cam duration too mild?

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

spec is : power band 2000-6500 rpm

duration in:258 ex:248 valve lift in: o.380/964 ex: 0.360/9.14

cam lift is the same figures as valve lift

timing open:18-58 close 58-18


just wondering if these are quite mild cams, the duration up from these which is 264 , is stated as it can not be run on standard injection.

but the cat/pipers run 264 with the standard injection so is there sumthing else to these cams

[stan]

yes they are mild. both will be fine on standard managment.

[rossdj1983]

264's are generally a good all round cam

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

but will a say 264 piper/264 catcam/264 newman all be the same in terms of performance.

what bit actually diffrentiates the different types

[stan]

quite alot....264deg doesnt tell the whole story...you need to compare 0.1mm duration and 1mm duration to gain a better picture of the` overall profile. then you can consider valve opening/closing points...this really defines performance.

between different manufacturers, there could also be manufacturing differences....

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

on manufacturing differences do you mean the how the cams where made i.e billet/blank /regrinds

or the actual process involved in making the cams.

im assuming billet are the best to go for?

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

i havent got the spec of the cat cams , so ill just use the pipers and newmans in comparison.

pipers : 264, inlet valve lift .390/9.90mm exhaust valve lift .362/9.20mm
timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 58-18

newmans: 264 inlet valve lift .420/10.66mm exhaust valve lift .420/10.66
timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 62-22


so the newmans is a slightly more aggresive cam?

[MAXIBOY]

on manufacturing differences do you mean the how the cams where made i.e billet/blank /regrinds

or the actual process involved in making the cams.

im assuming billet are the best to go for?

difficult to say. billet are better but only really needed on wild cams that can,t be ground from a standard blank. blanks are fine for nearly everything. heard some stories about regrinds and problems but thats not always true.

the best cams are the right spec for your mods and driving style/type

[MAXIBOY]

i havent got the spec of the cat cams , so ill just use the pipers and newmans in comparison.

pipers : 264, inlet valve lift .390/9.90mm exhaust valve lift .362/9.20mm
timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 58-18

newmans: 264 inlet valve lift .420/10.66mm exhaust valve lift .420/10.66
timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 62-22


so the newmans is a slightly more aggresive cam?

not sure as specs don,t tell you everything but the newmans have more lift so might make better power but thats only one aspect.

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

the newmans looked good to me as they seem more agressive than the piper 264 but not as agressive as the piper 276.

ive been in jays hybrid running 265 pipers , and i have to say it idles beautiful and is rapid, i just fancy going for sumthing slightly more aggresive with out being too lumpy on idle.

[eternalife]

i havent got the spec of the cat cams , so ill just use the pipers and newmans in comparison.

pipers : 264, inlet valve lift .390/9.90mm exhaust valve lift .362/9.20mm
timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 58-18

newmans: 264 inlet valve lift .420/10.66mm exhaust valve lift .420/10.66
timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 62-22


so the newmans is a slightly more aggresive cam?

not sure as specs don,t tell you everything but the newmans have more lift so might make better power but thats only one aspect.

Am I right in thinking, Another aspect is surely the exhaust timing - newmans delayed exhaust relates to more power in comparison to pipers?

[stan]

For the record Catcams dont do 264deg grind.

As for comparing those to above, your only showing duration from 0.1mm....as I said to better see which is more "agressive" you need duration between another lift point...usually 1mm.

yes, the retarded timing figures will aid peak power in theory, BUT we dont know how the profile compares, so you cant give a definative "yes this is better" answer.

In any case, its always a pay off between performance and idle stability whilst your on the OE managment. Jays idles nice because the cams arent very wild, and the timing figures may have been altered to aid idle at the cost of peak figures.

[Imperial_16v]

If you were wanting, to say, purchase the newman cams for example (264 dur) what else would you need to buy along with them?

i.e. would you need the vernier pulley's as well and springs, etc.... or can you simply buy the cam shafts, put them in and away you go?

I'm guessing you'd want to buy a new cam belt?

Cheers. :)

[stan]

pulleys and belt.

[Imperial_16v]

pulleys and belt.

Ta. :)

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

so how 'wild' a cam is and 'timing' are too seperate things.

so u can go with a mild cam timed more aggresively or a wilder cam timed more conservatively, which set up would be better to go with?

[Scougar]

One that is timed in right :D

Matthew

[Ahmed Bayjoo]

lol fair point , :imstupid: just trying to find out what factors affect what

[Scougar]

When i say timed in right, I mean what is recommended by the manufacturer. Of course you can advance or retard depending on what you want, but it's normally best to stick to the setting recommended. Also... isn't timing in some way determined by the ECU on clio's? (timing of the spark I refer to).

Matthew

[MAXIBOY]

i would say a wild cam timed mild.

if you have a mild cam timed wild thats your limit.

if you have a wild cam timed mild you can always time it more aggressively when you get bored/track days/never

[stan]

Can a wild cam timed mild, beat a timed mild cam timed wild? :lol: :lol:

sorry, thats my attempt at being funny...

Scouger your thinking of ignition timing controlled by ecu. But yeah I agree, factory figures are usually best. You can swing the timing on the dyno, but usually your talking altering a few bhp peak for a few bhp mid...or smoothing out a torque curve.

[Dr_S]

What duration are original cams from F7R megane?

Or mybe all spec?

Tnx

[Yanoo_]

Could you tell me all specs of a genuine Williams cam? And I'm wondering what does the timing open-close mean?
Thanks!

[J o n]

I usually look at the lift at TDC and duration for the inlet and exhaust side before deciding, so my new cams that I have ordered are pretty wild, but not too wild, will still run and idle normally to the point you'd not even know the car is cammed.

5502423
291 / 283°
254 / 246°
11.20 / 11.20mm
3.95 / 3.35mm

[stan]

What pistons you running with those mate? or are you having the OE ones modified??

[J o n]

forged larger bore HC Iapel pistons, forged rods, etc etc etc. Not messing about, going the whole 9 yards

[Yanoo_]

Could You tell me what does "timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 62-22" and/or "timing open:18-58 close 58-18 " mean?
Cheers

[stan]

forged larger bore HC Iapel pistons, forged rods, etc etc etc. Not messing about, going the whole 9 yards

:D

[stan]

Could You tell me what does "timing inlet 22-62 exhaust 62-22" and/or "timing open:18-58 close 58-18 " mean?
Cheers

inlet opens 22* before TDC, and closes 62* after BDC, exhaust opens 62* before BDC, closes 22* after TDC.

so duration would be 22+180+62 = 264*

same principal with the other e.g. youve given.

[Yanoo_]

Thanks mate! http://smileys.sur-la-toile.com/repository/Respect/respect-prosterne2.gif

[Tuche Brazil]

264's are generally a good all round cam

As I posted yesterday I am looking for a Cam for my 19 16v build that I going to start soon.

Unfortunatelly here in Brazil is very hard to find someoen that already did this before, and we don't have performance parts for Renault of these age.

Those 264, and even the 258/248, from how many horsepower can we gain running these two cams, are we talking about? Of course with a remap added.

[juuhanaa]

I'm working to get three different engines on dyno same day, so that I can answer this question..

If I manage, I will post the result in this forum. First engine is catcam 286/279, Second is grinded cams 260 degree duration ( measured from 0 lift ) and max valve lift 10,5mm. Third is stock F7P cams.

All three engines has totally different setups, but the cams are all for stock valve springs and lifters.

[juuhanaa]

I'm working to get three different engines on dyno same day, so that I can answer this question..

If I manage, I will post the result in this forum. First engine is catcam 286/279, Second is grinded cams 260 degree duration ( measured from 0 lift ) and max valve lift 10,5mm. Third is stock F7P cams.

All three engines has totally different setups, but the cams are all for stock valve springs and lifters.

Here is grinded 260degree (approx 220degree from 1mm lift). Inlet and exhaust open 1.15mm at TDC and lobe angle aprox 108.

9691

[Tuche Brazil]

As I posted yesterday I am looking for a Cam for my 19 16v build that I going to start soon.

Unfortunatelly here in Brazil is very hard to find someone that already did this before, and we don't have performance parts for Renault of these age.

Those 264, and even the 258/248, from how many horsepower can we gain running these two cams, are we talking about? Of course with a remap added.

I'm still in doubt if I go on the Newman-cams 258/248 or the Newman-cams 264/264. Is it really necessary to install with verniers pulleys in both cases, or is it possible to just assemble in the OEM pulleys?
Please, I really need some good advise because I'cant find almost nothing in Youtube and here in Brazil, nobody in our R19 club did this before.

[Tuche Brazil]

I'm still in doubt if I go on the Newman-cams 258/248 or the Newman-cams 264/264. Is it really necessary to install with verniers pulleys in both cases, or is it possible to just assemble in the OEM pulleys?
Please, I really need some good advise because I'cant find almost nothing in Youtube and here in Brazil, nobody in our R19 club did this before.

Diesel pulleys bought! Just need to choose now between 264/264 or 258/248...

Are those 264/264 that kind of cams that only works in high revs, almost losing from standart in low/mid range?