View Full Version : E46 M3 Vs Clio 220+
On the way into work this morning and decided to put some V-power in the old gal (as she's now mapped for it) and coming out the petrol station I see a nice silver M3 behind me.
continue driving towards the runway as it's en route to my place of work and he's sat very close, so gave it a little blip and he backs off, so thought nothing of it after that. so carrying onto the runway I get the the round about that leads straight onto it and he's right back on my arse again.
I went reasonably quick around the RA and he was still right there, so I just let rip in 2nd to see what the result would be... to my surprise I pulled a car on him through 2nd, but I did probably get on the power first, even so I was quite pleased at this point. Into 3rd and he just started to edge back and catch, so I thought this was it, he's going past now, so pulled into the slow lane... again to my surprise he almost pulls level and then has to change gear, so I pull on him again, then go into 4th and to my utter amazement pull another car or 2 on him. Speeds were getting high now so I slowed down and he pulled along side pissing himself laughing giving me the thumbs up.... think I'm going to go look for some more M3's later on :lol:
lol, nowt that I could see. power to weight wise their cant be much in it. sub 1000kg Clio with over 220bhp. As the speed rose I'm sure I'd have been battered... well, as soon as I reach for 5th I reckon.
Its not all about power to weight ratio though. Gearing and torque have a lot to do with it too.
My dad has a 53 plate M3, I drove it once and it scared the shit out if me.
He wont let me drive it again as I booted it up the lane. LOL
At twice the power yours pushes out, I'd have expected the M3 to leave you for dead. however, its the driver as always.
true, but it plays the biggest part of the outcome, most cars designed to go quickly are geared well also though and it's also how the power comes in. If you had two identical power and torque cars, but one was running merely cams and the other was a full ITB setup, theITB'd car would be a fair bit quicker due to the way the power is delivered.
Either way though I'd love to have another run at one and test it.
Incidentally the white Mk1 Clio could pull away from these ;)
Get your dad to let you borrow it, there's a quality road to test it near me, can probably hit V-Max too ;) :D
a car with twice the power, but with twice the weight as well...will usually result in very similar performance to the 1/2 as light 1/2 as powerful car.
true, but it plays the biggest part of the outcome, most cars designed to go quickly are geared well also though and it's also how the power comes in. If you had two identical power and torque cars, but one was running merely cams and the other was a full ITB setup, theITB'd car would be a fair bit quicker due to the way the power is delivered.
Either way though I'd love to have another run at one and test it.
Incidentally the white Mk1 Clio could pull away from these ;)
Get your dad to let you borrow it, there's a quality road to test it near me, can probably hit V-Max too ;) :D
We'll get this arranged in a few weeks, either in my Dads, or my mates silver one.
I dont think the weight of these is more than 1500kg's TBH guys. Look it up.
Chris n`nic
20-10-2006, 09:43
Nice one Jon I'm not too suprised tbh....and hardly twice the power of the clio and quite a bit heavier. Cue " I know which car I'd rather have" lol
chris
Nice one Jon I'm not too suprised tbh....and hardly twice the power of the clio and quite a bit heavier. Cue " I know which car I'd rather have" lol
chris
E46 M3 is 440Bhp mate.
Sorry Nyk, it's 343bhp :)
It's certainly not over two tonnes either though 2live :P :wink:
i thought the 355bhp M3 CSL was the biggest power wise M3? never heard of a 440bhp version yet lol??
Seems i'm wrong then, my mates is 440 thats why I thought they all were. I dont think he has many modifications tho.
VIPERONE
20-10-2006, 10:09
LOL.. the main thing is jesus paid £6k circa for his, where ppl with M3s either bought them on tick, or paid £30k
The only way you'd get 440bhp from that engine would be forced induction without resorting to crazy money on Group A parts or similar. Perhaps he's got a tweaked M5 V8 lump in there or something?!
LOL.. the main thing is jesus paid £6k circa for his, where ppl with M3s either bought them on tick, or paid £30k
Jesus Gunner, that was even more predictable than the "I know which car I'd rather have" retort!
dont know really. It has some fancy gearbox in it though. I know that much.
LOL.. the main thing is jesus paid £6k circa for his, where ppl with M3s either bought them on tick, or paid £30k
Jesus Gunner, that was even more predictable than the "I know which car I'd rather have" retort!
but a 172 cup.................... :lol:
dont know really. It has some fancy gearbox in it though. I know that much.
SMG? Tis an optional extra :)
I think he's been telling you porkies about his power figures!
VIPERONE
20-10-2006, 10:16
LOL.. the main thing is jesus paid £6k circa for his, where ppl with M3s either bought them on tick, or paid £30k
Jesus Gunner, that was even more predictable than the "I know which car I'd rather have" retort!
lol-
ok howabout, i'd rather pick a bird up in the m3 and rag the clio around alone.
I doubt it. he bought it only 2 months ago and mapped it himself. He works for Honda F1 and really knows his stuff. It was RR'd by some BMW specialist place down south, I've seen the slips. I dont know what mods he has though.
M3 is a VERY sexy car though. LOL
It's got 120bhp more, it's also 600kg's heavier! Has enough torque to shift it's weight, but so does a sub 1000kg Clio lol.
The M3's tune up very well, you can throw the M50 head on from the older 6 cylinder M5 iirc and this gives them a pretty big power gain...
and those SMG boxes they use a utter crap, they fall to bits and offer no advantage what so ever. It was an option on the E36 Evo, but these are the ones most people avoid.
Agreed, those 'boxes are pretty rubbish. Good fun on its harshest setting, whacking it up and down the gears and letting the management do the blipping though :twisted:
CSL is where it's at. Awesome car 8)
What's all this talk of M50 heads on S54 engines Jesus?! That sounds plain wrong!
This is gonna be very interesting.....
We'll get this sorted in the next couple of weekends Jesus. I'll video the event.
LOL
I'd definately get your mates one along rather than your dad's, Nyk! Otherwise I reckon you could be surprised by the little Clio's pace against a standard M3.
true true. But for a proper comparison we need a standard one really.
lol-
ok howabout, i'd rather pick a bird up in the m3 and rag the clio around alone.
Do you see that Jesus? Gunner's calling you a loner who can't pick up birds!
it's something a lot of the M3 boys and girls seem to be doing to them Matt, think there's a manifold off one of the other M-Power cars that gives really good gains too. They are an excellent engine, Khany's standard E36 M3 non Evo made 301bhp on an RR!
A standard one would be a better test, a modded one's going to beat the shit out of me lol. I'll have my 100shot of Nos ready for this anyway ;) lol
...and lol at Zollo, I'd rather have an M3 too if I'm honest though! Having said that the girls deffo like the Mk2 more than my Williams... they obviously dont have a clue or any taste! lol
VIPERONE
20-10-2006, 10:36
lol...
you should be a defence lawyer....
Ive seen some of jesus' women,
..
in fact no i havent. lol
i look forward to reading more of the tales from the silver side
seanofnp
20-10-2006, 10:38
M3s are 3.0 Straight Six's The E36 M3 Evo (3.2) has 330ish bhp which is by far the engines limitations N/A from that model.
Any newer M3s are bigger capacity and have upto 360bhp? But not over 400bhp I think.
The E36 can go to 400bhp on standard internals. But ofc youll need forced induction.
Sounds like your mates nyk is an M5?
Its def an E46 M3 shell. I will find out and let you all know.
LOL
pmsl, well off to Cambs on Saturday, maybe I'll actually see some decent cars on the same side of the motorway as me this time... but chances are when it does happen Taylor will prolly be driving... typical... happened the other week when Wayne drove it back, get a chance for a TLGP with some stickered up Scooby outside Mehdi's work and he gets to race it... gutted... well, I spose at least he didn't make me look bad, the Scooby driver gave his advantage away by creeping off at first unsure if Wayne was going to boot it, so when Scooby boy finally put his foot down there was only ever one outcome. muhahahaha
M3s are 3.0 Straight Six's The E36 M3 Evo (3.2) has 330ish bhp which is by far the engines limitations N/A from that model.
Any newer M3s are bigger capacity and have upto 360bhp? But not over 400bhp I think.
The E36 can go to 400bhp on standard internals. But ofc youll need forced induction.
Sounds like your mates nyk is an M5?
The 321bhp Evo's do tune up quite well, check the M-power forums, lot of people running over 400bhp N/A form still with nothing major in the way of mods. Remember that ALL 'M' engines are running ITB's
pmsl, well off to Cambs on Saturday, maybe I'll actually see some decent cars on the same side of the motorway as me this time... but chances are when it does happen Taylor will prolly be driving... typical... happened the other week when Wayne drove it back, get a chance for a TLGP with some stickered up Scooby outside Mehdi's work and he gets to race it... gutted... well, I spose at least he didn't make me look bad, the Scooby driver gave his advantage away by creeping off at first unsure if Wayne was going to boot it, so when Scooby boy finally put his foot down there was only ever one outcome. muhahahaha
Do you not find it hard when comparing cars like that tho jesus?
You can have a brilliant driver that you just cant seem to shake off in a car you've prob beat 100 times before and you can have some fag thats scared to boot his car too much. Its hard to get a good comparison really I find. Unless its one of your mates driving the other car or summat.
seanofnp
20-10-2006, 10:46
M3s are 3.0 Straight Six's The E36 M3 Evo (3.2) has 330ish bhp which is by far the engines limitations N/A from that model.
Any newer M3s are bigger capacity and have upto 360bhp? But not over 400bhp I think.
The E36 can go to 400bhp on standard internals. But ofc youll need forced induction.
Sounds like your mates nyk is an M5?
The 321bhp Evo's do tune up quite well, check the M-power forums, lot of people running over 400bhp N/A form still with nothing major in the way of mods. Remember that ALL 'M' engines are running ITB's
I was under the illusion it was its peak.
I also read that the evo model is the worse mechanically wise. Ive read people have alot more problems with them as they werent extensively tested before they started selling them, which lead the issues later on.
Id like an E36 m3 as a family car in the future, you cant fault the fun and luxury of that car for the money, can pick them up for 4k on 100k miles. And these cars go all the way on to well over 250k Ive seen. :)
Not really Nyk, if the other driver is clearly up for a race and are sitting on my arse then trying to force me out the way I know they are game. To be fair I was in the BMW express lane, so he probably thought why this Clio in my lane? but flooring it through the gears is pretty easy, anyone can drive quick in a straight line, even my sister who knows nothing of how to drive quick through the bends could work through the gear on my Williams and her MG TF. The difference between an average and really good driver wont be apparent on a motorway imo, sure, there will be a little lost and gained on gear changes, but I'm not a savage gear changer in a Reno after my first box went. I'm very easy on them these days hehe.
It's best if its a technical bit of road, then you get an impression of who knows their car, own limits, the road and how skilled they are, motorways are easy, anyone should be able to go as fast as the car allows pretty much.
Standing launches are different again though, but most blast I have are from a move, usually on the motorway or local bypass where imo driver skill doesn't really come into play.
400bhp without major modifications from the Evo engine? :shock:
PS. The M50 head isn't an M Power item, hence why I was surprised. The straight-six from the E34 M5 is the S38. I guess that's the one they'd use, perhaps 'cos it's a more simple non-Vanos design with none of the emmissions rubbish needed!
M3s are 3.0 Straight Six's The E36 M3 Evo (3.2) has 330ish bhp which is by far the engines limitations N/A from that model.
Any newer M3s are bigger capacity and have upto 360bhp? But not over 400bhp I think.
The E36 can go to 400bhp on standard internals. But ofc youll need forced induction.
Sounds like your mates nyk is an M5?
The 321bhp Evo's do tune up quite well, check the M-power forums, lot of people running over 400bhp N/A form still with nothing major in the way of mods. Remember that ALL 'M' engines are running ITB's
I was under the illusion it was its peak.
I also read that the evo model is the worse mechanically wise. Ive read people have alot more problems with them as they werent extensively tested before they started selling them, which lead the issues later on.
Id like an E36 m3 as a family car in the future, you cant fault the fun and luxury of that car for the money, can pick them up for 4k on 100k miles. And these cars go all the way on to well over 250k Ive seen. :)
nah, they mostly make around 310-315bhp and rarely make the quoted 321bhp, but there's quite a lot you can do to them for relatively cheap, but big gains..
The Evo isn't really the one to go for, the 6 speed box has a load of problems, SMG's even worse and then there's the dreaded twin vanos unit, which if and when it goes is costing you a couple of grand to put right from a reputable company. The only E36 I'd touch now would be the GT model, it's faster than the Evo, lighter, handlies better and imo is the best looking one of the lot with the nicer front splitter.
400bhp without major modifications from the Evo engine? :shock:
PS. The M50 head isn't an M Power item, hence why I was surprised. The straight-six from the E34 M5 is the S38. I guess that's the one they'd use, perhaps 'cos it's a more simple non-Vanos design with none of the emmissions rubbish needed!
no idea, it was what I'd read on one of the M power forums, E36 register or something like that. quite a few 400+bhp monsters on there and other people were also paying £3k for a total cost supercharger solution from some German company. That was over 450bhp and massive massive torque.
A supercharged 3.0-litre M3 sounds a good value track car :-k
......I wish.
Interesting stuff I can't wait to join the fun lol Just wait till I get mine in 3 weeks or so...then bring jon's, an m3, northy can steal the evo and I'll bob down....oh and camcorder. 8)
Can I join in on my bike? :D
.... I'll get my coat :oops:
Only if you have rick waller on the back lol
Be good for wheelies I suppose :shock:
Found out what the deal is with the M3 for those of you interested.
Its supercharged. :oops:
Was already done when he bought it 3 weeks ago.
O:)
The only way you'd get 440bhp from that engine would be forced induction
:P
I bet that's a pretty awesome thing 8)
pah, still no match for a Clio ;)
LOL
Wen you fancy this run then Jesus?
Can get my dads prob next weekend. Totally standard E46 M3.
I'll be away next weekend, got some work shit to go to darn sarf, so will have to be the following weekend. Is it a completely standard E46 then? If so I think you will be in for one of the biggest shocks of your life. The cars running even quicker now :twisted: muhahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LOL
It is totally standard yes.
I'll let my other half do the driving, I'll video the event.
cool, I'll be sorted for then, we should TRY and have another NW meet and get the gang together, but I cant be arsed organising anymore meets after the last one was such a let down
a n/w 'comparison' night :wink:
I'll just make the tea's then :lol:
milk, one sugar son :lol:
Right I'm gonna cain your ass for cheek!
sounds good Martin, think we both need to show this M3 the way... slow ass German barges :lol:
They are pretty serious machines, but I don't think it will be getting past in a hurry, although I do expect it to start edging away at some stage lol
It will be a good comparison and my other half is one of the best drivers I know. Not saying that in a biast way but he is.
He will certainly give the M3 all it can take and get the most out of it.
:lol:
Sounds like a good showdown this. At least you will know your both going for it as its pre-arranged. My moneys on the clio sub banning speeds but will probably be closer above that.
Slightly un-related but has anybody ever seen a four door E36 M3? A friend of a friend has one and it just looks wrong imo didnt think it was real at first, rare tho!
depends if he can get the power down or will it be all spin?
i have confidence in Jesus tho, as long as its dry.
seanofnp
24-10-2006, 23:46
Sounds like a good showdown this. At least you will know your both going for it as its pre-arranged. My moneys on the clio sub banning speeds but will probably be closer above that.
Slightly un-related but has anybody ever seen a four door E36 M3? A friend of a friend has one and it just looks wrong imo didnt think it was real at first, rare tho!
Coupes are rarer. All i see for sale these days are four door models. And yes, it looks nasty! :(
really? ive only ever seen one and a pic of one on internet. See coupes all the time round here
Yeh i reckon there will be a lot of wheel spin if given death from standing (or wet) but an m3 cant be that great in the wet as tc is sometimes a hinderance. Fairest way would prob be rolling starts upwards. If neither car has traction problems there are no excuses afterwards lol
we'll prob be tryin both to get a good comparison.
seanofnp
25-10-2006, 01:40
My Opinion, if anyone cares, is the M3 will be notorious.
No offense jesus, i just think they are amazing machines. :)
I'm keen to know what a rolling 1st gear start would be like, as rolling 2nd from about 25-30mph coming off the RA and onto the DC I pulled a good car on it before I even came on cam, 4th gear goes quite quick and I was still ahead at 120+mph...
also as Nyk rightly points out... if it's wet it's game over, it will spin 1st through 5th :cry:
no offense taken at all Sean, it's an M3 afterall, so to be expected. I'm confident I wont get my arse handed to me though and quietly confident I be quicker for the most part... not willing to go to V-max in 5th though, would need an autobahn to do that, 1st through 4th should be quick enough lol
Having tried it in both, I can safely say launching a Clio is a lot easier than launching an E46 M3! :oops:
never tried launching an E46, only been in one a couple of times... E36's are piss easy though, get the revs up, dump the clutch and it just goes.
not really tried any standing launches in the 17poo, but the Willy is much easier to just get off quickly with the shorter gearing.
Spinning 1st to 5th in the wet :shock: you running remoulds again Jebus? :wink:
seanofnp
01-11-2006, 03:47
Whens this happening? I cant wait to hear results and see footage? :)
Just waiting for Jesus to be not working.
Think he's been away this weekend.
away this week Nyk, should be back this weekend, not sure if I'll be about though, got some things to sort out, so may have to be a following week... or you can wait til after Xmas when I have a 2.2 bottom end...? :lol:
seanofnp
01-11-2006, 14:33
away this week Nyk, should be back this weekend, not sure if I'll be about though, got some things to sort out, so may have to be a following week... or you can wait til after Xmas when I have a 2.2 bottom end...? :lol:
What is that from? :)
it will be my new 2.0 Cup engine (or 182 engine) being rebuilt with forged steel parts, so still a Clio BE.
seanofnp
01-11-2006, 21:03
Nice, whens that going ahead?
How you bringing it upto 2.2? What kinda power your looking at?
going for bigger pistons, lightened and dynamically balanced, steel rods, crank etc etc, looking around 250ish bhp, also getting 182 manifold and eventually headwork. I'd like 300bhp from NA, bit of a push I know, but if it can remain drivable then that's my aim
seanofnp
02-11-2006, 00:14
Sounds like its going to be crazy! Cant wait to see it.
Im looking at ph1 172s at the moment, especially in yellow. Im really loving them and have some nice ideas for one.
seanofnp
09-11-2006, 18:07
Comeon we wanna see this!!!!! ;)
yeah they look pretty cool in yellow, shame they never did a white one though!
will be soon hopefully, I'm in the process of getting a custom made braided steel PAS line for my car though as there's a fluid leak from the pipe attached to the pump itself.
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