View Full Version : Nitrous oxide kits
Is anyone using nitrous at the moment? I remember Summeh had nitrous at 75bhp. I think his was a wet setup? I am just looking at options for now. What sort of cost is involved for just the kit?
Nitrous is something of a specialist subject of mine, Ive been involved in a great number of nitrous projects over the last 15 years or so, both N/A and FI, including stuff like helping out with technical direction with Rod Tarrys record breaking Cosworth (206mph :)) so I will help in anyway I can although I havent got it on my F7R as it doesnt really lend itself particuarly well to trackday cars, especially slow ones, just in terms of the running costs of the gas, and Ive no real interest in drag racing mine at the moment as i'll no doubt just break gearboxes if I do and then only to run a crappy 12 or something anyway which seems pretty pointless.
In terms of the kit itself, massively better than anything else on the market is the wizards of nos wet kit with a progressive controller, thats about a grands worth though so it depends what you want to spend.
A secondhand wizards wet kit can be got for about 250 ish normally, but budget a bit more as invariably you'll need to replace some bits of it, even if its only the lines.
I help run a forum about nitrous that it might be worth you posting on:
forum.nitrous-advice.org
What application are you thinking of it for? Ie in terms of the engine its going on and what its going to be used for?
Just my opinion wobba but your going completley the wrong direction for your engine and set up, nitrous is basically forced induction (turbo, supercharger) youve had enough trouble already mate and you will have to re think cr and set up all again for something that will just distroy your gearbox. If you decide to go for it please listen to people like chip who have experience and know how to set it all up but if it was me I would not even consider it. ANDREW.
Just my opinion wobba but your going completley the wrong direction for your engine and set up, nitrous is basically forced induction (turbo, supercharger) youve had enough trouble already mate and you will have to re think cr and set up all again for something that will just distroy your gearbox. If you decide to go for it please listen to people like chip who have experience and know how to set it all up but if it was me I would not even consider it. ANDREW.
Hehe. Who said anything about this engine ;)
What application are you thinking of it for? Ie in terms of the engine its going on and what its going to be used for?
Thanks.
It will probably be a turbocharged low comp F7R.
Ha Ha Ha :lol: nice one wobba your story continues. 8)
he's finally realised n/a ain't the way ;-) mwuhahahahahha!
What application are you thinking of it for? Ie in terms of the engine its going on and what its going to be used for?
Thanks.
It will probably be a turbocharged low comp F7R.
TBH the biggest issue I would have with that personally is the gearboxes are just so crap, which is why i wont tune my car very much as I want to be able to do a dozen trackdays a year and not have to keep swapping boxes, but in terms of the engine itself, nitrous and turbo is just the ultimate combination, the results can be staggering!
The instant the gas comes in you get a surge in power of course, like you would on N/A but as a result of the massive increase in combustion gasses the turbo will spool like mad, with the gas on the 400bhp capable turbo on my sierra spools quicker than a standard 300bhp capable one does without the gas, and not just a bit quicker either, its loads.
This isnt at the same end of the scale as yours, but look at these results from a wizards of nos kit on ollie clarkes imprezza:
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/6258/gobstopper5pa8.png
Thats nominally about a "100 shot" of gas he is putting into that, but look how much power he actually gains from it at the point the turbo wouldnt normally be spooled fully, between 200 and 300 bhp extra (at the wheels!) until the turbo finishes spooling and then 100bhp extra held at the top end.
Thats the real world effects of a decent nitrous kit.
50bhp on a 300bhp engine would have a similar effect percentage wise in terms of power and torque, and what that graph doesnt show but you will REALLY notice when driving is that when you go from closed throttle to full throttle, the speed at which the power arrives is massively increased, its not just that you have more power at a particular point in the rev range, you have far less lag on your way to it as well.
The cooling effect of a 50bhp shot of gas on a 300bhp turbo motor (Im asuming you'll only be building a fairly low powered one like that at this stage as you havent mentioned much about it before but if you were building a moderately powered 2 litre turbo with say 500bhp the same is still true) is a real bonus too, that alone will see your intake temps dropping rather than rising like if you tried to get the power with more boost and potentially if you wanted to you could actually dial in MORE ignition if you were really chasing every last bhp when on the gas.
It really is having your cake and eating it.
If it wasnt for the cost of the gas itself (if I was paying retail money for it my sierra consumes about 50 pence a second in gas!) I am sure that every performance engine would have nitrous, its by far the most effective modification you can do, but its best kept for special occasions unless you have very deep pockets.
In terms of the spec of the engine, nitrous places no real demands on any of the internals etc other than simply the fact it increases torque so obviously things like rods and pistons have to be able to withstand the torque when its active, but there arent really any nitrous specific changes you have to make (slight expception to this is the spark strength will get really tested so you do need a good coil and leads etc) and obvioulsy if you are making more power you'll need an exhaust capable of evacuating it.
There is a reason nitrous is banned in nearly all motorsport, and thats because it works FAR too well!
Laine_16v
17-03-2011, 08:40
Interesting read that! Nitrous y00000!
Interesting read that! Nitrous y00000!
Lol @ the "yo"
I think a lot of people think that nitrous came out with the fast and furious and forget that its actually been used for incresing torque for about 70 years now, they even used it on spitfires during the 2nd world war.
There are a lot of people in this country putting nitrous kits on standard 1.4 engines which IMHO is just pointless when they could just fit the engine out of a bigger car instead, people see it as a quick fix, but in the long run that is very expensive in terms of the actual nitrous consumption.
My take on a suitable application for it is that its the perfect way to make a fast car a very fast car, but that its too expensive in terms of gas usage to make sense for making a slow car into a fast car (except for drag racing where you only use it for a short period of time anyway)
So if you have a 150bhp N/A car like a williams, then its a bad place to put the gas really as even with the gas on its still not actually a very quick car and that means you are going to find yourself using the gas all the time, so you would be better off with a turbo or supercharger to get you to a reasonable output in the first place, but if you have a 500bhp car which is quick enough most of the time anyway, and then you add the nitrous to that as a little top up, its the perfect solution for that occasional time when you want lots of power, and it means you dont have to live with the sacrifice of a 7000bhp turbo the rest of the time etc.
Like I said though, if you are into drag racing, it makes perfect sense on any car, thats the ideal place to use it due to the inherent short time you have it on for, so if you are someone who likes running quarters in their clio, its ideal for that irrelevant of the spec of the car.
So for example I could fit a kit to my car and go straight into the low 13s without needing to make any other modifictions, and thats a relatively expensive place to get to without nitrous.
16v_paddy
17-03-2011, 10:40
It will probably be a turbocharged low comp F7R.
I wonder which handsome ****er gave you that idea :P
@chip your evil bro.... :D
very good read, keep posting bro !!!
what about the std head bolts? would they hold all the pressure from the cylinders?. as i searched for ARP head studs for the F7P/R and did not find any.
Ha! Thanks lads, some nice info there chip, cheers.
It would be a simple safe/low boost engine to start with to iron out gremlins.
Lol Paddy :D
This won't be for my Williams. That's staying N/A, though may go madder one day with some other stuff...for no though, Willy 0217 is a finished project in terms of power, just need sorting the suspension and bodywork next.
This will be for a new project, probably using a cheap or prepped shell for road, track, and 1/4 mile stuff.
I have a spare F7R700 and 714 engine and a couple of heads, but I think the meggy gear is being sold off shortly, so probably strip the 700 block and head and use that as a place to start.
I may scrap the idea and just get a big fat comfy armchair instead. Will have to see. Probably start this off at end of summer if I've not gotten other ideas!
Im not aware of anyone who has had issues on an F7R with head bolts lifting, but its certainly going to increase the average load of them if you start making lots of power.
The idea of the low compression though is to spread the load over a bigger percentage of the cycle in the first place, which results in lower peak loads.
Im sure that finding a set of ARP's wouldnt be the end of the world though if you did have problem with the head bolts lifting.
Best bet at that stage might be to drill the block out and tap it up to the next size to run a bigger diameter stud as well, but Ive not done that on an F7R so cant tell you if you will weaken the block doing so or if there is enough metal, easy way to find out is to drill a scrap block a few mm too big and see what you bash into, thats the same way i normally test things, I did it on this block for example to test how central the bores were in the casting:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/c20let/DSC00018.jpg
If you want to really push things, you have to start looking into what the block itself can really take.
PS
This is how much metal I took out when I was boring it again and again till I found its limits:
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/c20let/DSC00011.jpg
:shock:
ARP dont make studs for the MK1 clio's thats what ARP self told me. best they can do is match the meassurments of the std bolds to studs for other engins to see is there is a engine using similar meassurments.
im kinda scaptical about this so did not do it afterall. i know that they sell 12.9 high tensile headbolts for the R5GTT what about for the clio?
ARP dont make studs for the MK1 clio's thats what ARP self told me. best they can do is match the meassurments of the std bolds to studs for other engins to see is there is a engine using similar meassurments.
Indeed, and like I said if possible find one the right length but thicker and then drill and tap the block (and head potentially) to suit, thats the way to really dramatically increase the clamping force.
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