Chipping a standard engine

[Vandella]

hey guys, i have a standard setup on my willie and have spotted a hillpower chip. would there b many good reasons to go for this? im not to keen on the violent limiter i have.. like hitting a brick wall. (nearly anyways). Im not sure what sort of gains id be looking for on a standard engine.... advice please??

[chip]

The limiter is the biggest thing that needs changing on the standard ECU, you wont see massive gains in power but it really helps give it longer legs coming out of corners.

[kj16v]

Hi, Vandella.

As above, there aren't any huge gains in top-end power to be had from the stock F7R. But don't forget performance isn't just about top-end power!

I mapped a stock Williams on the dyno a while back; Made a genuine gain of 7 bhp (not 20, 30, 40 or any other guff bhp figure that some other chips claim!). But most importantly it gained torque thoughout the revs, making it a lot more 'fun' to drive on the road!

I'll post up the dyno printouts later

[kj16v]

Before: 148 bhp, 123 lbft
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/8607/williamsstock.th.jpg (http://img402.imageshack.us/i/williamsstock.jpg/)

...and after 155 bhp, 128 lbft
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/50/williamsdecatiktuned.th.jpg (http://img822.imageshack.us/i/williamsdecatiktuned.jpg/)

[chip]

Seems realistic to me KJ16V, thats very similar to my standard engine when I remapped it.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/DSC_0008.jpg

Before figure on mine is lower because it had some crap chip in it (previous owner fitted it) but the after stacks up very much with what you got.

I believe thats basically all thats possible from a bog standard fairly high miles F7R, cant see any 170-180bhp claims having any truth in them at all just from mapping, nothing I did to the fuelling or timing would get me anymore than that figure, what I got really was the maximum possible from the hardware in front of me IMHO and anymore power requires mechanical changes such as cam timing, different profile cams, or better induction like bodies.

[chip]

Bloody edit button.

Meant to post the graph not a link

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/DSC_0008.jpg

[kj16v]

...I believe thats basically all thats possible from a bog standard fairly high miles F7R, cant see any 170-180bhp claims having any truth in them at all just from mapping, nothing I did to the fuelling or timing would get me anymore than that figure, what I got really was the maximum possible from the hardware in front of me IMHO and anymore power requires mechanical changes such as cam timing, different profile cams, or better induction like bodies.

Yep that's for sure. Claims of +20 bhp etc. from various chip floating about on the market is rubbish. The Clio's been around since the early '90s, so it's only taken about 20 years to prove it!

[Vandella]

So like a freshen up..lol. I will be in touch! thanks. She's nearly back with me atm! Cant wait!

[andyleep]

What chip are you referring to KJ? Do you sell it?

[will.i.am.s2]

Interesting thread.... ive got a dyno print out for mine and its completely different to the both of them.

Ive got a near equal torque curve all the way to 6900rpm with no real drop off from peak.

Peak Torque is 125 lbf.ft @ 5110rpm, drops to 120 lbf.ft at the rev limiter!
Bhp 160.3 @ 6915rpm.
Both lines are extremely smooth with no dips etc.

only mods it says on the print out is magnex exhaust and a panel filter but it must have a chip due to the 6900 rev limit, will have to investigate.

Will upload it when i can get a picture off it :D

All id say is never underestimate a properly developed chip, i owned a 1987 325i sport tech1 last year that developed a genuine 192bhp from a BBR starchip and half scorpion exhaust alone, stock power is 174bhp and like the williams the engines in them are not that easy to gain power from

[kj16v]

What chip are you referring to KJ? Do you sell it?

Sorry diddn't see your question.

These results were from from a Clio I live-mapped.

[chip]

Interesting thread.... ive got a dyno print out for mine and its completely different to the both of them.

Ive got a near equal torque curve all the way to 6900rpm with no real drop off from peak.

Peak Torque is 125 lbf.ft @ 5110rpm, drops to 120 lbf.ft at the rev limiter!
Bhp 160.3 @ 6915rpm.
Both lines are extremely smooth with no dips etc.

only mods it says on the print out is magnex exhaust and a panel filter but it must have a chip due to the 6900 rev limit, will have to investigate.

Will upload it when i can get a picture off it :D

How did they do the rpm pickup?
If they are going off your rev counter its perfectly possible that your rev counter is simply not quite correct, its not uncommon for them to over read.



All id say is never underestimate a properly developed chip, i owned a 1987 325i sport tech1 last year that developed a genuine 192bhp from a BBR starchip and half scorpion exhaust alone, stock power is 174bhp and like the williams the engines in them are not that easy to gain power from

Lol @ the contradiction in that, if an exhaust and a remap adds over 10% I would say its quite easy to gain power from TBH.

Its takes all of half an hour at most on the dyno to find the max possible peak power from an N/A engine on the rollers, the development is all about getting the thing to drive nicely etc, thats what takes the time.

N/A engines are very simple to map if you are talking standard cam timing, as literally its just a case of finding the optimum AFR and optimum timing to find peak power, and with only those two variables to consider that really doesnt take very long, anyone claiming it does probably doesnt really know what they are doing mapping an engine TBH.

[will.i.am.s2]

Ive no idea how they did the rpm pickup as it wasnt me who got it tested but the previous owner. Doesnt look like they just looked at the rev counter looking at the readings- think it would be a bit difficult to be as precise as this is just by eye. It was done at powerstation in Tewkesbury if that helps :?

Yeah its a bit of a contradiction that....what i didnt mention was the 86/87 325i had a much higher compresion than the ones made after that date and they respond much better to basic tuning. It also had the later motronic fuel injection setup which gives a handy boost on the high comp engines :D