View Full Version : LSD's
Are they worth it? Anyone have much experience of them?
yes mate..
me and tommo and a few others run them..i love mine..so much more grip..but they are not cheap..
MatBrown
13-07-2009, 22:49
I'll let you know.
Mat.
Cool :)
I know there are different types. Do they restrict top speed in any way? How easy are they to fit?
Gripper plate diff - best one really for the money although does make some clunking noises on the rally car, which means its fine. Only restricts top speed if you get a higher final drive gear which are 450. Mine does 114 in top at 7k.
850 diff
500 Gearbox fitment and refub box
200 remove and replace
Approx cost i guess
Best mod i have doe to the car..
Interesting! Thanks a lot for the info.
Makes sense with your car, but mine I wouldnt want a limited top speed.
I guess it's not a job I could do easily...
yeah tryed some, i thought i was a paratrooper jumping out of a plane on a raid over france, but turns out i actually jumped out the 2nd floor window, lucky there was a bouncy castle below LOL
Hmmmm, you think LSD would improve my driving then Richy?
Hmmmm, you think LSD would improve my driving then Richy?
doubtfull! lol
but one of them magic diffs might help though.......
on a serious note, i havent driven a fwd car with a gripper diff but have been a passenger in one driven hard on track, and from a passenger point of view the front end certainly seemed to pull itself around v well
i have driven a few fwd cars running the quaiffe ATB diffs, and you cant hear anything at all compared to a gripper with them, drove very nicely and helped although hard to tell exaclty how much as they were fitted as std so no open diff to compare against.
Ive only driven a 172 with a quaiffe, and honestly couldnt tell it apart from std...twas shit.
Driven a couple of clios with plate LSD's, on the other hand, they do literally pull you into a corner. Very impressive.
For the money, Gripper would be what I go for on a road car. They are bottom of the scale price wise, but seam to do the job nicely...less adjustment with them, but unless you wanna pay £2k for a sadev diff thats kinda irrelavent.
Ive only driven a 172 with a quaiffe, and honestly couldnt tell it apart from std...twas s**t.
Driven a couple of clios with plate LSD's, on the other hand, they do literally pull you into a corner. Very impressive.
For the money, Gripper would be what I go for on a road car. They are bottom of the scale price wise, but seam to do the job nicely...less adjustment with them, but unless you wanna pay £2k for a sadev diff thats kinda irrelavent.
Regards options there is very little compared to a 205 say. When i looked:-
Quaife - 850
Gripper - 850
Bacci - 1200
Avanti - 1600
There the only really options (That i could find), the Bacci / Avanti is basically the same as the gripper and not worth twice the price. Gripper is bottom of the scale but not on performance as i dont see why that the Avanti / Bacci one is any better.
Mines been great so far but can be a handful with no PS.!
Avanti is better as it has larger clutch plates and more ramp and pre-load adjustment.
For those wanting to tune their car to the nth degree, this level of adjustment is well worth twice the price alone.
Sounds like a gripper might be fun then.
Good places to buy? I guess it would be a gearbox completely off job?
AndyFielder
15-07-2009, 14:42
http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/psdiffsgripper.html ?? just came up in google
Avanti is better as it has larger clutch plates and more ramp and pre-load adjustment.
For those wanting to tune their car to the nth degree, this level of adjustment is well worth twice the price alone.
There is the same level of ramp options "adjustment" isnt the word as ramp angles are fixed and preload which is the adjustment part as the avanti. Regards plate size im not sure.
So not worth twice the price,,,,as you have very similar if not that same adjustment as the Avanti and they are just as relaible. The avanti one is a copy of the BACCI one and 50 more expensive..
This was from the guy that does all the engines and gearboxes for Skip Brown, plus all the C2 /R2 cars....he looks after the Pink rallycar.
Sounds like a gripper might be fun then.
Good places to buy? I guess it would be a gearbox completely off job?
Gearbox out and i would refurb it at the same time.
Call John MacMahon at Gripper differentials, i have put a load of people his way so mention me (Pink rally clio) and may give you some discount. He is really helpful.
Useuallt have great deal on in Jan at the Autosport show if you can wait that long..!
:lol: No need to justify your purchase to me mate.
And of course ramp angles are classed as adjustment...
Avanti use ZF differentials, I dont believe they are a copy of anything.
Plate size is smaller, so likely the clutch pack wont last as long, or have the same torque rating...but they seem to be doing fine on the clio scene.
Other areas to consider which will account for price difference are materials, treatments, machining tolerances, all account for overall quality and longevity. Im not saying Gripper is necessarliy less quality, but there is probably a good reason why a Sadev unit is 3 times the price.
:lol: No need to justify your purchase to me mate.
And of course ramp angles are classed as adjustment...
Avanti use ZF differentials, I dont believe they are a copy of anything.
Plate size is smaller, so likely the clutch pack wont last as long, or have the same torque rating...but they seem to be doing fine on the clio scene.
Other areas to consider which will account for price difference are materials, treatments, machining tolerances, all account for overall quality and longevity. Im not saying Gripper is necessarliy less quality, but there is probably a good reason why a Sadev unit is 3 times the price.
Not justifying anything just trying to give as much info relating to the posted question..Sadev are top draw and are used lots in the Peogeut world too, far better than Quaife which he siad they have had issues with in particular their sequential box.
Oh i mentioned clutches and only lasting 5-6 event on a 230hp sprint car, now on that point he said thats definately not right (product or fitment?).... when he has used helix paddles they last for at least 2 seasons (on a rally car and they do more starts and more milage, generally more abuse ) usually more on similar and more powerful fwd cars.
Anyways off topic....
http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/psdiffsgripper.html ?? just came up in google
Thanks!
Ok thanks EVO. I can wait that long, I wont be doing it for a while anyway as I need to save up, sort the rust first, and couple of other things first and I may have this 'ere megane 714 head worked on first too...
http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/psdiffsgripper.html ?? just came up in google
Thanks!
thats the one i used and cliolord has had issues with..see other post
http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/psdiffsgripper.html ?? just came up in google
Thanks!
thats the one i used and cliolord has had issues with..see other post
Mine was fitted locally and never had issues, Cliolords sounded like a build problem rather than anything wrong with the diff..
yes but rebuilt at gearboxman
Can someone fully explain the benefit of fitting an LSD? I mean, I understand what they do by splitting the drive to the wheels, but how do they 'know' how to do it?
Just did a quick search on wiki for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_slip_differential
Shame you live so far away from me mate, I'd give you a go in mine
so you could assess whether it's a worth while mod
cliokongen
11-08-2009, 21:18
Group buy?
Well I was personally considering getting one but not for a bit as it involves quite a bit of sorting out and money, plus I need to get some tyres sorted and my Meggy 714 head done too, so may be a few months away, probably next year.
I'd be interested to see if we can get a discount though!
stevie_b
12-08-2009, 09:10
Let's meet at Autosport show for a group buy discussion with them then? (gives you until Jan) :lol:
hehe, could do! En-masse harassment for a group buy Gripper may work!
I have recommended lots of people for this diff to John at Gripper and know him well. If you want to get me to ask for a group buy let me know. He does every year offer Autosport discounts but if you want it sooner let me know and i will enquire.. If you want me to that is.....as you might want to save your pennies first.!
cliokongen
12-08-2009, 13:41
Count me in.... :-)
Hey EVO, I'll PM you but this year is the year I go a bit mental on the Williams. How may Gripper diffs would construe a bulk buy and therefore worth a discount?
A group buy for this kind of mod will be limited due to the overall cost limitation to most people, not like my solid top mount group buy, but if we could get a discount I would put my name down.
Personally I don't think my 'box needs a rebuild, but if the fitter needs to take it all apart (I don't think they do?) then a rebuild may as well be done. Had a replacement gearbox from Renault at a massive cost only 5 years ago you see...
I think when I spoke to them last year it was minimum of 5.
just check guys you can still run the standard drive speedo cable. Tommo's cannot.
MatBrown
10-01-2010, 11:48
Yeah, i'm sure you can now.
Mat.
just check guys you can still run the standard drive speedo cable. Tommo's cannot.
That's interesting.. Why would that be?
The early ones didnt utilise a worm drive for the std speedo.
stevie_b
10-01-2010, 12:33
Autosport show is next weekend. Anyone want to meet up there and go and have a chat with them at their stand and see what discounts we can arrange then/what bulk size would be needed?
The early ones didnt utilise a worm drive for the std speedo.
Ahh ok, so we would be fine with the new design then I guess.
Stevie and Stan, maybe you should get together and discuss this hehe. I will start up a group buy thread and see if anyone on C16valver wants in as well and maybe CS too...
busterhymes
10-01-2010, 13:02
a quick question is there any point in installing a LSD on what is prominently a car used on the road rather than motorsport apps :?:
Autosport show is next weekend. Anyone want to meet up there and go and have a chat with them at their stand and see what discounts we can arrange then/what bulk size would be needed?
Birmingham NEC. Been a while since I have been there :) It could be a fun day out and an excuse to drive like a loon.
Usually does a deal at the show, mention me (guy with the pink clio rallycar) too may give you some extra discount as i have recommended a few people... :wink:
Usually does a deal at the show, mention me (guy with the pink clio rallycar) too may give you some extra discount as i have recommended a few people... :wink:
Well, it's certainly an option. If we could get enough names down before then we could command a bigger discount. I've got the money now, but would rather wait till payday :)
busterhymes
10-01-2010, 13:49
a quick question is there any point in installing a LSD on what is prominently a car used on the road rather than motorsport apps :?:
:?:
a quick question is there any point in installing a LSD on what is prominently a car used on the road rather than motorsport apps :?:
:?:
Yes and no. Best to ask someone like Tommo who has his fitted to his daily car. If you don't push your car or spend most of your life in traffic jams then, no, it is not neccessary. This is a pretty hardcore conversion and some people may enjoy the scrabbling about and challenge that torque steer brings with it, if so, leave as standard.
stevie_b
10-01-2010, 13:56
OK. If you can let me know the rough numbers that might be expected by the end of the week then I will definitely have a chat with them about it at Autosport (weather permitting, as I couldn't get there at the moment but hopefully the snow will clear by next week)
OK. If you can let me know the rough numbers that might be expected by the end of the week then I will definitely have a chat with them about it at Autosport (weather permitting, as I couldn't get there at the moment but hopefully the snow will clear by next week)
Well, I have posted a tentative group buy enquiry on the main forum, so if you keep an eye out there you will get an idea of numbers mate.
a quick question is there any point in installing a LSD on what is prominently a car used on the road rather than motorsport apps :?:
:?:
yes... :D
OK. If you can let me know the rough numbers that might be expected by the end of the week then I will definitely have a chat with them about it at Autosport (weather permitting, as I couldn't get there at the moment but hopefully the snow will clear by next week)
Well, I have posted a tentative group buy enquiry on the main forum, so if you keep an eye out there you will get an idea of numbers mate.
It would seem that CS are also doing a group buy. They are quoting £868.25 all in to keep the OE crown wheel, or there are options of different ratios, but that is more money and I dont want to change mine. Not sure if they are the only people that can machine the crown, not even sure we have to do it tbh. Still looking into it.
See what you can find out!
a quick question is there any point in installing a LSD on what is prominently a car used on the road rather than motorsport apps :?:
:?:
Yes and no. Best to ask someone like Tommo who has his fitted to his daily car. If you don't push your car or spend most of your life in traffic jams then, no, it is not neccessary. This is a pretty hardcore conversion and some people may enjoy the scrabbling about and challenge that torque steer brings with it, if so, leave as standard.
Personally I wouldn't as it would be a big expense for minimal gain as you would seldom be able to exploit the full potential of the LSD on the road. Saying that though I do love mine and wouldn't want it any other way now, handling and traction is very good, I was lucky to have one already fitted to my williams when I bought it. Can be a bit of a handful at times though...
as above..i wouldn't drive my car without one but depends on engine spec and use..
Guys.
Is £605 + VAT a good price for 5 people for the diff?
On top of that apparently you need to modify the crown wheel, which they will do for £150+ VAT. I think other specialists would be capable of doing it as well.
The second option is to get separate interchangeable crown wheel which makes it easier to change the gear ratios, that's £450 separately.
Also, they say that it may be necessary to either use a valver passenger driveshaft OR they can friction weld a Williams shaft 10mm shorter for you at minimal cost (like £30).
So, all in for a diff which will bolt straight in its £868.25 plus any work you need for the shaft and plus fitting.
He sells them at this price at the autosport show every year thats what i paid for mine.... but i got a new final drive too 1250 all in.
Johns a really helpfull guy and recommend the product, ran faultless since i had mine fitted. :D
when are you planning the buy for? and ive got a valver will my shafts fit streight away or would then need mods?
when are you planning the buy for? and ive got a valver will my shafts fit streight away or would then need mods?
Mate, go see the group buy thread. I don't think you would need the driveshaft modded if you have the valver setup.
yeah i saw the groupbuy ad after i posted sorry
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