Capabilities of the Clio Williams Drag car....>

[Garndi]

Hello All,

My name is Andy, I am over from Australia to drag race my AWD Swift in the UK & to run the Nurburgring.

Always liked the clio so I am thinking of buying and building a Clio Williams drag/circuit car (Turbo/Nitrous).

Before I spend money I require some info... so one or two quick questions :D

F7R Engine:
Block looks cast from pic's I have seen?
Whats the most power from the engine? HP at the wheels?.
Are they closed or open deck?, do they suffer from block distortion?
Is there an option for an MLS head gasket?.
How much can you bore the block out to.
How may main cap bots.
What sort of RPM's are people getting out of the engine.

Pistions:
Is there off the shelf dish pistons that that will give around 7.8:1CR.
Or is there a known piston from another car that will give the CR I am after (*not cast*, forged or maybe hypertec pistons... high silicon...etc)
What is the standard pistion size.

Head:
What does the standard head flow like, is there any issues/restriction exhaust or inlet?

Inlet Plenum & TB:
How does it flow, has it become a restriction on anyones car?
What the standard TB size?, is there a bigger option from another car? or aftermarket option?.

Rods:
What are the standard rods like, how much HP can they take, have they been tested? ARP bolts?, are they forged?, is there an option to fit a forged rod from another car?.

Crank:
I read that the crank is forged from a diesel renault?, any issues?.

Clutch:
Is there an off the shelf clutch that will hold 400BHP 'wheels'

Injectors/fuel rail & lines:
Are they top or side feed, what replacement injectors are there around 750cc, what else fits...etc.
Whats the standard rail like? can it flow big power?.
Fuel Line from the tank to rail, any restriction?.

Flywheel:
Does some one do a light weight billet flywheel for the engine.

Drive shafts:
How do these go, what sort of power are they good for.... is there an option to fit bigger shafts or CV's.

Gear Box:
Whats the gear ratios like & I need to know the top speed 'MPH' in 4th gear? (rim & tyre size).
At what power do they break gearsets?, diff's? what goes... Is there another option to swap GB? (I dont want to cut/grind the chassis rail)

Is there enough room to fit a 3" exhaust system?.

Standard weight? and around what weight can you get these cars down to, completely gutted!!!?.

Do the Williams have independent suspension all round?.

The Williams have power steering?, will be running a welded diff and dont want a arm work out whilts racing lol.

Any problems I should know about?.

Any info would be appreciated.....

Thanks
Andy

[16v_paddy]

G'day mate & welcome :D
stan would be the best person to ask for all that lot, he'll probably supply the bits as well :wink: but I'll fill in what I know (not much tho :oops: )

you can get off the shelf low compression forged pistons - not sure how low though

3 types of F7R block 700 williams, 710 megane and 714 maxi iirc
the heads are different on the megane (33mm inlet valves) to the williams

standard bore size is 82.7mm

forged con rods are available off the shelf and arp bolts

There's also another thread on here with ratios etc for all the types of gearbox that fit - I'll have a look for that as well

I think the kerb weight on a williams 1 is 980 kg, I don't know how low it can go but I'm pretty sure someone else on here will know :lol:

suspension up front is mcpherson struts & springs and the rear is on a torsion beam with dampers

there's a thread on here somewhere, a guy has got 618 bhp from a turbo'd F7R 714 lump thats going into a rwd ibiza 8) , I'll have a look & see if I can find it for you

I believe there is room for a 3 inch exhaust system but don't rely on my knowledge there

Williams and the 1.8 16v's have power steering - bit soft for my liking when thrashing it but thats just personal choice :roll:

As for problems...... :roll: :lol: they're rusty, unreliable (sometimes) french heaps of shit :x but we love them all the same :lol:

What events are you going to be at with your swift? Show us some pics so we can keep an eye out for you 8)

[Justin..]

3" would knock like a bastard on the rear beam :lol:


700 is williams 710 is meggy as is 714 , but the 714 has a chain pump instead like the newer F4R


A multi layer steel headgasket is available, seen them on ebay, no idea whats theyre like on these tho.
people have bored them to 2.1 L but the headgasket get smaller between the pistons.
9k rpm has been seen i beleive tho 8k rpm is more common

8:1 pistons are availale off the shelf

[16v_paddy]

Here’s the thread with the 618bhp F7R
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=32701

Here’s the thread with the gearbox info
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27316

Hope it helps mate

[stevie_b]

I think the kerb weight on a williams 1 is 980 kg, I don't know how low it can go but I'm pretty sure someone else on here will know :lol:


You can get it sub-800kgs with a decent focus on weight-saving measures.

[Garndi]

Cheers for the info guys.

I have been doing a bit of rearching and have found some of the answers

Are the 714 maxi iirc blocks hard to find, pricey?, I read in that thread with the 618bhp F7R (BTW, awesome quality ride!!!), they have extra webbing and 6 kilos lighter.

Sorry did not quite get that.... what head is better megane or the williams?, what one has the bigger 33mm inlet valves.?. if its the megan head does this mean that the plenum needs to be changed, different port sizes or shape?. or flow differences between the to?.

How big can you take the valves out to on the head/heads, how far has the standard head been taken to. What sort of boost levels are people running on standard head?.

Ok, so there is plenty of room to bore the engine out, is there gaskets with bigger fire rings for Turbo application? I can o'ring the block if the MLS gaskets are not tested.

I would rather go with parts already been used/proven dont need to renvent the wheel....! :lol:

Nice GB link, looks like there is plenty of options for different ratios, any issues with gearsets or syncros?. or changing gear at high RPM.

8,000RPM limit is fine for me, is there any issues with valve float at high rpm?.

Whats the smallest rim size that can go over the williams front disc's, anyone used 13"s?. I want to use a 60 profile trye.

800Kilos, any chance of getting the car into 700kilos with light weight doors, boot and bonnet + lexan windows, fully raced prepped?.

As for info of my current drag/street/circuit car, here are some youtube vids of the Swift in action..........>

11.68 vs shop prepped GTR Skyline
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Mjc0bW_5HZQ
11.76 vs Subaru 500BHP shop built drag car.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=O88D1wKrQJw
Moving the lawn
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=b0syT6N4pi0
Pic of my Australian car in street trim....>
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/6016/postrs4.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=postrs4.jpg)
I shipped my parts over to the UK and I have been re-shelling the car with a 2001 2DR AWD Subaru Justy/Suzuki Swift (just painted it in a fresh coat of cosmo black). Its been a bit if a journey to get this far, but the car is now driving on the road in the UK :D .
http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1009/swiftgtipd9.jpg
Would have run a few times a few mths back, but it was raining everytime I wanted to go to SantaPod, dont know how you guy's drag race over here.... :lol: .
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/4296/swift1qs0.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swift1qs0.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/792/swift2zu0.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swift2zu0.jpg)

Shopping list/Car spec's :
TD04 Turbo @ 26PSI + ZEX Nitrous wet kit, currently running 100HP shot.
15" eneki sport 4.86 kilo rims in TOYO R888 GG's Semi slicks, wilwood 4pot brakes, Honda rotors. Skyline R33 GTR in tank pump + Suzuki GTI in tank pump & Bosch external 800HP pump + alloy surge tank.... Reverse k&n POD, SFS, Alloy IC pipes, 780mm IC, Blitz BOV.
1340cc GTi engine, knife edge crank, tear dropped oil galleries, crank rotated 180 and machined for bigger crank key, suzuki forged internals, molly rings, ARP bolts, O'ringed block, custom plenum, custom fuel rail/lines, SARD FPR, SR20 60mm TB, Mitsubishi twin turbo injectors. nascar bearings...etc Billet flywheel/2200pound custom clutch
Mallory CDI & coil, 10mm leads and custom dizzy.
Stainless Turbo manifold/down pipe and a full 3" mandrel exhaust.
3" custom 1 piece tail shaft with a 100mm mustang uni. Welded viscous coulping and welded rear diff. Custom front drive shafts. Solid engine Mounts & Alloy Diff mounts. Koni's, Kings springs, my custom coilovers....
Haltech e11 v2 standalone ecu..... + Loads of other cr@p....

The car is very lively to drive with the locked AWD system,
car run's a 1.5sec 60ft with GAS. 0-60MPH about 3 seconds.

Anyway the car is now driving around and is almost 100% ready, just have to weld in the Custom cages roll cage and paint the inside, + retune to this side of the planet as the A/F's are a little out.

The plan is to get the car in to the 10's next year at santa pod, 1.3 power :lol: .

Thanks again for the info.... :wink: please keep it coming :D

[16v_paddy]

Jesus H. Christ :shock: I'd love your bank balance :lol:

Awesome sounding motor :D I'd love to see that thing in the flesh 8) I think it's even funnier to think my grandad had 1 that shape :lol:
There's a weekend special on 21st-22nd Feb at santa pod will you be going? Where abouts in the UK are you based?

The megane head has the 33mm inlet valves but the ports are a different shape to the williams head.
You need to speak to stan :notworthy: for exact specs & details but you can go up to 35mm inlet valves according to his website
http://www.ap-developments.com/Renault_heads.html

I'd assume the 714 blocks are harder to come by as I'd never heard of them until I saw the thread with the 618bhp lump :? :shock:

I think you can get 13's over the disks :? winston has put some ridiculously small rims on a clio, not sure if they're 13's though :?
Standard disc size is 259mm

[Justin..]

Need GTT brakes for 13" wheels

[Justin..]

and the F7R D 714 is the later Megane coupe 2.0

[Garndi]

Hey Mate, cheers for the link, will have a look at his site now.

I was checking out the disc's on ebay and found the sizes 10.1 inches, just need to know how high the caliper sits lol.

Yeah it gets a few funny looks on the street, most of them are driven by old people.... its a bit loud, ruff and very uncivilised :lol: .

At the moment I am in Hertfordshire. north of London.

If I get the chance I will run the GTi, need to swap the synco in 2nd as its not shifting through gears with the NOS. Have the parts, just lacking the will to go out side, to cold!!!.

Thanks
Andy

[16v_paddy]

We like things loud, rough and uncivilised round here :lol:

[stevie_b]

Nice project. That thing gets off the line seriously quickly!


800Kilos, any chance of getting the car into 700kilos with light weight doors, boot and bonnet + lexan windows, fully raced prepped?.


I think you'd struggle to get it down to 700kg, but I could be proved wrong. I've not had mine on the weighbridge yet but having weighed most of the stuff I have taken out/replaced I reckon it should be about 200 kgs lighter. So starting at 980kg I should be down to around 780 kgs. That's with a fibreglass bonnet and boot, polycarb windows, lightweight alloys, completely stripped interior, etc. You might save another few kilos with fibreglass doors and if you can lose the lights, which are quite heavy, if it's just a drag car. Seeing your attention to detail I would think you'd be able to hit 750kg without too much trouble, it's just the next 50kg gets considerably harder to achieve :lol:

[MAXIBOY]

we are still waiting for beanie to get his on a bridge

as his will be the lightest i,ve seen yet..carbon roof fibreglass doors boot bonnet and full perspex...

http://www.clio16valver.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7532

this will be close but you could go lighter as i think hes still running a full fuel tank etc as its a road car too

lighter rims wheels brakes etc could see the weight drop a little further so could some severe hole drilling too..

as started F7R714 are very common and around 300/400 quid..keeping the same cylinder head as there the best..can run these as no doubt you will be going standalone..

head gasket are available but running huge boost would be worth upgrading the head bolts to studs...

main problem will be boxes as these are weaker but cheap enough to change often unless you upgrade to a hewland item..

crank will take 500bhp rods 300bhp but both items are available
pistons are available in any compression ratio you want..
run a megane flywheel and clutches are available too..

stan at apd comes highly recommended and has input and did the head on mine.....should run 380/400 when re mapped hopefully in feb..

[bbaazz-08]

how do you find her to drive on the roads with the welded diff

[Garndi]

Cheers for the info and the links.

I have been doing lots of reading/research. Found quite a few sites that sell parts for these cars so thats good.

BTW the CF roof on the Clio is awesome!!!, they have put a lot of hours in to that ride and looks like its starting to pay off, will be good to see the results.... weight/times...etc

Getting the FAT of the car is the best place to start, drilling holes are a good idea (I call them speed holes :D ). the down side is that your legs get wet when driving in the rain..... Not usually a problem where I am from.

I have a fuel cell ready to go and I have picked up a sponser for methonal so I am really keen stuff some of that in to it lol.

I will be using a Haltech E11v2 to run the engine, so not really an issue what one goes in the engine bay, it has to be renault and suited to the car....

Any Ideas as to what brakes in the Gearboxes or at what power they go at?.


Need GTT brakes for 13" wheels
R5 GTT?, will I need the disc's as well?. Are they a direct fit to the clio hub.

Depending on how much clearence I need, I may end up grinding the top of the standard caliper to fit under 13's.


how do you find her to drive on the roads with the welded diff

The locked diff is a bit of handful around car parks. I had the car out last nght (taking someone for a joy ride :lol: ) car was side ways everywhere 4wd drifting in 3rd so that was a laugh. The road was a bit cold as were the semi slicks.

The locked diff + the locked viscous (50-50 spilt) allows you to launch hard and pull very straight off the line.

[Justin..]

use R5 GTT disc and calipers. direct fit, the RSi uses the the exact same setup

[bendee]

are they gonna be good enought tho? i take it itll be a quick clio going off the swift and what your wanting to know.

[Justin..]

good enough for a 5GTT arent they? lol

[Garndi]

are they gonna be good enought tho? i take it itll be a quick clio going off the swift and what your wanting to know.

With the weight removed from the car and some carbon metallic pads that will be enough to stop me when drag racing.

For Track racing I would use wilwoods if required.

How do these cars go at the track (cornering), are they heavy in the front with the cast iron block?.

[bendee]

lol true it is lighter tho but im sure the clio will go lower in weight than a standard weight 5

[Lunner]

Set them up properly and they'll handle like they are on rails

[Garndi]

Set them up properly and they'll handle like they are on rails

What coilovers do people usually use?, I have seen a few for sale on ebay.

What spring rate do people use for the front and rear?.

[Lunner]

Everyone has a different set-up.

Alot of people rate Avo's, personally i think they are shit

[MAXIBOY]

weak point in the boxes are two fold..both in the diff mainly..

uprated diffs and properly assembled boxes are the key...

[Wobba]

You could maybe save more weight with some fibreglass rear panels?

[Lunner]

Full cage and GRP shell

[rs250]

If drag racing is your thing then why not start with a lighter car, as mentioned above the five is shit loads lighter that any clio, and all the engines available will fit in the five.

[volymmannen]

use R5 GTT disc and calipers. direct fit, the RSi uses the the exact same setup
why bother change calipers?? they are the same on the clio and GTT only change the brackets holding the calipers from a GTT and fit the smaller disks ..

[Coops]

:goodposting:

[kj16v]

I've fitted 13" steelies to a 16v before so no need to change anything :D

About gearboxes:
These are the weak point in Clios, seeing as they are made of actual French nickers. When given a hard time they barely handle standard power. That's standard 'boxes though. I don't know what uprated gearsets and such are like.

Clutch:
They have tiny 200mm clutches (JC5-215mm). Off the shelf you won't find one that can handle much over 200 lbs-ft. Would definitely have to buy a muti-plate clutch.



BTW Garndi: your Swift = :bowdown:

[kj16v]

Here's a site I found years ago for the proper racing Maxi kit + plus carbon/fibreglass body panels - at least I think they're all fibreglass. It's translated from French! :oops:

[stevie_b]

Forgot the link? :lol:

[kj16v]

#-o

http://translate.google.com/translate?sourceid=navclient-menuext&hl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Emcracingsa%2Ecom%2FRENAULTCLI O%2Ehtm

[MAXIBOY]

try..

http://www.fastcarspares.com/home.php?cat=276