View Full Version : F7P or F7R turbo
lewis_willy2
10-10-2007, 17:17
as above which is better for turbo-ing and why
lewis
i think the F7P because i had the choice and went this way.
just because its a very rev loving unit which is what you want from a turbo engine really.
lewis_willy2
10-10-2007, 17:34
so if they were both running 1 bar of boost what would be the outcome
think the two litre might make more torque and even power at lower revs but the 1.8 might have it when it came on power. difficult to say as there would be nothing in it in real terms just think the 1.8 would be more fun really as you rev the nuts of them.
lewis_willy2
10-10-2007, 17:59
fair enough, just wondered as ive got a friend who is considering the conversion but wondered why bb tuning supplied the 320bhp chip on the 1.8 but not the williams. but surely the williams is capable of 320bhp
i believe they call it stage 3, correct me if im wrong
the reason is that they mapped a 1.8 to 320bhp thus had a test bed i believe.
don,t think they have done a 2.0 litre.
they may have a 350bhp chip soon.
Justin..
10-10-2007, 18:40
i'd go 1.8 purely cos engines are cheaper. unles you an get a 2.0 b/e for £50 like i have done
lewis_willy2
10-10-2007, 19:50
any ideas of the boost they run to get near 300bhp
as said by justin 1.8 would be cheaper if things go pop... but if I was gonna do it then i'd go 2.0.
Stick with the F7P when turbo'd imo..
lewis_willy2
10-10-2007, 20:07
ye same here, was thinking of gettin a 1.8 and selling my williams lump to fund the project. but a 1.8 turbo in a williams wouldnt feel right. even tho power wont be much different. glad i decided on keeping my williams.
it'll be a true williams turbo
ye same here, was thinking of gettin a 1.8 and selling my williams lump to fund the project. but a 1.8 turbo in a williams wouldnt feel right. even tho power wont be much different. glad i decided on keeping my williams.
it'll be a true williams turbo
indeed :wink:
KEBABMAN
11-10-2007, 16:19
I may be well off but i've heard the F7p use's a different crack that was found on the diesel model thus it can handle more torque than the weaker F7r
Justin..
11-10-2007, 17:37
other way round. the f7r (2.0) uses the diesel crank
F7R is a long stroke engine.
F7P is short stroke thus its revs better and should make a better turbo engine as most are short stroke or square.
VIPERONE
19-10-2007, 17:51
depends what the guy sets the rev lmit too. i'd be happy with an f7r turbo @ 7k limiter.
more torque from the williams engine
ai, that real lack of torque shows in a turboed f7p :lol: :wink:
energy_god
11-11-2007, 02:26
anyone got f7r and f7p 1/8 mile time?
energy_god
11-11-2007, 03:12
What about F7P with 84mm pistons???
Is it better than F7R with 82.7 pistons?
What about F7P with 84mm pistons???
Is it better than F7R with 82.7 pistons?
no as it leaves the head gasket to weak when overboring to 84mm.
energy_god
11-11-2007, 23:17
wich on is better for 1/8 mile drag race?
What about F7P with 84mm pistons???
Is it better than F7R with 82.7 pistons?
no as it leaves the head gasket to weak when overboring to 84mm.
mapped correctly i will doubt there will be much if any difference.
but 1.8 is cheaper and you can use 2.0 litre megane 8v pistons to keep the cost down.
mapped correctly i will doubt there will be much if any difference.
but 1.8 is cheaper and you can use 2.0 litre megane 8v pistons to keep the cost down.
i didnt know that, what would the compresion ratio be using them and would i need one of the expensive thicker head gaskets from BB tunning?
Didnt BB tuning always seem to get more bhp out of the f7p on there turbo conversions than the f7r?
Seem to remember observing that somewhere.
Id go for a f7p if i was turbo'ing personally.
mapped correctly i will doubt there will be much if any difference.
but 1.8 is cheaper and you can use 2.0 litre megane 8v pistons to keep the cost down.
i didnt know that, what would the compresion ratio be using them and would i need one of the expensive thicker head gaskets from BB tunning?
compression would be 7.5 to 1. could run a standard gasket. pistons are 40 quid each new.
Didnt BB tuning always seem to get more bhp out of the f7p on there turbo conversions than the f7r?
Seem to remember observing that somewhere.
Id go for a f7p if i was turbo'ing personally.
yes but as far as i,m aware that was due to different mapping...
though the 1.8 was tuned to 320bhp.... 8) and might get even more very soon.. :twisted:
mapped correctly i will doubt there will be much if any difference.
but 1.8 is cheaper and you can use 2.0 litre megane 8v pistons to keep the cost down.
i didnt know that, what would the compresion ratio be using them and would i need one of the expensive thicker head gaskets from BB tunning?
compression would be 7.5 to 1. could run a standard gasket. pistons are 40 quid each new.
i thought that for the high boost conversion u needed the compression to be 8.5 to 1?
Justin..
13-11-2007, 23:21
depends how high you want to boost.
well how wouldnt want to put too much seeing as std h/g and std megane pistons (not forged) what would be the lowest and highest boost u could run with them?
Justin..
13-11-2007, 23:41
well there is no lowest as you could run 1 psi it would just be shit :lol: but highest ? dunno 10 psi maybe 12? as a rule you cant run more than 7 psi on a stadard compression n/a bottom end
thought coops was running approx 9psi?
Justin..
13-11-2007, 23:50
dont know :?
ai mine ran 9psi on normal comp, that was the limit of the map tho, no higher, and it popped! :lol:
dont want to lower comp too much either as it gets less n less powerful and looses all torque when off boost
so what boost u running now?
still the same as my clutch was slippin at that psi so not turned it up yet, will be runnin 15psi soon then a proper map at around 21psi
Justin..
14-11-2007, 00:22
what does neil run ?
take it you have lowered the compression then so u can run more boost? sorry for all the question but im currently getting all the parts to gether for a f7p tubby and dont know to either go for high boost or low boost conversion
Justin..
14-11-2007, 00:25
yeah coops has rebuilt low comp
with 8.5 to 1 compression?
yes, i bought the car with a 10k old low boost conversion on it, it blew the h/g due to chargecooler failure and overboosted turbo at some point. so while it was in bits seemed rude not to go high boost with low comp pistons, its runnin 8.5 to 1 yes.
was thinking if i decided to go for the 2.0 megane pistons and get a 0.6mm h/g then would that not be near 8.5 to 1 instead of being the 7.5 to 1 on standard h/g? just trying to work out a cheaper way that bb or ktec!
running the 7.5 to 1 at anything between 10 and 20 psi would be fine. i would limit to around 17psi. will be fine.
megane pistons are only 120 a set though where the forged ones are 400/500 so there a load cheaper and are fine for upto 260/280 as bb used to included them in the first turbo kits.
so running the 7.5 to 1 on high boost preset fastchip map would be fine? where abouts get pistons for £120? gsf?
Justin..
14-11-2007, 00:48
prob dealer mate.
yes mate a stated its the pistons bb supplied before you are offered to upgrade to forged mate. any engine parts supplier should be able to get them..
thanks for the info. i know gunner does low boost preset chip but where can i get a high boost preset chip from and how much? sorry for hijacking the thread! :oops:
I have a spare for sale if you need mate, pm me
CLIO 1.8 16v
16-11-2007, 07:23
this might be a stupied Qs lol but can u just turbo a valver like thought u need to up rate the bottom end and pistons and that if u dont what sort of money r u looking at to do it ???
for low boost upto 9psi boost bottom end can stay standard, upto 320 bhp at around 21psi u need forged pistons and above that its a good idea to forge the con rods n all!
the bulk of the cost is the parts to connect the turbo and associated systems to the lump, so they will need to be bought no matter what, forged pistons new from wossener are like another £500 on top of the basic cost and as the engine should really be stripped, inspected and rebuilt with a turbo spec head gasket anyway before used for the conversion its worth slappin them in.
overall costs can vary depending on if you get the work done or you do it yourself! for example, my original reciept for low boost conversion from BBPT was wait for it.......£7500! :shock: not that i paid that as it was done before i bought the car!there are loads of people on here doing home brew versions of that conversion tho and they are coming in at around half that cost doing the work themselves i rekon, but they can give you a clearer idea of overall costs!
AndyFielder
19-11-2007, 10:56
Coops when i finnish my high comp iTB'd car would there be any issues with me building a plenum and joining you turbo boys... why do turbos run low compression?
Andy
Coops when i finnish my high comp iTB'd car would there be any issues with me building a plenum and joining you turbo boys... why do turbos run low compression?
Andy
yes there would be an issue mate!lol, if u stick with the high comp pistons it'll blow summit out the block in seconds!lol
n/a uses high comp as theres a limit to the mass of air you can get into the engine, so the higher comp means this is compensated for by compressing it more in the cylinders for more bang!hence more power!
forced induction is just that, us turbo boys get one hell of alot more air into our engines so we dont need to compress it as much to get the power from it as theres more there!which is why its pants off boost as the engine has essentially lost power untill the turbo kicks in!
AndyFielder
19-11-2007, 23:09
so you think it best i dont run a T2 just for a bit more power with 12:1 compression ratio?
probably best you dont no lol! not if you value your freshly rebuilt lump!
AndyFielder
19-11-2007, 23:37
:D
suppose thats what the spare block is for
Low comp iTB'd Turbo... will have to get bored of bodies first tho!
My 37000 mile valver lump would be ideal for turbo'ing.... :D
Coops when i finnish my high comp iTB'd car would there be any issues with me building a plenum and joining you turbo boys... why do turbos run low compression?
Andy
yes there would be an issue mate!lol, if u stick with the high comp pistons it'll blow summit out the block in seconds!lol
n/a uses high comp as theres a limit to the mass of air you can get into the engine, so the higher comp means this is compensated for by compressing it more in the cylinders for more bang!hence more power!
forced induction is just that, us turbo boys get one hell of alot more air into our engines so we dont need to compress it as much to get the power from it as theres more there!which is why its pants off boost as the engine has essentially lost power untill the turbo kicks in!
Actually, low comp is purely to reduce risk of detonation (pinking). The lower the compression, the lower octane petrol/higher boost you can use.
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