View Full Version : Gearbox / Clutch problem - Help!
Right, the mrs has a 16v. Since we bought it, the gearbox has been very stiff to change gear, and crunched heavily when putting it in reverse. Also, the biting point is quite low.
I changed the box oil, to no avail.
However, on saturday the cluch cable snapped. Bought a new one on monday - which was a copy not a genuine renault one (only 1 place i could find one on a bank holiday).
Since i fitted the new cable, the problem seems to have got worse. The bite is that low that you only have to move your foot a fraction, and you're away. This problem is strangely worse when the car's warm. I've found myself having to not use 1st gear, 'coz it simply won't push in.
It's almost like i'm not being able to press the clutch pedal all the way to the floor. The new cable seemed to adjust perfectly on the self adjuster.
I've been told by a good mechanic that it's probably wear in the clutch springs. Would this be correct?
I hope so 'coz i ripped the engine out yesterday! Put a new clutch in. Dropped the engine back on its mounts about an hour ago. Popped the clutch cable on, because i was curious to how it feels, and it feels no different than it was before. I'm hoping that this doesn't matter and should be fine when put back together.
Can anyone lend me some advice please?!
Cheers,
Al
Andyvalver
12-04-2007, 15:54
Is the clutch pedal ok? They work on a ratchet type system so they auto adjust. I need a new one in mine cuz sometimes is changes what tooth its on and the clutch bites lower and higher.
Also, get a genuine renault cable are the copies are shite :)
When i fitted the new cable, it did auto adjust it for me. Assuming it's adjusted it right. Looked in haynes manual, and there is meant to be about 2cm of slack in the cable, which there is.
The copy seemed ok to be honest. How much are renault ones?
Never had a problem with the biting changing like yours though, must admit.
Andyvalver
12-04-2007, 16:33
Ah right. cant remember how much the renault ones are as i bought one ages ago. Probably £15-£20.
firstly, buy a genuine cable. second, make sure it is routed correctly. It goes down out of the bulkhead, underneath the column, across the top of the subframe then curves round the side (clipped to the bulkhead) and into the gearbox eye.
Incorrect routing is your problem imo.
is the cable the correct length - eg its not stretched ?
I'll see what happens after i've put it all back together by end of today.
If it's still dodgy, i'll be heading to renault & get a genuine cable.
Pain in the arse! Cheers for replies guys.
Forgot to add - cable is routed correctly, exactly as you said above
mike16valver
13-04-2007, 10:03
I am going through the same problem at the moment as well, :rant:
Only when it is PIPING hot and upto temp ( the car ) i can't select and gears,
and when i have it in gear and clutch down SOMETIMES it creeps....
I have been told, ( dnt no if this is true/correct ) that if you put a SH!TY clutch in them, the heat of the engine makes the clutch expand and thus not dis-engaging / engaging properly...? :s
any views on that...?
have you an engine heat shield. clutches get extremely hot any way so i wouldn,t think so. sounds like a poor quality badly routed cable to me.
mike16valver
13-04-2007, 11:12
PMSL, blame coops, haha, yea there is a heat shield there..
I am off to a guy on Saturday who's going to diagnose the problem (hopefully) for me..
So i will post the result on here on Sunday :D
i'd just fling a cnew clutch in there if its the original, when they are worn theres only so much a new pedal and cable can do!
Mike i'll let you know the outcome when it's hopefully done tomorrow. Your problem sounds exactly the same though.
Went to renault today to order a new cable & a driveshaft roll pin! I'm told it will be there tomorrow, by midday. So hopefully it'll be done tomorrow - all i've gotta do is fill box oil, power steering, put radiator on & fill, put induction kit back on, & put shaft roll pin in. Then i'm done! Thank god!
On second looking at the clutch today, the friction material was nearly down to the rivets, so it would've needed a new clutch soon anyway, so i'm happy enough now!
Will report back tomorrow, hopefully with a fixed problem!
mike16valver
13-04-2007, 22:17
Cheers Alex, Hope it all goes well :D
1995clio16v
13-04-2007, 22:40
Right Ive had enough problems with these bloody clutch cables but mine finally seems sorted.
Ive snapped four of these in 3 years of having my 16v.
Here it is;
1. NEVER EVER EVER use the copy ones, theyre shite. Gen renault ones £13 + Vodka And Tonic. Theyre a lot better quality, you can see it as soon as you compare the two.
2. Routing is crucial to make these cables work properly. When it exits the bulk head, it must go straight down and round the back of the steering column! Not round the front. Then clip the ****er into clips on the subframe.
3. The ****er wouldnt engage into reverse when first done. Kept crunching. Had to switch engine off, engage then fire back up to get reverse. I have used a spacer at the end of the cable, about 0.5cm thick which seems to correct the problem. This spacer has been put on the end of the rubber triangle shim thingy, where it buts up against the first body on the clutch/bell housing.
IMO there is definately a heat issue with clutch cables on clio's. They run so close to the manifold, it borders on illegal! I find that if im stuck in traffic or on a long run etc the cable DEFINATELY stiffens. Im determined to make some sort of mod to this cable to improve the functionality, I think it is possible.
Does the cable feel stiff? If it is then it aint routed right!
:o
bass_direct
14-04-2007, 02:50
3. The f**ker wouldnt engage into reverse when first done. Kept crunching. Had to switch engine off, engage then fire back up to get reverse. I have used a spacer at the end of the cable, about 0.5cm thick which seems to correct the problem. This spacer has been put on the end of the rubber triangle shim thingy, where it buts up against the first body on the clutch/bell housing.
:o
did that on mine, makes the biting point ever so slightly higher and solves the problem
IMO there is definately a heat issue with clutch cables on clio's. They run so close to the manifold, it borders on illegal! I find that if im stuck in traffic or on a long run etc the cable DEFINATELY stiffens. Im determined to make some sort of mod to this cable to improve the functionality, I think it is possible.
That's sounds like a damn good idea. Put up some pics, so we can figure a working thingamajig.
UPDATE!
Car's all back together now. Put the renault clutch cable in. Fired her up - CRUUUNNNNCCCCHHH!!!
Bloody thing is still the same. Now i'm 99% certain that the cable is routed correctly. After it crunched in reverse first time, i de-clutched and every gear went in perfectly. At 1 point i actually felt the pedal change - the biting point went from right near the bottom, to half way up where it's meant to be.
After a few times of the clutch working right, the car is actually creeping with the clutch down after it warming up.
I've had a chat with a few people, and the only thing we can see it being is the self adjusting mechanism on the pedal. Mainly because of the way the pedal adjusted from pressing it, and everything else is new! This ever happened to anyone before?
IMO there is definately a heat issue with clutch cables on clio's. They run so close to the manifold, it borders on illegal! I find that if im stuck in traffic or on a long run etc the cable DEFINATELY stiffens. Im determined to make some sort of mod to this cable to improve the functionality, I think it is possible.
That's sounds like a damn good idea. Put up some pics, so we can figure a working thingamajig.
Try heat wrapping the manifold or the cable itself?
Copy cables are wank - you'll notice the harder you drive the more the way you have to engage the clutch changes - mine incedently when its hot goes all soft and feels like the cables about to snap.
Need to get a genuine one on soon actually but needs must!
yes the pedal ratchet is quite common. not expensive just a pain to do.
you fit a new pivot bush?
UPDATE
Took the clutch pedal off the car today, and swapped it with 1 off our old clio. Was a bitch to re-fit - lots of swearing was done! I did notice that the spring was a bit tighter on the replacement than the old one.
Anyhow, this has sorted the problem completely! Clutch now bites perfectly in the middle, is nice and light, and engages every gear smoothly without a crunch!
So it must've been the spring on the pedal that was the problem all along since we got the car.
Had to laugh though - the exhaust has started blowing since i put the engine back in, probably due to it hanging there whilst it was out. & on the way home, the cat decided to completely come off, making our little clio sound like a rally rocket!
So Mike, you might wanna try replacing the tension spring in your clutch pedal, as it sounds like you have exactly the samem problem i had.
Cheers for all advice guys,
Al
1995clio16v
15-04-2007, 21:44
New clutch pedal, possibly the worst job to do on a clio.
Especially when its hot, i.e the weather = even more swearing!
Good work.
mike16valver
16-04-2007, 08:57
Nice one Alex i mite try that then before i get a new clutch although i am reckoning it is the clutch and here is why....
I went to Blackpool on Saturday when the weather was STEAMING HOT, :shock: it said on external heat temp gauge 25c so was HOT
i was doing roughly 90mph all the way dwn had the odd flutter, getting excited and jst pressing the accelerator abit harder, :lol: anyways...
When i got to the end of the M55 at the first roundabout tried to put it into 1st, OMG :shock: (kinda new this would happen) couldnt EF'ing get it in, soooo i turned the engine off, and then popped it into 1st and then put the clutch is, the EF'ing car started to judder forward, the clutch wasn't even engaging it was none existent :shock:, so i had to turn the ignition and pump accelerator pedal slightly do bump it..
So i reckon it is the pressure plate which must already been weak and worn and expanding due to the heat, because when the engine is cold and i have just started it, i dnt have a problem with no gears at all, ...?
I'd quite honestly try changing your clutch pedal first Mike, as from the experience i've just had, it sounds very much like the trouble i've just had. & changing the clutch ain't a small job! Sayin' that, i'm glad i did mine, 'coz it was nearly down to the rivets anyway, so would've given up soon anyway.
Fixed the exhuast today too! Car's good as now, and i'm in the mrs' good books for about a week!
1995clio16v
16-04-2007, 21:47
I'd quite honestly try changing your clutch pedal first Mike, as from the experience i've just had, it sounds very much like the trouble i've just had. & changing the clutch ain't a small job! Sayin' that, i'm glad i did mine, 'coz it was nearly down to the rivets anyway, so would've given up soon anyway.
Fixed the exhuast today too! Car's good as now, and i'm in the mrs' good books for about a week!
Now awaiting the next problem....haha!
Good work mate!
:o
mike16valver
17-04-2007, 09:15
Mmmm sounds a feasible thing to do that alex...
How much was it & where abouts did you get it from...?
I suppose it may be worth changing the clutch as well, guy i got the valver off (coops):rant: ha ha ha, ran the clutch for 2 yrs :? so it may be worth changing it :roll:..
Whats the thoughts of a Uprated Ren 5 Gtt clutch from GSF..? herd they are a good Buy...? :)
Now awaiting the next problem....haha!
Good work mate!
:o
Cheers mate!
Yeah it's a renault after all! I've already got my next task for it lined up though - re-wire the stereo that was in it when i bought it!
Mike, i got the clutch pedal off the mrs' old RT. They're quite easy to take off, but was a bitch to get back on because of the tension of the spring. The way i did it was putting a small socket either end of the plastic clips, then sliding it on slowly and carefully.
I would imagine that your best bet would be a local scrap yard, or take your pedal off, check the ratchet plastics are not damaged, and just renew the pedal tensioner spring, which was the problem with mine - although i just changed the whole pedal as it was easier and had a spare!
Surely a new clutch should last for more than 2 years unless driven really badly? You could change the clutch mike, but it's either sub-frame off, or engine out! So either way is not straight forward and easy - i took the engine out personally, as have done it before.
The original standard clutch on our valver lasted 117k miles bear in mind, and still had a couple of months use left in it. Although i must admit that it's re-assuring it's not gonna strand your anywhere when it does decide to go!
As for uprated clutches, i've never had any experience of one. I will hopefully be doing a williams conversion sometime in the future, so didn't fancy spending alot of money on an uprated clutch. Although i have heard good things about those R5 GTT clutches, reasonably priced too??? I paid £63 including VAT for the new clutch kit, from Unipart. Was a valeo clutch on closer inspection. Pretty reasonable i thought.
Get that damn pedal changed!!! :lol:
1995clio16v
17-04-2007, 18:20
That's a pretty good price for an OE clutch.
Buy a NEW pedal and ratchet system if your after a new assembly, every time! IMO.
That's pretty good going for the clutch, must be a good example, well looked after. I thought mine was going well on 80k until it needed replacing.
Someone is gonna come on and say stop driving like fannies, I can see its imminent!
Well, if the same thing happens again, i'll definitely buy a new ratchet and spring.
Yeah, the guy we bought it off had it from 6 months old, with FSH, so it's in damn good nick. Engine sweet as a nut fair play!
Well let me assure everyone who's reading, we don't drive it like a ponce at all! The mrs drives it faster than me :roll: :roll:
& i get shouted at when i decide to go quickly! I must admit though, i do shout at her if she boots it & oil temp is not up to norm!
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