Wobba
24-01-2010, 23:20
Well, today I fitted the AST solid top mounts to my AVO’s.
Everything went to plan with removal of the old setup. Jack car up, take off wheels, remove struts. Checking over the AVO’s to make sure they were fine I could see no major issues except for a split rubber piston cover, which I jury-rigged to be effective again, and very slight evidence of fluid loss on both pistons, nothing to worry about:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00072.jpg
The problems started to occur as I started to build up the suspension with the new mounts. Check adjustable heights of both struts, refit the springs, place new AST top hats onto springs...my first problem:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00076.jpg
I find I cannot get the top hats to sit on the spring correctly; the inner lip is too thick. I decided to put them on as best I could and hope the weight of the car would settle them in with use. You could possibly jam them on with tools but I didn’t want to try it at this stage. If they remain like this when I next inspect them then I may try this or contact AST myself.
Now, next time I fit these I will put the two anodised parts of the mount on the top of the suspension turret first and screw them down so they are secure and already in position. This way you save risking them not being in place correctly so the top mount ‘sleeve’ is not incorrectly positioned when you lower the car to the ground.
I fit the first built strut in the turret; here is a pic of the underside:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00077.jpg
I then locate the top into the turret hole correctly and fit the top anodised part, bolting it down:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00078.jpg
Please note the AST supplied washers are quite rough on one side, these will damage the anodised finish, so use the rounded off side face down to avoid this.
Another gripe is the securing nut design. It’s a 21 or 22mm nut, so you need a big socket, but the problem is there is very limited space as you are only left with the lip of the nut as you tighten it, meaning a socket will damage the anodised surface straight away. I used mole grips, but you have to be super careful not to damage the nice orange, and careful as I was I did scratch them a tiny bit :(
Ok, so suspension bolted in and stub axle bolts on, I do the other side. As above, rinse and repeat.
Wheels on.
Ok, so adjustment time. Initially I set mine with a little negative camber and some positive castor:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00082.jpg
To adjust them you need the car jacked up to take the strain off the mounts. Slightly loosen the three small bolts and simply twist the top part of the mount, watch the wheel as you do this, you will see it move about with more castor and more or less camber, interesting to watch how they change the geometry so easily.
With my initial settings, I did my wheel nuts up and off I went on a quick test drive. With these settings you could feel the car behave differently, it’s not a vast change but the dead-ahead feel and self-centre on the steering wheel was a little odd, this is due to the altered castor. Cornering was better though and it felt firmer.
One other thing I noticed straight away with a lowered car is the wheels were scrubbing the inner arches a lot more. It seems to have dropped the car even lower by a tad, though I didn't want to go lower due to previous handling gripes, the car felt pretty darn good even this low, normally I'd have been having a lot harder time but the car actually felt better this way than slightly higher with the normal suspension mounts.
Heading home, I readjusted them. This time I set to max camber with zero castor. You can see the negative camber being dialled in as you twist, but it’s not as obvious as camber adjustment bolts. I also raised the ride height a tiny bit on the passenger side and forgot to do the driver side. Also, when I jacked the car up I think the top hat on the springs got knocked out of its rather imperfect seating position on the driver side spring.
Adjustment done, I went out again. It was getting late and dark now with very few cars on the road, so I could drive all over the place and not bother anyone. Once I got into my stride and started giving it a proper work out, the cars I did meet on any twisty sections (and who foolishly tried to keep up) soon experienced first hand the legend of the Williams. Destroyed isn't the word.
The cornering was MUCH better and the car felt more stable that that of the solid mounts and new adjustments. The main issue I was having now was the rattling noise from the driver’s side over road imperfections. I am pretty sure this is due the top hat for the spring not being in place properly, but despite that the car felt really good, a lot less understeer when getting on the power mid corner, felt like it was really digging into the corners even more that before!
Another issue I discovered when I took a look at the top securing nut was that due to the nature of the design, the securing nut fouls the inside of the inner anodised mount as there is a bit of flex from the rose jointed rubber bit allowing the nut to move on an axis as the strut moves, making contact with the mount. Leaves nice indentations. Have to keep my eye on that as it could loosen the nut.
Do they do what they say on the tin? Yes. The car feels better, firmer, and I have lost that slight wobbly feeling from the less secure standard top mounts mated to the ‘sitting too high’ AVO coilovers. I wanted to keep driving about like a loony but as this was only a test drive I needed to get home and give it all a check over. The rattling noise had settled, but I am sure they are not in their correct position still.
I will be making notes as time goes by and making some recommendations to AST on the design shortly, as they can be improved. I am not happy about the top hat mounts on the springs or the way the nut sits, or the size of it.
I’ll update my findings at the end of the week, but for now I am quite happy with them, and I have yet to explore the full handling benefits. Can't wait :)
Everything went to plan with removal of the old setup. Jack car up, take off wheels, remove struts. Checking over the AVO’s to make sure they were fine I could see no major issues except for a split rubber piston cover, which I jury-rigged to be effective again, and very slight evidence of fluid loss on both pistons, nothing to worry about:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00072.jpg
The problems started to occur as I started to build up the suspension with the new mounts. Check adjustable heights of both struts, refit the springs, place new AST top hats onto springs...my first problem:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00076.jpg
I find I cannot get the top hats to sit on the spring correctly; the inner lip is too thick. I decided to put them on as best I could and hope the weight of the car would settle them in with use. You could possibly jam them on with tools but I didn’t want to try it at this stage. If they remain like this when I next inspect them then I may try this or contact AST myself.
Now, next time I fit these I will put the two anodised parts of the mount on the top of the suspension turret first and screw them down so they are secure and already in position. This way you save risking them not being in place correctly so the top mount ‘sleeve’ is not incorrectly positioned when you lower the car to the ground.
I fit the first built strut in the turret; here is a pic of the underside:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00077.jpg
I then locate the top into the turret hole correctly and fit the top anodised part, bolting it down:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00078.jpg
Please note the AST supplied washers are quite rough on one side, these will damage the anodised finish, so use the rounded off side face down to avoid this.
Another gripe is the securing nut design. It’s a 21 or 22mm nut, so you need a big socket, but the problem is there is very limited space as you are only left with the lip of the nut as you tighten it, meaning a socket will damage the anodised surface straight away. I used mole grips, but you have to be super careful not to damage the nice orange, and careful as I was I did scratch them a tiny bit :(
Ok, so suspension bolted in and stub axle bolts on, I do the other side. As above, rinse and repeat.
Wheels on.
Ok, so adjustment time. Initially I set mine with a little negative camber and some positive castor:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/DSC00082.jpg
To adjust them you need the car jacked up to take the strain off the mounts. Slightly loosen the three small bolts and simply twist the top part of the mount, watch the wheel as you do this, you will see it move about with more castor and more or less camber, interesting to watch how they change the geometry so easily.
With my initial settings, I did my wheel nuts up and off I went on a quick test drive. With these settings you could feel the car behave differently, it’s not a vast change but the dead-ahead feel and self-centre on the steering wheel was a little odd, this is due to the altered castor. Cornering was better though and it felt firmer.
One other thing I noticed straight away with a lowered car is the wheels were scrubbing the inner arches a lot more. It seems to have dropped the car even lower by a tad, though I didn't want to go lower due to previous handling gripes, the car felt pretty darn good even this low, normally I'd have been having a lot harder time but the car actually felt better this way than slightly higher with the normal suspension mounts.
Heading home, I readjusted them. This time I set to max camber with zero castor. You can see the negative camber being dialled in as you twist, but it’s not as obvious as camber adjustment bolts. I also raised the ride height a tiny bit on the passenger side and forgot to do the driver side. Also, when I jacked the car up I think the top hat on the springs got knocked out of its rather imperfect seating position on the driver side spring.
Adjustment done, I went out again. It was getting late and dark now with very few cars on the road, so I could drive all over the place and not bother anyone. Once I got into my stride and started giving it a proper work out, the cars I did meet on any twisty sections (and who foolishly tried to keep up) soon experienced first hand the legend of the Williams. Destroyed isn't the word.
The cornering was MUCH better and the car felt more stable that that of the solid mounts and new adjustments. The main issue I was having now was the rattling noise from the driver’s side over road imperfections. I am pretty sure this is due the top hat for the spring not being in place properly, but despite that the car felt really good, a lot less understeer when getting on the power mid corner, felt like it was really digging into the corners even more that before!
Another issue I discovered when I took a look at the top securing nut was that due to the nature of the design, the securing nut fouls the inside of the inner anodised mount as there is a bit of flex from the rose jointed rubber bit allowing the nut to move on an axis as the strut moves, making contact with the mount. Leaves nice indentations. Have to keep my eye on that as it could loosen the nut.
Do they do what they say on the tin? Yes. The car feels better, firmer, and I have lost that slight wobbly feeling from the less secure standard top mounts mated to the ‘sitting too high’ AVO coilovers. I wanted to keep driving about like a loony but as this was only a test drive I needed to get home and give it all a check over. The rattling noise had settled, but I am sure they are not in their correct position still.
I will be making notes as time goes by and making some recommendations to AST on the design shortly, as they can be improved. I am not happy about the top hat mounts on the springs or the way the nut sits, or the size of it.
I’ll update my findings at the end of the week, but for now I am quite happy with them, and I have yet to explore the full handling benefits. Can't wait :)