What sort of money and mods to do to get 200BHP at fly?

[kneesparks]

As title really, i have a Zorst and filter. I dont want to go the turbo way (already got turbo car) so want to keep it NA, Throttle bodys seem to make good power with cam's :oops: 8)

[sideways danny]

raise compression (complex crown forged pistons are my favoured method) Cams, throttle bodies and omex management would be the way I'd go :)

[Coops]

all that minus the bodies might just scrape 200bhp give or take a few ponies, bodies to see it easily

[stan]

Depends how nice you want it to be, and where you want this 200bhp.

If you have the budget, ITB's with a relatively mild set of cams will yield 200bhp peak. Obviously it isnt just about peak figures, and this is what affects the driving experience....and so with ITB's you will net very good torque over the WHOLE rev range...making a very quick car.
To get 200bhp ona single body/common plenum will make it quite peaky, needing wilder cams. This also causes issues with the MAP sensor, and therefore idle and low throttle can be spluttery.

I would set a budget and aim what best to do to make a quick car, as opposed to JUST fitting cams which will yield this figure you want, but not necessarily make a quicker car.

[sideways danny]

Depends how nice you want it to be, and where you want this 200bhp.

If you have the budget, ITB's with a relatively mild set of cams will yield 200bhp peak. Obviously it isnt just about peak figures, and this is what affects the driving experience....and so with ITB's you will net very good torque over the WHOLE rev range...making a very quick car.
To get 200bhp ona single body/common plenum will make it quite peaky, needing wilder cams. This also causes issues with the MAP sensor, and therefore idle and low throttle can be spluttery.

I would set a budget and aim what best to do to make a quick car, as opposed to JUST fitting cams which will yield this figure you want, but not necessarily make a quicker car.

good summary mostly TBH. idle becomes far less of an issue once you ditch the stock ECU though, no need to run MAP on an N/A car whatsoever and with a suitable idle control valve you dont need to run wild spark scatter and high static idle so low RPM and idle become much much cleaner. We've got it so good on the F4R now that the idle's better than stock

[stan]

Granted with a "wild" cam set up (i find anything more than a true 270* on the F7R) an after market managment ecu is required...as you say due to the OE speed density set-up.
But,
I also find that only like 10* above this kind of duration (obviosuly timing dependent) still gives a rough idle due to inlet reversion, when on AlfaN so only TPS as load. It can sound nice dont get me wrong, but its not the best on a full road car IMO!

Again, throttle bodies will certainly help against this, and a very stable purr can be achieved with the same cams (and timing) when on ITB's over a plenum.

[sideways danny]

absolutely. Do have to question the merits of retaining the standard inlet with really wild cams though. It's trying to overcome a restriction by over specifying periferals when you could give a much better torque and horspower spread AND strain the engine less with some throttle bodies, or just a simple plenum.

[stan]

aye exactly.

[16v_paddy]

I don't fully understand it when they get really technical on here :?

But all this information makes me moist :preverted: :twisted: :lol:

[number1]

I think Im going to find out what bodies will do on standard cams, its either bodies or motorbike next year and im swaying into bodies :S

[sideways danny]

I think Im going to find out what bodies will do on standard cams, its either bodies or motorbike next year and im swaying into bodies :S

I think you'll see more gains by adding cams to bodies later on than you would putting in cams with the standard inlet. Bodies with standard cams sounds a good plan first :)

[number1]

would just be interested to see what i can get, tbh the car doesnt stand me in much so far all the bits have just turned up cheap, so i might even consider the use of bike bodies, just getting the manifold fabricated is what have to look into i believe if done right then there just as good as the top names

[bendee]

itbs first is what im doing, getting the big bit out the way first then adding cams ect. as way i see it everything will be done around the bodies so start off with them, might be my not so advanced way of lookin at it but it makes sence to me.

[Clio-Girl]

my clio is 200bhp and i have really wild cams on a standard inlet and believe me just opt for bodies far less hassle, the car is pretty awful under 2000rpm but i do enjoy my monster idle.

[J o n]

dont understand why people get caught up chasing an imaginary figure. Only leads to disappointment if and when it doesn't make the numbers... if it slaughters other Clio's and cars of a similar class be happy with that. Guaranteed you can take it to 10 different RR's and will see massive variation from one to another.

If you want 200bhp and that's your goal just bring your car up to mine and I'll take it to Ric Woods dyno, you'll probably make that with an air filter!

[2 live]

dont understand why people get caught up chasing an imaginary figure. Only leads to disappointment if and when it doesn't make the numbers... if it slaughters other Clio's and cars of a similar class be happy with that. Guaranteed you can take it to 10 different RR's and will see massive variation from one to another.

If you want 200bhp and that's your goal just bring your car up to mine and I'll take it to Ric Woods dyno, you'll probably make that with an air filter!


lol.


agreed on that tbh. why does it have to be 200??


think mine was around the 175-180 mark.....n there were none that could get near it. adis cliorossa was the closest, beating mine unti l the gas ran out after 5 mins.......then he got his ass handed to him again.


its how it drives that the important thing, not wankin over dubious figures down the pub ;)

[2 live]

Granted with a "wild" cam set up (i find anything more than a true 270* on the F7R) an after market managment ecu is required...as you say due to the OE speed density set-up.
But,
I also find that only like 10* above this kind of duration (obviosuly timing dependent) still gives a rough idle due to inlet reversion, when on AlfaN so only TPS as load. It can sound nice dont get me wrong, but its not the best on a full road car IMO!

Again, throttle bodies will certainly help against this, and a very stable purr can be achieved with the same cams (and timing) when on ITB's over a plenum.



u mean like this slag?? lol...270s on bodies with standalone.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VKh7TZ7GlyU

or like this


260s on mapped ecu


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x_49fGKZvpg&feature=channel

[arj256]

dont understand why people get caught up chasing an imaginary figure. Only leads to disappointment if and when it doesn't make the numbers... if it slaughters other Clio's and cars of a similar class be happy with that. Guaranteed you can take it to 10 different RR's and will see massive variation from one to another.

If you want 200bhp and that's your goal just bring your car up to mine and I'll take it to Ric Woods dyno, you'll probably make that with an air filter!

But what is wrong with setting a goal?
By the sounds of things, it seems a feasible goal in the right hands.
Renaultsport can achieve 197Ps with a f7 derived engine..

[2 live]

so whats the goal?? to build a car thats undriveable on the road but has 200, or a car thats driveable with maybe a bit less? maybe a bit more?

[arj256]

The goal is up to the individual for there desired application.

[stan]

Granted with a "wild" cam set up (i find anything more than a true 270* on the F7R) an after market managment ecu is required...as you say due to the OE speed density set-up.
But,
I also find that only like 10* above this kind of duration (obviosuly timing dependent) still gives a rough idle due to inlet reversion, when on AlfaN so only TPS as load. It can sound nice dont get me wrong, but its not the best on a full road car IMO!

Again, throttle bodies will certainly help against this, and a very stable purr can be achieved with the same cams (and timing) when on ITB's over a plenum.



u mean like this s*@g?? lol...270s on bodies with standalone.


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=VKh7TZ7GlyU

or like this


260s on mapped ecu


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=x_49fGKZvpg&feature=channel

hehe aye side exhaust makes it sound slaaaag!!

[stan]

I mapped one today making 193bhp/167Lb.ft on a std inlet. Full road car, and its nice...to drive etc etc.

Any more than this, with respect to cams (to aid peak power) and it really wouldnt be nice, unless you fit ITB's.

[bendee]

i dont think its wrong to set a goal by saying 200 brake it lets us know what kinda figure hes after so we say cams and bodies its just a figure he knows will be quick and was wondering what he needed to hit that. if he just said fast we could say cams but that might not be fast enough for him so hes given a figure he would be happy with and wants to know whats needed to hit that.

[eternalife]

Without goals, tuners have free reign over what they provide.
So the consumer carries ALL the financial risk as well as having no explicit requirements...this leaves them in a very vulnerable place.

Drivability comes under 'fit for application'.
If tuner is told its a road car, then it should be drivable on road.
Case for an explicit track toy could be different.

Any tuner worth using, should be able to advise if the intended outcome will be feasible and fit for purpose.

[kneesparks]

I mapped one today making 193bhp/167Lb.ft on a std inlet. Full road car, and its nice...to drive etc etc.

Any more than this, with respect to cams (to aid peak power) and it really wouldnt be nice, unless you fit ITB's.
This is what i mean, what has been done to it to get that power? 8)

[number1]

Well im looking into bodies, not really considering cams, want itb's first for increased torque and hp throughout, and the noise :lol:

atm im debating between a bike and bodies... stressful, bike will still be faster than the clio no matter what i do, but i cant fall off a clio unless i sit on the roof!

[Jamie.]

I have to say before you go wild and spending massive amounts I would have a go in, or drive a Clio Williams with the sort of power you are looking at.

You may actually find 200 bhp is too much and that you would have been perfectly happy with a car with 175bhp being just some cam's. But once you have forked out extra for that headwork and other mod's you cannot get your money back and may feel disapointed.

My point is really just applying what the Jesus said. What would you be happy with - doesn't neccessarily need to be 200bhp as that from a car which weighs 950kg will be super quick.

Don't go wasting tonnes of cash mate.

[stan]

I mapped one today making 193bhp/167Lb.ft on a std inlet. Full road car, and its nice...to drive etc etc.

Any more than this, with respect to cams (to aid peak power) and it really wouldnt be nice, unless you fit ITB's.
This is what i mean, what has been done to it to get that power? 8)

Catcams 5502225, one of my williams head, rebuilt with forged pistons

[Tommo]

Mine is 'only' around 170bhp, kent cams, ported head, ss exhaust and it's enough for me tbh, any more and I think it would lose tractability. But this is my opinion, I'd like to drive one around the 200bhp mark to compare, I'd imagine it to be a bit of of a handful though, and then comes reliability issues...

[kneesparks]

Prob is iv been using the skyline, ok totaly different animal but iv got use to driving with 400bhp silly doing 0-60 5sec if you get it right, I know the clio will not match that, just want the clio with a bit more poke. It handles nice and breaks well so if i can get some good power out of it without throwing a bucket load of money at it then great as i drive the clio every day. :roll:

[number1]

mines probably 170 onwards last rr it made 169 fly and 140 atw but that was pre supersprint and since ive changed the fuel filter it pulls like a train! just want a little more poke there 190-200 would be great with bodies and standard cams, cliolords car is an animal but he's having some issue's getting it all down without a decent diff!!

[J o n]

i dont think its wrong to set a goal by saying 200 brake it lets us know what kinda figure hes after so we say cams and bodies its just a figure he knows will be quick and was wondering what he needed to hit that. if he just said fast we could say cams but that might not be fast enough for him so hes given a figure he would be happy with and wants to know whats needed to hit that.

200bhp can be 180 or 220 depending on where you go though, so for that reason it always makes sense to have a before and after run otherwise it means nothing. Adding ITB's increased my bhp and torque by over 30bhp in some areas, certainly an increase you notice. On a Williams it would theoretically be 180bhp, but it would waste any other Willy of lesser spec. I certainly dont think anyone driving a standard Williams would be unhappy with that kind of increase

[Daz.]

I've always said a standard willy would be awesome with an extra 30 bhp over standard - well thats what I'd be happy with anyway..

Hell it made me happy just taking the back seats out, that extra little surge made it feel much better - whats that weight in terms of power 5bhp or something?

[2 live]

Prob is iv been using the skyline, ok totaly different animal but iv got use to driving with 400bhp silly doing 0-60 5sec if you get it right, I know the clio will not match that, just want the clio with a bit more poke. It handles nice and breaks well so if i can get some good power out of it without throwing a bucket load of money at it then great as i drive the clio every day. :roll:

set of mild cams and a remapped ecu will give mid 5 sec 0-60 s mate........trust me ;) the 100+ mark will come up quite a bit later than the skyline i would imagine tho lol

[kneesparks]

set of mild cams and a remapped ecu will give mid 5 sec 0-60 s mate........trust me ;) the 100+ mark will come up quite a bit later than the skyline i would imagine tho lol
That would be nice, skyline does 175 and dont stop pulling hard till you hit the red line in top! Monster car 8) Not a every day motor tho, that where the Williams comes in. :wink:

[number1]

williams=B-road car
Skyline A=Road car
Well maybe! lol