driveshaft length

[summeh]

On the later f7r meganes (i think) the drive shafts are exactly the same length. I've noticed this on the 182 as well.

They have a fixed shaft going from the diff (drivers side) to just behind the engine block, then the cv joint/drive shaft coming out from this. Resulting in it being the same length as the passenger side.

I've heard this is to help prevent torque steer and thus give better handling.

I'm guessing this mod could be done quite easily on the williams. As far as I can tell the housing is bolted to the back of the engine. If the later(?) meganes had this set up, then a 714 (or even 710) block should be able to provide this? Or perhaps there is even provision on the 700 block?

Worth it?

[MAXIBOY]

yes if you get torque steer..later meganes R26 also have special anti torque steer hubs been looking into these as well..

[summeh]

so it could be a simple case of bolting the right driveshafts to the block?

I need to take a closer look at how the 182 does it, but im sure its bolted to the back of the block.

[MAXIBOY]

yeah thats why the standard willy has the remote housing anyway to minimise torque steer too.

[summeh]

yeah thats why the standard willy has the remote housing anyway to minimise torque steer too.

But its not bolted to anything? Not sure if it makes any difference.

[MAXIBOY]

no mate but yet to have it fail..are they longer then on the 182 as valver/willy shafts are not identical

[summeh]

Not sure.

I suffer from torque steer sometimes, putting down more power than standard though.

[richy]

the later megane f7r have normal driveshafts like the williams but longer, i had the set off my old T reg coupe only few week ago, also the block has no place for a mount that i noticed.

mine had the f7r 714 engine were the oil pressure sender doesnt point upwards but out backwards at a 45degree angle towards the downpipe/manifold joint if that makes sense!

not the best pic tbh!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/c20rfs/P1010114.jpg

cant remember the 182s being like that but i havent looked at it(no need its reliable lol) for ages, but i know what u mean, iirc the megane 2's had them on diesels, also the laguna 2 and a few scenics etc

[MAXIBOY]

be worth an investigation i think...

need 172 driveshaft lengths really..

[Wobba]

What are the length's of Williams driveshafts exactly?

[schakal]

be worth an investigation i think...

need 172 driveshaft lengths really..


cool, pm and let me know when its done :D :P 8)

[summeh]

just been looking at the mounting arrangement on the 182, will take some pics and post up later today, looks like a funky mount that could fit into the standard bolt holes on the back of the block though. (nothing else uses these holes).

[Justin..]

im interested in this 8)

[summeh]

ive just been taking some pics... the remote housing has quite a beefy mount go all the way around it, this is then bolted to the bottom back of the engine block using 2 mounting holes. I think the f71 has one of these mounting holes but is missing the other... wouldn't be rocket science to weld it on.

If people can post pics of the rear of an f7r and f4r's, i'll illustrate the holes.

[summeh]

pics

[summeh]

those are the same big chunky bolt holes as on the f7r 714 block that richy posted up, 99% sure of it :)

[Justin..]

I'd say so yes!

They're also there on my F7R 700

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a341/justin_2k5/P230408_1932-1.jpg


Don't think I could run the set up though due to the oil return from the turbo :(

Also my down pipe is very tight through there :(

[richy]

williams f7r 710 block(upside down lol), ive circled the 2 bolt hole points, the green circle one is where the exh manifold bracket normally mounts too, red circle is blank normally, but ive compared to the f74 714 engine and there both identical positions etc


http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y110/c20rfs/engine1.jpg

[Justin..]

An issue using it on the mk1 could be the exhaust downpipe :? where it goes under the subframe it's already tight in that area ....

[MAXIBOY]

might be worth a look to get equal length shafts though.. :D

[summeh]

Cheers richy, yep thought so, I've got a 714 block fitted to my williams and I seem to remember being told the 714's ran the same kind of remote housing bolted to the back of the block (in the meganes).

Justine i dont think it would cause any issues with standard exhaust, there is plenty of space. the exhaust manifold bracket could be done away with, or just modded slightly... im sure it can be made to fit. also this is normally just dead space, i dont think it would interfere with your new manifold/downpipe. its very out of the way.

So all the holes look good and in place... I wonder if we can just use 172/182 driveshafts... bet we can

Anyone want to pay me to take them off the 182 and try to fit them on the williams? lol. 8)

[Justin..]

1*2 shafts don't fit the Williams suspension unless you use the corresponding wishbones due to the wider track.

[summeh]

your saying a williams have wider track than a 172/182?

What are the figures on both?

Is that the only reason your stating... be good to get some facts in place if you have any figures :)

[Justin..]

Oh, you also need the cliosport stub axles, which need modding to fit willy struts. I'm trying to find the bearing sizes of the mk2 RS hubs though as it'd be good to use the rs hubs in the 16v/willy stub axles

[summeh]

I dont see why stub axles have to come in to it... they are separate from the hubs... you could get 182 hubs pressed in to williams stub axles. Assuming they are the same size press... can't see they would change that?

[Justin..]

the splined bit on outer cv's are a different size hence why you need the rs hubs /stub axles, hence why i said i was looking for the bearing size of the rs
hubs as it would be good tu use them in the mk1 hubs :P

[richy]

the 172/182 is wider track then the williams.

[summeh]

sorry must have missed that justin.

[Justin..]

it's a mod I'd like to fit on mine as the drive shafts are more common .. Not that I'm planing to break any just yet :lol:

[summeh]

so hopefully you could just use mk2 hubs and driveshafts...

Seems like a more superior set up to me.

[MAXIBOY]

except mk2 hubs are well heavy iirc..

might upgrade to R26 hubs..

pics to follow..

[summeh]

:)

[MAXIBOY]

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/123maxiboy/IMG_0067.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/123maxiboy/IMG_0068.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/123maxiboy/IMG_0069.jpg

http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e15/123maxiboy/IMG_0070.jpg

there you go..i believe ford RS focus...

[summeh]

:?

[MAXIBOY]

the idea behind them is they reduced kingpin offfset by more than half thus reducing the feeling of or reducing torque steer..

http://magazines.drivers-republic.com/driversrepublic/prizefight042/?fm=2

[MAXIBOY]

page 13 in.. :D

[summeh]

so these off the r26 or a ford focus RS?

[MAXIBOY]

these are R26R but they have a similar set..

[Matty86]

Interesting thread!

It's something i've noticed in my 172 travels

Firstly, yes, the 1*2 track is wider than a williams - I think there may even be various between specs (182, cup etc..) as they have different wishbone part numbers iirc.

A couple of lads on cliosport have fitted the mk2 track to the mk1. They've used a combination of williams ARB (mk2 one has a kink in it, meaning it doesn't fit), mk2 wishbones, mk2 hubs (machined down to fit williams shocks - mk2 hubs are 'fatter' and have smaller bolt holes iirc) and mk2 brakes obviously :D. They've used 172 driveshafts iirc. but they must be the earlier shafts that have the same 'conventional' setup as the mk1.

with the track being wider and williams shocks being used, camber is introduced a bit, so correction is needed for that too (struts or top mounts etc..)

f0xy and Whitely on cliosport are the two who have done it, i'll point them in the direction of this thread.

With the track being that little bit wider, I believe f0xy has had some issues with his front wings hitting the tyres. I run a fairly low mk1 with a Williams track and it's not something I currently worry about. Would hate to have to raise it :P


This driveshaft thing is something i'm interested in, as it can only be good. I can't say i get much torque steer (F4R's fault, amirite? :lol:), but anything to prevent it is good!

Here are some pics of an F4R for referencing against an F7R

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z18/Matteh449/F4R/DSCF1624.jpg

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z18/Matteh449/F4R/DSCF1628.jpg?

all the mk2 Clios with the F4R engine share the same bottom end btw, so those bolt holes should be correct. That BE is from a 182 anyway iirc.

If anyone needs any specific measurements or better pics (:oops:) just say. I've got a spare F4R crankcase sitting in a box in the corner :P

[f0xy]

As matteh said.....


They've used a combination of williams ARB (mk2 one has a kink in it, meaning it doesn't fit), mk2 wishbones, mk2 hubs (machined down to fit williams shocks - mk2 hubs are 'fatter' and have LARGER bolt holes iirc) and mk2 brakes obviously Very Happy. They've used 172 driveshafts iirc. but they must be the earlier shafts that have the same 'conventional' setup as the mk1.

I had the hubs machined down 2mm from each side, so i could run williams coilovers. Then I had the holes for the hubs on the coilover enlarged by 1mm, 0.5mm either side, so i could run 172 hub bolts.

Using 172 driveshafts, the Ph1 items.....without the additional bracket on the back of the block.

Whiteley tried to run 172 gear with R19 wishbones, but it didnt work, damaged one of his gearboxes we think as the shafts were too long, this is how we found out 172 track is wider than williams/19.

[f0xy]

damnit no edit function.

They width of the track isnt a problem if you run enough camber, I fitted Mk2 172 AST Solid adjustable top mounts to mine, which made it go lower. I didnt have time to raise it initially and ended up cracking one of the wings.

Its raised slightly now, with a couple of degrees negative camber, and it drives perfect.

[richy]

my tyres used to scrub on the wings with williams track when on a normal amount of lock to full lock! lol raised the car since then tho!

wouldnt like to have the wider wider track aswell doing that! be no wings left!!

[number1]

19 16v Track is wider than willy track, i tried to use 19 16v shafts and they knocked, apparently they lesser 19 has narrower track however,

Pretty sure Crossers was running 19 16v Shafts with 172 hubs and didnt have any problems

[Mark One]

anyone confirm the above?
R19 16v track is wider than williams???

[Winston]

I was just coming to bump this lol

19 16v and williams tracks are different but this could be down to the subframe....... 172, 19 16V and Williams wishbones are all different castor wise but the width is the same

[Winston]

posted it on cliosport btw :)... get abit more detail from the sport owners

http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?p=5579629#post5579629

[rs27carrera]

19 16V is wider. It is perfect combo:
- Scenic front hubs + Scenic bigger disks + Scenic bigger brakes + Ferodo DS2500 pads
=> makes wider front wheelbase, original driveshafts are too short
- add 19 16V driveshafts
This is very simple conversion, just shave few mm to get Scenic hub mounted to Willy front coilover. More info of shafts, see nice posts here

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34390

Just had first practices on track, brakes are improved i.e. now we run without brake booster, that much powerful are they now.

[Matty86]

i was having a look at a standard valver today and i really don't think theres room to run this bracket with a valver exhaust :(

[Winston]

Super sprint of WIN :wink:

Also plenty of room for the F4R boys :wink:

[summeh]

fine for willy manifold or supersprint.

[Matty86]

this one had a willy manifold and it looked a bit tight :o


but yeh, f4r ftw