turbo set up help

[walters300]

many turbo duders on here so hopefully you can help, my car has the turbo and all bits on and its running, its forged and based on a bb tuning install with a bb low boost chip, sounds a bit lumpy and needs fine tuning, i have investigated the set up to sort it out diy, no mechanic but getting there, i am thinking of getting the r21 turbo injectors cleaned and then get a afr gauge and hook it up to the manifold, hopefully then i can use the fuel pressure regulator to fine tune the fueling to make sure i am not running lean, this with the injector clean will hopefully sort that out, i have no idea how to set up the boost side of it, any help much appreciated, i am thinking of manual controller as i can diy it, are electronic ones better? I am happy with 220 bhp so i only need to fine tune it from where it is, any help much appreciated as i havent a clue, thanks lads

[Chet T16]

Certainly a good idea to get a look at the AFR first. Worry about the injectors later

Forget about trying to use the FPR to fine tune it, thats like adjusting your cam timing with a hammer.

What boost is it running?

[kj16v]

[quote="Chet T16"]Certainly a good idea to get a look at the AFR first. Worry about the injectors later
Forget about trying to use the FPR to fine tune it, thats like adjusting your cam timing with a hammer...quote]

Yep agree 100% Also, to get any useful AFR readings you need a Wideband gauge and sensor, not just one that wires into the stock lambda sensor.

You seriously need to get it tuned properly before even running any boost. No exageration when I say that running a poorly setup turbo engine can ruin it in seconds.

BTW, I run a tuning and remapping service for Clios, including Turbos.
Click the link below:
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=39584

I don't want to spam up your thread so PM or gimme a ring if you want any more info.

[walters300]

its running low boost which is 9psi i think, and it did have a electronic boost controller but i removed it after a rebuild and plugged off the dump valve so i have a pidgeon noise, some say good... some say bad! kj if you were down the road this post wouldnt even be on here :P ! will ponder the whole boost thing on the weekend and see if i can work most of it out and ask you guys to fill in the gaps for me. it sounds like a rolling road effort is essential, is this beyond the realms of DIY ? trouble is i have no specialist anywhere near me and i would have to ship the car over, :roll:

[Coops]

get a wideband, i've just bought a AEM effort from scoff on RTOC, about 160 squid it was. it goes into the downpipe on a new weld in boss that comes in the kit.

can squeak up the fuel pressure to make it safer but its no substitute for a proper setup

the BB chips should idle fine, mines dot on 950 idle, and was the same on the low boost chip as well. so something else may be amiss, kippered sensor or something?

i run a manual boost controller, but if your stopping on low boost then you can usually fine tune the boost with the actuator, but obviously you need a boost gauge plumbed up to the inlet to check results. the actuator will have a threaded bar on it with a locking nut, simply loosen the nut,then undo the clip from the wastegate pin and pop the actuator arm off, then turn it half turns each way to increase and decrease boost. nip for a test run after each adjustment to check result on the boost gauge.

flutter sound from no DV is personal taste, allegedly doenst affect the turbo at all but i still cant see how putting extra pressure on the turbo is good so i run a recirculating DV :D

[walters300]

8) starting to understand it now :wink: top man mr coops! i have an adjustable recirc valve but its set at 16 psi so its just like capping it off at the moment. was wondering how i can set that to 9psi, i assume thats what it needs to be? and pipe it to a massive air box i am going to build. would i T the boost gauge in the pipe from the turbo to the fpr?

my silicone hose goes from the inlet manifold to a T, which goes to the top of the FPR and the recirc valve.
another hose line goes from the turbo to the bottom of the FPR and then on to the pipe on the side of the block by the inlet manifold, does this sound right? i also have blanked one port on the inlet manifold and the other has a non return valve between the inlet and rocker cover port.
map sensor goes to inlet manifold on the alternator side. yes!!! i am this bad... :? [/list]

[Chet T16]

Is the car in Ireland? Whereabouts?

[walters300]

yes its in cork. are you anywhere near bud? :wink:

[Chet T16]

I'm in wicklow so not that near

You say the setup is based on BB's, whats different? I ran a couple of different turbo setups on fastchip management (most of BB's turbo setup was fastchip, at least originally) and they were spot on

As Coops said, i'd be more thinking its a dodgy standard sensor. If you hear hooves think horses and all that!

[walters300]

its a total standard set up with a t25 turbo, williams engine and forged bits and ecu with bb tuning chip, 2 bar 21 turbo map sensor which i might change as that could be my problem, anybody got one?? i need to make sure the 6mm hoses for the boost are correct too, does this sound right.
1. turbo actuator to FPR then FPR to pipe on side of block near inlet manifold.
2. pipe from inlet manifold to a T and then from that to the top of the FPR and to the recirc valve.
3. blocked off one other port on the inlet and the other goes to the rocker cover with a non return valve inline.

if all is good it should be a matter of using the boost gauge to tune as coops says, then all should be fine? any other sensors you can think of which might cause idle problems? thanks guys this really does clear up what i thought would be a very complex operation :D

[walters300]

this is a diagram which should explain better :wink:

[Justin..]

why does the fpr have 3 vaccum hoses?


the turbo needs a feed from a close to the boosting outlet as possible

[walters300]

the bottom two pipes are hooked up to whats left of the electronic boost control setup, this has power going to it too? Could i do away with it? Might be some kind of solenoid? Have a new fpr to fit just incase thats the problem, how should my diagram look? Lads i can see light at the end of the tunnel here thank you very much! If anybody can copy and paste my diagram and use paint to show what i need to have that would be uber fantastic, getting excited now that it will actually be working correctly and i understand whats going on!

[Justin..]

:?

Fpr - fuel pressure regulator????


I'm confused with your description....

[Justin..]

you dont need a boost controller for 9 psi any way ...

[walters300]

:? :oops: yes i am very bad, yes fpr is the fuel pressure regulator, this all sounds like all i need to do is 1.get my vac pipes correct 2. Remove the bit off the bottom of the fuel pressure regulator 3. Pipe the actuator straight to the vac tube on the block 4. T in a boost gauge between actuator and block 5. Do as coops says to make sure i am on 9 psi 6. Bb chip should do the rest? 7. Up the fuel pressure a little just to be on the safe side? Am i getting close! Huge mega thanks !

[Justin..]

so , is the fpr plumbed into the fuel rail???

the fpr just needs vacuum feed from the inlet like then standard regulator, nothing to do with the turbo


I would take some pictures of my turbo set up but its in peices at the moment

[walters300]

:oops: yes there is 1 fuel pipe coming from it to the rail, all the silicone hoses are as i described, looking at the vac hoses i mentioned on the fpr they are not actually anything to do with the fpr! The solenoid thing is just bolted on to it! Gee i am one thick ? Do you agree with my summary above? Total legend!

[Justin..]

:shock:

I'm lost mate


Need pics so we can what you've ****ed up :P

[walters300]

:D :roll: is this diagram what i should have :oops: :wink:

[Justin..]

you should have a fuel feed and fuel return to the fpr

[Justin..]

and the vacuum to the actuator shouldnt be off the inlet, need to be before the throttle body

[walters300]

:oops: :P the plot thickens :lol: , i will make another go of it tomorrow and see what you think :roll: thanks mate

[walters300]

one last go for today 8)

[Chet T16]

I wish you were closer, those pics are wrecking my head!

[MAXIBOY]

too me this looks like you have both fpr connected still including the one in the fuel rail.. is this right...

[Glekke]

With that crappy paint pic... this is how I run mine...

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b286/Glekke/wtf_801mod.jpg

+ as maxi's post above, you should either use the standard fuel pressure regulator that's on the rail, or you should blank that one and use an aftermarket FPR... The picture is with an aftermarket FPR

[walters300]

by the time im finished with my diagrams you will be jumping in the car and coming down from wicklow! Maxi boy as you can see i havent a fkin clue here, its been sat on the drive for over 2 years like this! With the dudes i have on this page right now i am very confident it will be perfect by sunday! If i can get my diagrams right ! Will have another go at it in the morning and post up a better diagram, thanks lads really happy its going to be right at last! This is going to be like a hard game of patience !

[walters300]

:D thanks bud thats a brilliant diagram! Will get on that tomorrow, thought my diagram was quite good to be honest with you... Yours is better though top man and thank you ...

[kj16v]

BTW There's nothing wrong with running the actuator hose from the inlet manifold. You can run it directly from the turbo outlet, just before the throttle body, or from the inlet. They have slightly different effects but none are wrong though.

Just out of interest. what make of fuel pressure regulator are you using?

[walters300]

:) i am going out now at 12 for an afternoon of happiness, will get all the details kj and take some pics etc etc, will post them up later for your approval

[walters300]

:roll: okay had a good look and the fuel set up is correct as per correct diagram above with only 1 fpr, i have set my vac pipes as above but i am confused to where the actuator pipe goes as there are only 2 outlets from the engine as i see it, the diagram shows it as coming off the turbo manifold? Will stick some wheels on while awaiting your advice, thanks duders nearly there!

[Justin..]

some turbo's have a fitting on the turbo for the actuator.

[Justin..]

like this


http://www.gpopshop.com/t25web.jpg


I have done this as close to the turbo as possible for the actuator feed

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/justin_2k5/20082009175.jpg

[walters300]

:excited: absolutely fantastic ,thankyou very much justin your a legend. i understand it now at last!!! where would i get one of those adaptors? ebay maybe... kj there is no brand on the actuator it just says fpr and a number. I will get one of those adaptors next week and stick it on and see where it is then........ a huge thank you to you all for being extremely patient and at last i can see how its supposed to work.. :D

[walters300]

#-o just one more thing :oops: i take it the second pic is the piece that attatches to the throttle body as thats where my T off for the dump/ recirc valve is :wink:

[walters300]

:D one more diagram to explain! :shock:

[Justin..]

Above pic is fine, though I was told by a few turbo peeps to have the actuator feed as close to the turbo outlet as possible.

I got my fitting from a hydraulics shop (Pirtek)

Mine dumpvalve is in a different place

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/justin_2k5/30888_430231065451_510760451_556235.jpg

[walters300]

:( my install is utter shite :x thanks for showing me the way justin :wink: I am going to rip it all out and start again me thinks, the engine bay in yours looks ace and thanks for the pic to show and explain the right way, will make a list of the bits i need and get it done properly in the next fortnight.. i paid a couple of guys 1400 quid to remove the engine and get it ready for an engine shop to rebuild and then put it back in. TOTAL MUPPETS!! ah well its only taken me 2 years to get over it :D and with your help it will be in the same league as yours hopefully, i will keep you informed and maybe pick your brains some more :wink:

[Justin..]

There's no set right way, thats just the way I did mine.

[walters300]

your way is better than my way so i will go with that :wink:

[Justin..]

lol


are you running a charge cooler or a front mounted intercooler?

[kj16v]

:.. kj there is no brand on the actuator it just says fpr and a number. I will get one of those adaptors next week and stick it on and see where it is then... :D

If it's one of these, chuck it. They don't regulate shit! They come in all different colours and none of them work. :roll:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ADJUSTABLE-FUEL-PRESSURE-REGULATOR-1-1-RATIO-UNIVERSAL-/120590947110?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item1c13c7d326

[walters300]

its a front mount and that bit is ok, i have done a good survey of the pipework and thats ok too,I need better joint straps and i will take the piece nearest the turbo and get guys at work to weld in a 6mm pipe point to hook up to the turbo actuator, that should do it, might get a new actuator as it looks crap and there is no adjustment screw on it to fine tune the boost like coops mentioned, can i buy one set to 9psi? also think a replacement 21 map sensor i bought on ebay as i managed to break the other one :roll: is the wrong one so i will get another one of those, a guy was selling one and i asked him the numbers and mine were different. so fk knows whats on there now :roll: kj the boost valve is an fse one and i have a new spare one which i might stick on for peace of mind. must get one of those gauges too. i assume that goes inline with the fuel pipe going to the rail? where can i get one... any ideas? so in summary i need to
1. install 6mm port near turbo and hook up turbo vac pipe.
2. better joint straps.
3. new actuator and set to 9 psi with coops method.
4. new 21 map sensor.
5. new boost valve and install gauge.
6. clean injectors as its been idle ( maybe use the halfords juice although probably shite)
7. set up recirc valve for 9 psi ????????????? and install massive air box to attempt gaining a noise something like itb's. move battery to boot for sace
thats just the turbo bit :roll: i have really gone for gold on other areas too! thats another post for another day..... and some more diagrams :P

[Justin..]

I've been told to get a fixed weber 3.5 bar regulator

[walters300]

I will try and get it working with the fse one i think as it sounds like i dont really need it for low boost, and this is being finished on pocket money as i blew the budget for it a long time ago!! there is instructions in the new one so hopefully i can work it out.. :roll: fingers crossed it should be running sweet within a week or two, what do you think of getting another actuator? :wink:

[MAXIBOY]

here are the part numbers equivalent to the r21t map sensor...GENERAL MOTORS 12 569 241
GENERAL MOTORS 16 040 609
GENERAL MOTORS 9 160 331
ISUZU 8-12569-241-0
ISUZU 8-16040-609-0
OPEL 12 38 572
OPEL 12 38 786
OPEL 45 00 031
OPEL 62 35 695
RENAULT 77 00 267 701
VOLVO 1336384

[walters300]

:bowdown: you just saved me another £40! as the one i was going to buy isnt listed there, top man ! would renault be able to get me one i wonder? probably 150 plus vat or something silly :roll: or i could search ebay for those numbers maybe.......

[MAXIBOY]

might find the opel ones are much cheaper than renault ones..

but a scrap yard search so find one..

or a said e bay.. vauxhall volvo breakers..

[walters300]

brilliant :D will get on that and see what i can find, so happy i know how to fix it, looking forward to a mega blast :D this car used to put a huge smile on my face before i spent a fortune and rebuilt it and let others put it back together, DIY is the way to go :P well with a lot of help of course........ thanks guys :yourock:

[kj16v]

Here's some advice to help you save time and money



1. install 6mm port near turbo and hook up turbo vac pipe. Okay but not necessary. Taking boost pressure reference from inlet manifold is fine.

3. new actuator and set to 9 psi with coops method. If your actuator is non adjustable then it would be cheaper and easier to fit a manual boost controller (search ebay)

5. new boost valve and install gauge. FSE do two types of pressure regulator; a normal 1:1 ratio regulator, and a 1:6 ratio "Boost Valve". If you've got a Boost valve sell it. It's no good for a turbo conversion.
Here's a link to the FSE catalogue. The 1:1 fpr is on page 39 and the Boost Valve is on page 41

http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/Fuel%20Pressure%20Gauges%20&%20Accessories.pdf

6. clean injectors as its been idle ( maybe use the halfords juice although probably shite) Good idea to have them cleaned but get them ultrasonic-cleaned on an ASNU machine. Don't bother using injector cleaner

7. set up recirc valve for 9 psi ????????????? and install massive air box to attempt gaining a noise something like itb's. Down to personal taste whether you use the recirc valve or not. Don't bother with the air box. It won't make it sound like ITBs!

[Laine_16v]

I've been told to get a fixed weber 3.5 bar regulator

ftw, thats exactly what i use :)

[walters300]

8) legendery stuff here lads thanks kj excellent advice! laine if you have one of those webbers it must be good so im getting one!

[Laine_16v]

Heres a pic of mine, its not strictly a FP regulator, as it has teh vacuum take off for rising pressure. But i dont run it connected, therefore it reads atmospheric pressure and will remain at 3.5bar all the time.

http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q51/laine_16v/Ressurect%20PNX/DSC00483.jpg

[Chet T16]

I ran one of my turbos with the vacuum off the standard fpr

[kj16v]

Heres a pic of mine, its not strictly a FP regulator, as it has teh vacuum take off for rising pressure. But i dont run it connected, therefore it reads atmospheric pressure and will remain at 3.5bar all the time.

Hey mate. If you run it referenced to atmospheric pressure the then the fuel pressure at the injectors will only be nearly 3.5 at WOT. At idle the fuel pressure will be something like 4 bar. If you ran a turbo at 1 bar boost the fuel pressure would drop to 2.5 bar!

[Laine_16v]

I dont understand why that would happen at all ^^^

PLease explain :D

[walters300]

#-o :newspaper: now this is going to the next level of what i need to understand, googling the webber as we speak, Thanks lads and i will try and take in the current topic :P

[walters300]

javascript:; is this the one? :wink:

[walters300]

:roll: cant copy the link for some reason! New boxed Weber / Magneti Marelli 'button' fuel pressure regulator - 3.5bar for use with any standard or aftermarket fuel injection system.

Marelli part number - 230016052057

9mm outlet diameter with O ring

Supplied with installation data sheet.

Free UK delivery - Orders placed before 1pm are usually despatched the same day.

[walters300]

:D 380134851007 type that in on ebay!! £3 per injector to clean... what do you think :)

[kj16v]

:roll: cant copy the link for some reason! New boxed Weber / Magneti Marelli 'button' fuel pressure regulator - 3.5bar for use with any standard or aftermarket fuel injection system...


Yeah that's the type. As long as it fits the Clio fuel rail. I don't know myself.



:D 380134851007 type that in on ebay!! £3 per injector to clean... what do you think :)

£3 is just for additional parts such as o-rings. It doesn't say the actual price of cleaning. You'll have to shop around a bit for the best price as they vary wildly. From £40 for four, to over £100.

I used this guy years ago and he gave a brilliant service at the time.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-Injector-Ultrasonic-cleaning-Testing-/160448818309?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item255b7eac85

[kj16v]

I dont understand why that would happen at all ^^^

PLease explain :D

The air pressure inside the inlet manifold varies greatly while driving. In a N/A engine it can go from almost a total vacuum on overrun, to almost atmospheric pressure at full throttle. In a turbo engine inlet air pressure can also go several times higher than atmosperic pressure

A, for example, 3 bar fuel pressure regulator works by pressurising the fuel in the injector rail at 3 bar above the pressure of whatever it is referenced to. So if you connect the reference port to the inlet manifold the fpr will keep fuel pressure 3 bar above manifold pressure no matter what the manifold pressure is.

If you leave the fpr's reference port open to atmospheric pressure, the fuel pressure will therefore be 3 bar above atmospheric pressure.

So say atmospheric pressure is 1 bar. Your engine is idling and the manifold pressure is 0.5 bar. the fuel pressure will be 3 bar above atmospheric pressure but 3.5 bar above inlet pressure . So if your car is set up to run at 3 bar, you'll be over-fueling by quite a lot.

Say you have a turbo making 1 bar of boost. The inlet pressure will be 1 bar above atmos pressure. So the fuel pressure will now only be 2 bar.
If your ecu mapped to run at 3 bar you're going to be in big piston melting trouble!

Say your now making 1000bhp at 4 bar of boost :!: The air pressure inside the manifold is now 4 times higher than atmos pressure. So you'll have fuel at 3 bar on one side of the injector and air at 4 bar on the other side of the injector. So now your fuel will be going backwards!

[MAXIBOY]

^^^

not if started it just left to vent open without a manifold connection as stated

[walters300]

walters300 wrote:
cant copy the link for some reason! New boxed Weber / Magneti Marelli 'button' fuel pressure regulator - 3.5bar for use with any standard or aftermarket fuel injection system...



Yeah that's the type. As long as it fits the Clio fuel rail. I don't know myself.


walters300 wrote:
380134851007 type that in on ebay!! £3 per injector to clean... what do you think


£3 is just for additional parts such as o-rings. It doesn't say the actual price of cleaning. You'll have to shop around a bit for the best price as they vary wildly. From £40 for four, to over £100.

I used this guy years ago and he gave a brilliant service at the time.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Fuel-Injector-Ultrasonic-cleaning-Testing-/160448818309?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item255b7eac8




Thanks kj for all the advice and help its much appreciated and everyone else. this car will now be working properly after 2 years of sitting on the drive, a weekend of posting from you guys has sorted it :wink: i will see if i can find a weber that isnt fixed to the rail like laine to make it easier, will have all the bits in a fortnight hopefully and i will let you know the outcome.

[Laine_16v]

^^^

not if started it just left to vent open without a manifold connection as stated

Thats what i was confused about, my FPR vacuum port isnt and has never been connected to anything. So i really cant get my head around why it would give anything other than 3.5bar? (or 4 bar?) it should always be fixed whatever it is.

But KJ said no, which is what confused me.

[Coops]

if its not connected then it will be same forever, its only with a variable rate vac feed to it that will cause the FPR to then regulate the fuel pressure up or down corresponding to the vac its receiving

[walters300]

schakal saves the day again.... 8) weber and map sensor en route :D

[kj16v]

^^^

not if started it just left to vent open without a manifold connection as stated

I'm not quite sure what you meant to type there.

If you connect the reference port to the inlet manifold the fuel will always stay at a constant pressure above manifold pressure and vary with regards to atmospheric pressure.
If you leave the reference port disconnected the fuel will remain at a constant pressure above atmospheric pressure but will vary with regards to manifold pressure, which means the injectors will inject more fuel at high manifold depression (eg. at idle) and less fuel at low manifold depression (AT WOT).

I think a few cars have regulators referenced to atmos pressure. The vast majority have them referenced to inlet pressure. Clios certainly do - and the ecus are mapped to run so. If you leave the ref. port open to atmos the ecu will only inject the correct amount of fuel at WOT. Under every other condition it will inject too much fuel.

A turbocharged car (and we are talking about a turbocharged car here, after all) HAS to have the fuel pressure referenced to inlet pressure or, as I already said, as the boost pressure rises fuel delivery will drop.

If you think about it, a fuel injector has two forces acting on it: Fuel pressure at one end and air pressure (inside the manifold) at the other pushing in the opposite direction. If you keep the fuel pressure static (by leaving the fpr ref. port open) and increase the air pressure in the inlet then less fuel will come out. And vice versa: inlet air pressure drops, more fuel comes out.
Whereas if you maintain a steady pressure relationship between the fuel line side of the injectors and the intake manifold, the same amount of fuel will come out of the injectors no matter what the inlet pressure is.

[walters300]

:) i have looked at the 2 fpr's i have and the new one is a malpassi and the other thats fitted has fse written on it, could i buy a gauge to bolt on and set it at 3.5? thanks guys :wink:

[kj16v]

Yes you can.

BTW could'ya post up a photo of your two fprs?

[walters300]

kj you will have to send me your paypal so i can forward you a few pints.. thanks for this bud. pics below :wink:

[kj16v]

Ah, thought so. I'm 99% sure the fpr you have fitted at the moment is an FSE Boost Valve. Sack it off and sell it some mug - er, I mean Ebay user.

Ha if only it were possible to email pints! :lol: Glad to help mate.

BTW when you get your gauge set the pressure as following: With the car running, unplug the manifold reference hose, set fuel pressue, then re-connect manifold hose. The indicated pressure should drop.

[walters300]

:P spot on mate thank you very much. it does say fse on it. will get the gauge next week and whip on the malpassi one and follow your instructions, any bits you need mate? might have something in the shed :wink:

[walters300]

:) i have been reading up a lot on turbos and i am getting there, as i am looking for lower speed thrills with maximum launch it seems my best option is to have a quick spool turbo, on the garret website there is a fantastic introduction to turbos with a comprehensive explanation and accurate mathematical calculations to obtain the correct turbine wheel size versus power / characteristics required, my question is why does the turbo only kick in at 2500 rpm, why not from 1k rpm?, if i go for a small quick spool set up can i reduce the activation point to get rid of lag and how do i do it?

[MAXIBOY]

needs the gases to spool. can reduce lag though by lots of ways..

anti-lags the best..

[walters300]

#-o whats that ? its not bad now but if it can be reduced that would be great, :wink:

[kj16v]

What you're talking about, and what most people get confused with, is the boost threshold. The boost threshold is the revs at which the turbo starts making boost. Lag, on the other hand, is the time it takes for the turbo to spool up again between gearshifts while its above the boost threshold.

With turbos, ss with any aspect of tuning, there are compromises. Generally a turbo that spools up quickly at low revs will strangle power at the top end. It will also be less efficient, which for a turbo means that it will basically restrict the engine's breathing and increase unwanted heat in the cylinder head and exhaust manifold. Conversely a turbo that is more efficient at high revs will make more power but it will tend to have a higher boost threshold. there are many other factors that determine power and boost threshold but this is one of them.

If your turbo starts spooling at 2500 rpm then that is about as low as realistically possible. You could do something silly like put a diesel turbocharger on there but the boost would die off very quickly and severely strangle power.

Anti lag is the term used for various methods of forcing a turbo to spool up before the engine is producing enough gasses to spin the turbo by itself. There are many ways of doing it. I won't go into them now because it will make a massive post! But as with all things there are compromises involved. Depending on the method used, the downsides can be: putting tremendous strain on the exhaust valves, manifold and turbo meaning the parts have to be made from special materials, putting tremendous strain on just the manifold and turbo, making the idle lumpy and hard to drive slowly, having to fit nitrous oxide.

The fact that you say your turbo spools at 2500 rpm suggests you are running a T25 or a T25 hybrid. The lag on a T25 is practically insignificant when fitted to a Valver. In this case anti lag would be utterly pointless. Anti lag is more suited cars fitted with BIG power turbos making like 400-500 bhp. For example if you were fitting a 500 bph 60-trim T34 with a .72 ar turbine housing, which started spooling at 5000 rpm THEN I'd recommend anti lag!

For your car just learn to drive above the boost threshold :D

[kj16v]

Forgot to mention if you want spool up even quicker than it is already, then a really cost effective method is to fit a manual boost controller. Loads on Ebay, such as this one: click (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TURBO-MANUAL-BOOST-CONTROLLER-NOT-BLEED-VALVE-/220537042109?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item33590834bd)

These are great little devices that work by keeping the wastegate shut until boost reaches the set level. These tend to lower the boost threshold by about 300 rpm, plus make the spool up a lot more aggressive. If you do fit one just be careful though. You can also increase the boost with these devices. Don't be tempted to raise the boost more than 1-2 psi without getting it mapped or you'll end in melted piston sorrow :lol:

[walters300]

:roll: shizer! now i am seeing this KJ, thank you very much for clearing that up for me, I will leave as is and do all the other bits you have told me, I have 2 weeks off and i am going to get loads done this week and it will hopefully be running good by the end of the fortnight, once i have it ready for paint i will be bringing it over, and i will call up with you to make sure its ok as i dont want another 3k bill ever for an engine rebuild, :wink: thanks mate

[kj16v]

No probs :)

[walters300]

:D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kcvh2CX4U2A . managed to get the other fpr on and tube the turbo from the first elbow and put on another map sensor, sounds a lot better with good idleing i think, also put in the boost gauge and boost controller (temp), will have to get the car looking half decent before i can take it out as i have a copper living a few doors up :x what do you think ? am i missing some vital piece still ? or does it sound ok. next on the list is to get an oil pressure gauge working and an afr gauge, :wink:

[walters300]

also put the dump valve back on for now as itworks better, ptsh, ptsh :wink:

[walters300]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrMlZ6-TmFM . emmisions improved after fitting the second fpr, it was spiting a lot of petrol out beforehand, is this good? :roll:

[kj16v]

You sure that's fuel? That looks more like condensation that's picked up soot from the exhaust, which is perfectly fine. It's one of the things Clios do. They release a lot of condensation when cold for some reason. Should dissapear after 10 mins driving.

Car sounds good. idle's ok and it doesn't bog down when revved.

[walters300]

:D yay! getting somewhere at last thanks to you guys. that sounds very plausable kj and its a straight through exhaust. thats the major problems sorted and i will get on with getting the fpr/ oil pressure working next, you mentioned (KNOCK). i have heard this is a serious engine breaker, how could i protect against that? :wink:

[kj16v]

Have you car mapped by a competent tuner with the right equipment (ahem, hello)! :wink:

In the meantime, run about 8-9 psi of boost and use Super-unleaded. The engine is most likely to suffer detonation (knock) at around 4500 rpm on full-throttle. So at least until it's been diagnosed for knock and air fuel ratio, don't go full throttle for more than a second or two.

[walters300]

:thumbsup: i will get the other jobs sorted and ready for paint, and bring it over to your good self for final tweaking and bomb proofing, thanks KJ i will be in touch soon.... before christmas hopefully 8)

[-jo-]

just looked at you're second movie. Sorry to say but that gauge tell's you nothing. You have to measure under load, not on iddle.

Nice project ;)

grtz from Belgium

[walters300]

there is a bit to go yet but i am very happy just to have the basic idle function correct and all hoses etc, when i get the car looking half decent i will plague you all again :D I am going to strip all underneath and rust seal everywhere first though as i dont want the rot worm to kill it :wink:

[-jo-]

Buy the innovate LC1 kit. Works brilliant, wideband and very accurate.

[walters300]

:wink: thanks for that i will have a look at it, i want a gauge for every possible early warning system! one step at a time gently gently to get it hopefully perfect..