View Full Version : 197 engine
How the fook do renault get 197 PS (194.3bhp) from the 197 engine?
I'm guessing it has fairly good fuel economy and also hits all the emissions restrictions etc as well? and has good driveability throughout the range.
It runs a f4r block right? so what are the diff's between it and the f4r 730 (172/182 engines) ???
Justin..
09-05-2009, 14:21
its a big block f4r like the meggy 225 iirc. is all i know :lol:
Justin..
09-05-2009, 14:26
yeah its different how i dont know. more of a CS question as they have more owners over there
im finding CS not very good for hardcore technical knowledge.
Justin..
09-05-2009, 14:28
not even from 'tuners' ?
big block meaning the bottom end is externally bigger to mount on to the 6speed gearbox
i've no idea what internal differences there are between the 830 and the 730 etc.. :(
oh, the 197 has continually variable valve time, so that might help!
not even from 'tuners' ?
Just my experience so far.
Lots of forum hear-say...
oh, the 197 has continually variable valve time, so that might help!
yeah thats one part of it, a new inlet manifold system, pos slightly higher spec cams, ecu, exhaust etc
i see, so the short motor is pretty much the same apart from being bigger so you can mount a 6speed gearbox to it?
any exotic coatings etc?
Prob becuase it's fiction?
Prob becuase it's fiction?
what is?
Saw some figures on CS and the RR figures are like that of the 172 and 182, i.e. well down on book. I think it was closer to 180 the actual results.
they are the most powerful of the 2.0 RS lumps, it's an F4A iirc and uses a more aggressive cam profile as well as variable valve lift? Dan will be able to confirm as he knows a lot more about them than me!
they starting to sound very complex :?
http://www.cliosport.net/forum/showthread.php?t=420747
Take a look at this.
Check out Sherlock Holmes! :wink:
I can't remember whom it was but just take a look and see if it updates. I do think they are alot like the 172/82's so if you are looking for a true figure prob circa 180bhp.
:)
there doesnt seem to be much response...
they get higher results than mk2s generally
it's not an F4A, its an F4R 830
They have more complex VVT (not lift), which allows incremental inlet opening over a range of crank angle, as opposed to just on/off actuation.
Bottom end geometry is the same, bellhousing fixture is different.
Different inlet and exhaust manifold.
The power figure from the factory is questionable, as with the 172's and 182's...they dont make book figures as standard.
one at GDI was stamped with F4A on the block which confused me... no idea then... lol
they make 184-186bhp on Omex/GDI rollers btw. 182/172 make around 166-170bhp iirc
the bitching from the mk2 owners about the 197's power reminds me of the williams' comments about the mk2 :D
dunno why, it's a better engine tbh, they should just deal with it lol
the F7R and F4R aren't much different, the cam profile is wilder on the 172 which is where the extra power must come from... about the eqivalent of fitting some RN2002's and not even mapping the car.
obviously renault have tryed to develope it more to gain the extra power, cant fault that, just the usual over estimating the power lol
i dont personally think the 197's are shit, ive driven loads and could do back to back runs against my 182, but theres not enough there to make me jump from my 182 to a 197, much rather get the meg 230 r26 or r26r is had cash!
btw i was highly disapointed to not see a turbo version clio, should of been clio 230 with lsd lol
the F7R and F4R aren't much different, the cam profile is wilder on the 172 which is where the extra power must come from... about the eqivalent of fitting some RN2002's and not even mapping the car.
Heads, cams, manifolds, ecu.... :lol:
what you think of the ndo box richy
tbh i didnt think it was particually bad at all, gear selection felt abit notchy on some i drove, maybe thats down to the feel with the cable selection, but that said not that bad, been over a year since ive driven a 197/225 now! these were all virtually new cars at the time.
the F7R and F4R aren't much different, the cam profile is wilder on the 172 which is where the extra power must come from... about the eqivalent of fitting some RN2002's and not even mapping the car.
Heads, cams, manifolds, ecu.... :lol:
in terms of where the difference in power is Craig... keep up ;)
How the fook do renault get 197 PS (194.3bhp) from the 197 engine?
I'm guessing it has fairly good fuel economy and also hits all the emissions restrictions etc as well? and has good driveability throughout the range.
It runs a f4r block right? so what are the diff's between it and the f4r 730 (172/182 engines) ???
forgot to add, there actually pretty poor on fuel consumption, compared a 172/182 there a good few mpg down
probably down to all that exta weight it's carrying, they are massive cars to the Mk1 and Mk2
the F7R and F4R aren't much different, the cam profile is wilder on the 172 which is where the extra power must come from... about the eqivalent of fitting some RN2002's and not even mapping the car.
Heads, cams, manifolds, ecu.... :lol:
in terms of where the difference in power is Craig... keep up ;)
Thats what Im talking about :?
sideways danny
09-05-2009, 21:52
I've taken one apart to it's bare bones ;)
The block IS marked F4A, but it's an F4R 830. The pistons are different, with a complex crown, rather than the shallow dish of the 172/182, rods are identical, crank is too. water pump is cambelt driven rather than aux belt driven, that changes the profile of the block considerably. The head has a greater volume chamber with much less quench area, exhaust ports are the same as the later 172 (very small, I believe for emmisions), and the inlet ports are surprisingly similar to that of the F7R/P. The inlet cam runs constantly variable timing, in contrast to the switched, 2 position pulley on the 172. The 197 uses coil on plug, so there is a cam sensor in the head/camcover, and a trigger wheel on one cam. The Inlet manifold is VERY different.
so different pistons..and inlet on a F7R and combustion chamber mods
and apart from cam timing your about there..
sideways danny
09-05-2009, 22:10
cams may be different spec(fairly sure, but not done any measuring)
any chance of some pics please dan... particularly the pistons...
cheers 8)
About a year ago, we had 2 stock 197's on the rollers...
One made 169,7, the other one had 172,9... that's HP on the wheels though...
We've seen 182's made that with just a remap...
thats about spot on then.
About a year ago, we had 2 stock 197's on the rollers...
One made 169,7, the other one had 172,9... that's HP on the wheels though...
We've seen 182's made that with just a remap...
Huh? You have seen a 182 make those figures above at the wheels?
Yah, with a decent remap on a rr that is, by fastchip...
I should have some prints from it...
I'll search for em later...
so you've seen a 182 make 170bhp ATW with just a remap... so thats about 194bhp ATF. (i.e. what a std 197 makes).
An increase of around 20bhp ATW for a remap...
Otherwise standard apart from the chip??????
Sounds crazy. I would take those roller figures with a pinch of salt?
think they are henk's of fast chip fame..
need one for my standard 182 then....
yeah maybe his rollers read over but a good gain..wonder why renault built the 197..
aye, if all they needed was a remap...!
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/Image112.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/Image113.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/Image114.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/Image115.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y128/JediPimp007/Image117.jpg
Smokey McPot
15-05-2009, 08:20
aye, if all they needed was a remap...!
New car, new performance spec....
The general public wouldnt understand. Plus, the new clio is, as always heavier than the last edition.
is that a plastic crank accessory pulley? the big grey one.
No idea Matt, I just got some pics for Dan in the workshop as he was going to pop on and explain the differences on the new F4RA lump. He'll probably be on later at some point to explain as it was over my head tbh lol
About a year ago, we had 2 stock 197's on the rollers...
One made 169,7, the other one had 172,9... that's HP on the wheels though...
We've seen 182's made that with just a remap...
Huh? You have seen a 182 make those figures above at the wheels?
an F7R with a gunnerchip would make more ;)
182's make no where near 170 at the wheels lol. They might on a questionable setup with an equally questionable RR operator, but 170+ is ITB territory.
piston design is very similar to what worked best on mini engine too.
jon isnt that the clio 197 version of the F4R (F4RA830 i think it says)
the 172/182 are F4R730 or something simular
one in the pic is the 197 lump yeah, I put that up as Dan at GDI is going to explain the differences between that and the 1*2 engines as he recently pulled it apart.
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