2 inch system.
Probably the best kept Mk1 on this forum.
TooSkive
09-05-2012, 08:51
If people cant do it themselves it's better for their ego to just doubt the results.
cliokongen
09-05-2012, 10:03
Had a short drive today.
It is a transformed car!
It pulls very strong in any gear.
a bit flat between 1200-3000rpm - the cams really come to life at around 3500rpm.
Good fun and easy to drive.
I like it and can't wait till the next trackday or trip to the Ring.
Figures is one thing - it's all about how it feels.
M
Bet it goes like a B**t**d. That's 215 on a UK dyno which is a very quick mk1!!
ECU sounds interesting
Why such a negative sceptic on the figure....mine is similar spec (cams slight more agressive and 12.5cr) and thats at 236bhp. Yes all pub figures due to RR variation but with other cars that use the same RR then the figures been spot on and certainly not over reading.
Previous engine was 180bhp and was spot on too, so at least i know i have 55 more bhp... gets results to prove it.
ClioKongen has a propoer manifold and exhaust (2.5") which makes a big different on these cars. Putting a French GPA man and 2.52 system on mine made 12 bhp vs std williams and 2 inch system.
Probably the best kept Mk1 on this forum.
Thanks for the nice commet Evo...
I think you are actually spot on regarding the exhaust issue.
The first time the car was on the rollers with this engine (without ITB's) it made 178bhp. The guy mapping told me to increase the exhaust diameter from 2" to 2,5". I did and instantly it went up to 198bhp with a new map. I must admit there are room for sligt deviation in the figures as it was not on the same rollers. However he uses both of the rollers very often and they are within 1-2% of each other.
If you want bhp from these engines they need to breathe properly.
Additionally - yes it is all pub figures... Honestly it's not important in most cases. It's all about how it drives and feels, smoothness and delivery. However the figures might become inportant as i am planning on taking it off the road and only using it for a class we call "youngtimers" where there use a power/weight ration to divide into classes. Should be fun.
Michael
i'm sure these figures are correct. Whe mapped last month 2 clio's without ITB's but one with 11.5 cr and one with 12.1 and both on 286 cats and verniers, both with megane valves.
165 and 174 atw
If you want bhp from these engines they need to breathe properly.
Michael
no they don't, they need air forced into them at the other end ;-)
A guy up the road from me has over 250 bhp from a Meg F7R n/a. It's not road legal though. I think they reckon 270/280 is doable but they want to strengthen the internals more for the high revs hehe.
Cliolord had 234 catcams I think? They are a bit more extreme. I think what I use the car for I am happy with it as it is, though I might try a lightened flywheel or short ratio box as well this year.
One thing I will say about the breathing, the Supersprint manifold made a noticeable power/torque increase. The Mongoose exhaust is more restrictive than my other 2.5" system, which I took off as it was too loud for normal daily use. Not sure if I would see more power if I put it on again...
TooSkive
09-05-2012, 13:54
One thing I will say about the breathing, the Supersprint manifold made a noticeable power/torque increase. The Mongoose exhaust is more restrictive than my other 2.5" system, which I took off as it was too loud for normal daily use. Not sure if I would see more power if I put it on again...
You'd certainly see a black flag on track though!
cliokongen
09-05-2012, 23:41
Regarding noice levels...
Just tested this evening.
Almost 98dB at idle
107dB at fly by...
:?
sounds great but just to loud for track use...
I think my silencers have "burned" out - definately louder than it used to be. It has seen a lot of abuse though!
Need to sort something before sunday!
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Getting%20ready%20for%202010/25udstdning5.jpg
M
The maxi and touring car engines made 300 240 is totally acceptable. Do u know what valve sizes the orange has
cliokongen
17-05-2012, 22:39
Std. Williams valves i believe... :)
M
16v_paddy
17-05-2012, 22:50
Regarding noice levels...
Just tested this evening.
Almost 98dB at idle
107dB at fly by...
:?
sounds great but just to loud for track use...
May I present to you, a standard megane 225 centre section silencer, modified to fit my magnex exhaust 8)
http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq165/16v_paddy/meggyzorst.jpg
cliokongen
18-05-2012, 00:22
That is a snug fit Paddy! :D
Made this last week before a trackday - just to silence it a bit.
I worked! :)
Old vs. new...
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Getting%20ready%20for%202012/Dpetudstdning2.jpg
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f312/Cliokongen/Getting%20ready%20for%202012/Dpetudstdning1.jpg
Hmmm how much, how quiet and what was bore size ? :-)
For 225 one Paddy
Hmmm how much, how quiet and what was bore size ? :-)
sideways danny
18-05-2012, 01:15
A guy up the road from me has over 250 bhp from a Meg F7R n/a. It's not road legal though. I think they reckon 270/280 is doable but they want to strengthen the internals more for the high revs hehe.
that revs to 11500rpm though, and has an 8 injector setup. Rather different proposition
16v_paddy
18-05-2012, 01:39
Hmmm how much, how quiet and what was bore size ? :-)
Well it cost me a krispy kreme doughnut which I then ate myself :P I've got no idea of the bore size, someone on here must know what bore a magnex is :anyone:
I should explain that previously my sports cat shit itself which in turn destroyed my magnex centre silencer so I chopped it out & replaced with a straight piece of pipe. That was very noisy, 115db to be precise :shock: that silencer fitted snugly over the magnex pipe (after the rest of the meggy pipe was chopped off) and bought the noise down enough to easily pass the noise test at Bedford
Wow so stick the meggy inlet valves in 1mm bigger hello
woehoe, 1 mm extra... calculate how much diff. that makes :roll:
clio-nutta
19-10-2012, 12:43
looks absolutely lush :)
that revs to 11500rpm though, and has an 8 injector setup. Rather different proposition
That could be arranged quite easily ;)
Looks like a ****ing fireball waiting to happen though with those injectors, and there is no filter in place obviously, due to fire risk.
Nice exhaust Michael :D
The fit on my Mongoose is not good. I am forever messing about with it. Might get one specially made next time with bigger bore.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.