View Full Version : My 449 to 432 Respray by whitestar
whitestar accept that mate, they know smokey is in the right
but smokey hasnt asked for whitestar to sort the car out [which whitestar wouldnt do, but could get it sorted no problem]
smokey said he wasnt happy with the car when he came to pick it up but he blamed the 4 hr train trip for him not saying anything there and then. he just wanted to go get his wheels refurbed and get home.
the car isnt beyond repair, it's paint, it sands off.......holes havent been cut into the bodywork or nowt :roll:
At a bodyshop of my choice?
Because of the 4hr train journey and the fact I had to get home (Cambridge) from Birmingham within 1hr:30mins during evening rush hour I didnt get my wheels refurbished........I ended up doing them myself..............I would of waited had they not had primer and paint on them.
The car is far from beyond repair...........It needs shot blasting back to bare metal and starting from scratch.
My mrs said she will even help you out Daz if you want to go for compensation as you had to scrap your car.
Cheers matey, I think i've put it all behind me now and learnt a lesson out of it but thank your better half for me :D
At the end of the day yours was/is worth much more than mine was and something good came came from the bad...
<------- 8)
I just hope everyone from this incident gets the outcome they want/deserve.
I was going to be using WHitestar for mine next month but have been tied up with getting my 2 litre engine fitted and chipwizard remap.
A post like this helps in my decision as to what to do next and I will now have to look elsewhere for bodywork.
Thanks to Smokey for letting people know and hope it gets sorted.
needlebarn
26-06-2006, 10:21
And the reason the jobs are cheap is to get more business [mechanics also] not because of the quality of the job.
you said ' i was never expecting it to be a professional finish' well for £300 imo you got a job worth the value. if you dont like that, then you should of gone and got a 1800 pound spray job.
?????????? Which one is it ???????????
Cheap to get more business, or cheap due to the inferior workmanship ?
Yea i did do some prep work on ur car, but not loads and im still not working for my dad, i was lending a hand.
later denied
i have 3 lawyers that will defend the case under the company i work for name.
This ones a personal favourite, comedy genius, WC Jr cant even construct a sentence, yet has managed to get 3 lawyers together, surely their first piece of advice would be "stop posting on this forum" ?
I think these quotes are the deciders for me, Smokey spends every post delivering a well executed, informative answer, purely asking for a clear answer or resolution, which Williams Jr follows up with a misspelt tirade of insults and poorly backed up arguments, pulling his dads name down purely by association.
Fair enough, not everyone can spell, and also granted, not everyone has a decent brain, but there is no need to lie in desperate attempts to clear your name. You said it was nothing to do with you WC Jr, its nothing to do with me either, but i havent made 20 odd posts claiming i know what happened to that poor car.
Keep digging dude, im sure your dad will thank you when he has to pay for the respray anyway, at least you managed to take his reputation for
A: customer service
B: staff background checks
& C: accountability for actions
down with you.
That was all your own work, nobody elses.
Great Job.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Smokey, i hope this mess gets sorted out ASAP, shame it had to be you, but if you hadnt posted, im sure there would have been someone else writing exactly the same thing in about a month.
david_johnson
26-06-2006, 11:08
In Performance Cars Ltd v Abraham [1962] 1 Q.B. 33
The fact that your car was booked into a body shop indicates that the car was already in a bad state of condition. It is therefore unlikely, even if you win, that Whitestar would be liable for the whole costs of the repair.
'When C sought to recover the whole cost of the respray from B, the court held that B was responsible only for the additional damage inflicted on the already damaged vehicle.'
Basically i think that if White star sand blast / sands the panels back to a condition ready for spraying, you would then be responsible for the cost of the respray, as in essence you are back where you started (ie with a vehicle that needs a respray).
The case isnt 100% relevant to yours, but it just goes to show that the law would protect Whitestar, such that you could not expect to be in a better financial or materialistic position compared to before the incident.
I also think that because you drove the vehicle with wet paint you have no chance of winning. If white star prove they informed you of this, and prove that it would damage the paint, you have no case. So all they have to do to prove this is print out this thread.
'I turned up your dad had only just laquered the bonnet...and it was soaking wet.......because of that I had no intention of leaving it there another minute......'
'I wasnt expecting a great job'
I think youve nailed your own coffin by saying these things. Youve admitted driving it with wet paint and youve admitted you didnt expect a great job for £300, implying the job will indeed reflect the price.
Basically i think that if White star sand blast / sands the panels back to a condition ready for spraying, you would then be responsible for the cost of the respray, as in essence you are back where you started (ie with a vehicle that needs a respray).
I dont agree there, how can sand blasting a car get it back to where it was before it went in. There will be no paint left on it !
There will be more prep work needed to a BARE SHELL that than what whitestar did to smokeys originally.
david_johnson
26-06-2006, 11:29
Lets face it if you could walk into a spray shop and give a couple of youths 150 quid to spray your car. Then claim your not happy and sue them to then take your car to a Ferrari garage for a full 4k repspray then everyone would do it.
If you think that a judge will see it any other way, check out my ebay auction for ocean front property in Birmingham.
basically there are too many people 'guessing' what will happen and court cases ect, nobody knows its going to court ect yet so just see what happens when smokey posts on progress fellas :wink:
guys, lets just leave smokey to get on with it now. Whatever i have said in this thread doesnt matter because i have no connection with my dad except blood. I dont work for him, never have never will do. So if u wanna drag up little quote "needle-barn :wink: " thats fine, im not worried, whatever way it's going to go it's going to go. and look! :D smokey has got himself a little fan base of arse lickers now, thats is of course needle-barn exists :D
I have printed off the pages DJ thanks man, and smokey has also.
lets just see how it rides out and whatever happens happens
and i can spell needle-dick, when im on forums i type quick and noone judges me by my spelling because its just pointless and pathetic. hardly anyone spells perfect on forums so try and find a better insult next time :lol:
david_johnson
26-06-2006, 11:49
Its not a guess Rich, its in case law. The whole point of law is that courts and lawers use previous cases to rule on present ones. Once a disicion goes one way, future case will likely follow the outcome of the first. The first case sets a precedent for future cases.
My effort is not going to be 100% accurate, but its better than the hysterics and bitching that has filled this thread so far.
'In law, a precedent or authority is a legal case establishing a principle or rule which a court may need to adopt when deciding subsequent cases with similar issues or facts.'
i appreciate what your saying david, but i just think that nobody actually knows for sure whats going to happen, and as where you were saying the car muct have been in a bad way before the respray is not esentially true as the job was a colour change so not necessarily the case. also nobody knows the conversations had between whitestar and smokey on the day except what has been said on here.
my basic point (as said) is just that there is a lot of speculation without 100% knowedge of all angles thus making it pointless on saying what will happen (not taking either side of the arguement btw)
Can i just say..... i don't really wanna get to involved in this but id just like to say...
The shell is not Fu*ked enough to need sandblasting back to bare metal. The paint was put on thick but im sure it had hardener in it so it went off...
if it was properly flatted back to the base coat it would be fine...
just my opinion... :roll:
In Performance Cars Ltd v Abraham [1962] 1 Q.B. 33
The fact that your car was booked into a body shop indicates that the car was already in a bad state of condition. It is therefore unlikely, even if you win, that Whitestar would be liable for the whole costs of the repair.
'When C sought to recover the whole cost of the respray from B, the court held that B was responsible only for the additional damage inflicted on the already damaged vehicle.'
Basically i think that if White star sand blast / sands the panels back to a condition ready for spraying, you would then be responsible for the cost of the respray, as in essence you are back where you started (ie with a vehicle that needs a respray).
The case isnt 100% relevant to yours, but it just goes to show that the law would protect Whitestar, such that you could not expect to be in a better financial or materialistic position compared to before the incident.
I also think that because you drove the vehicle with wet paint you have no chance of winning. If white star prove they informed you of this, and prove that it would damage the paint, you have no case. So all they have to do to prove this is print out this thread.
'I turned up your dad had only just laquered the bonnet...and it was soaking wet.......because of that I had no intention of leaving it there another minute......'
Was told it would be fine after a polish
'I wasnt expecting a great job'
Big...infact huge difference between a great job and one that is not even a resonable job
I think youve nailed your own coffin by saying these things. Youve admitted driving it with wet paint and youve admitted you didnt expect a great job for £300, implying the job will indeed reflect the price.
Bonnet was stone chipped and a few light scratches here and there.
Could of replaced the bonnet for £75 and probably polished out the scratches.
Or got offered a full respray by an Aston Martin approved sprayer by a company that had been doing bodywork for ages and trying to drum up there own business through williams clio as recommended by the son of the company Williams Jnr aka Gavin
Was led to believe it was only to be a few at this price then price would go up to 'full' amount.
Was led to believe he had proper kit i.e drying facilities, oxygen feeds, dust extractors, spray booths.
Gavin having nothing to do with it.........he contadicts himself all the time.
It all turns out to be a load of bollocks.
This all amounts to the Trade descriptions act
David_Johnson or Rob - This is what it looked like the day I dropped it off
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/smokey182/Hybrid/DSC01749.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/smokey182/Hybrid/DSC01748.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/smokey182/Hybrid/DSC01750.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/smokey182/Hybrid/DSC01756.jpg
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/smokey182/Hybrid/DSC01758.jpg
bad state of condition is it? :roll:
well to let u know as far as iam aware he does have insurance.
but also, if you decide you do want to go down the crazy route of courts and all that then its going to take a long time and cost you alot of money because i have 3 lawyers that will defend the case under the company i work for name.
I dont want it to go that way, you hopefully dont, and nor my dad. But he doesnt have solicitors etc, but smokey u do, ur girlfriend iirc or whoever.
So lets see how it goes, but i wouldnt expect it to be over within a week if u do decide to go the court route, because i will use all 3 lawyers, and it doesnt cost me nothing.
i want too see ur car fixed mate, i really do. But im sure this can be ressolved without legal action.
Dont make me laugh Gav
My mrs works for http://www.taylorvinters.com/ in Cambridge who have 300+ Lawyers/Barristers/Locom's working for them.
Here, just for you......I will have my own 'Commercial disputes' team working on my case as this is a 'commercial dispute'
http://www.taylorvinters.com/services/commercial_disputes.html
Want to meet my own personal team? http://www.taylorvinters.com/default.asp?MIS=133
The cost does not matter to me....As you are probably aware Im not poor!
I am going to pay for the repair out of my own pocket and claim it back one way or the other once it has been sorted.
I have been advised this could get nasty (hence why I have not contacted your dad) and could take 6 months+
However the longer the better for me really as I will also claim compensation.
Should I win, your dad will have to pay my legal expenses should i lose my legal representation is free and I will just pay your dads legal expenses.
The longer it takes the more it costs...... Just for your info my mrs hourly rate through Taylor Vinters is £95ph
P.s Why do you need 3 Lawyers? Are they all that bad :wink:
P.p.s What area of Law do they specialise in?
I'm sorry but reading that it seems that you are being a COMPLETE arsehole!!
Yes you aren't happy with teh spray job, and maybe you ddn't notice when you first got it back, maybe you did.
But if i had problems with a spray job the FIRST thing i woudl do woudl be to contact teh company that had sprayed it and discuss possible options with them, rather than posting it up on a public forum.
For all you know he might have paid to ahve the car collected, and resprayed to a mint condition and delivered it back to you at no cost, but he is hardley likley to do it now after all this shit.
Initially i was on your side, but now i think you are taking this WAY outa context and making a HUGE issue outa this.
If you 'asren't poor' then why travel such a large distance to ahve a £300 spray job, why not have it done 2 miles down teh road and paid more?
Its amazing how many "new" people have posted on this thread! :lol:
Its amazing how many "new" people have posted on this thread! :lol:
Only just saw it and decided to read it :roll:
Scott-16v!
26-06-2006, 13:40
Its amazing how many "new" people have posted on this thread! :lol:
Only just saw it and decided to read it :roll:
I think she means the people that have registered in June and have less than 10 posts on the forum yet have massive posts in this thread, i.e. 'needlebarn' and 'david_johnson'
One of those things really, other customers have been happy with the work so maybe it was a one bad job, but still saying this i was going to take mine the next day had the cash ready ect but deicded against it after seeing this post
well to let u know as far as iam aware he does have insurance.
but also, if you decide you do want to go down the crazy route of courts and all that then its going to take a long time and cost you alot of money because i have 3 lawyers that will defend the case under the company i work for name.
I dont want it to go that way, you hopefully dont, and nor my dad. But he doesnt have solicitors etc, but smokey u do, ur girlfriend iirc or whoever.
So lets see how it goes, but i wouldnt expect it to be over within a week if u do decide to go the court route, because i will use all 3 lawyers, and it doesnt cost me nothing.
i want too see ur car fixed mate, i really do. But im sure this can be ressolved without legal action.
Dont make me laugh Gav
My mrs works for http://www.taylorvinters.com/ in Cambridge who have 300+ Lawyers/Barristers/Locom's working for them.
Here, just for you......I will have my own 'Commercial disputes' team working on my case as this is a 'commercial dispute'
http://www.taylorvinters.com/services/commercial_disputes.html
Want to meet my own personal team? http://www.taylorvinters.com/default.asp?MIS=133
The cost does not matter to me....As you are probably aware Im not poor!
I am going to pay for the repair out of my own pocket and claim it back one way or the other once it has been sorted.
I have been advised this could get nasty (hence why I have not contacted your dad) and could take 6 months+
However the longer the better for me really as I will also claim compensation.
Should I win, your dad will have to pay my legal expenses should i lose my legal representation is free and I will just pay your dads legal expenses.
The longer it takes the more it costs...... Just for your info my mrs hourly rate through Taylor Vinters is £95ph
P.s Why do you need 3 Lawyers? Are they all that bad :wink:
P.p.s What area of Law do they specialise in?
I'm sorry but reading that it seems that you are being a COMPLETE arsehole!!
Yes you aren't happy with teh spray job, and maybe you ddn't notice when you first got it back, maybe you did.
But if i had problems with a spray job the FIRST thing i woudl do woudl be to contact teh company that had sprayed it and discuss possible options with them, rather than posting it up on a public forum.
For all you know he might have paid to ahve the car collected, and resprayed to a mint condition and delivered it back to you at no cost, but he is hardley likley to do it now after all this s**t.
Initially i was on your side, but now i think you are taking this WAY outa context and making a HUGE issue outa this.
If you 'asren't poor' then why travel such a large distance to ahve a £300 spray job, why not have it done 2 miles down teh road and paid more?
Firstly Tom, I dont need or want you on my side or anybody for that matter when TS, CAB & DTI are all on my side.....If they wasnt on my side im sure one of the 3 associations would of told me im wasting my time and to eat humble pie and forget it.
Which would you buy?
Williams for £300 from Scotland
Or what you was led to believe would be the same from the guy next door for £3000?
Being rich or poor does not come into it. The price mearly promted me to act quick as it was a short lived offer. The other alternative was to get it done in 2/3/4/5 months time.
If I had of sold the Hybrid, it may of never got resprayed as it wasnt in a bad way as you can see from the pics above.
One things for sure thou, My car would not of been re-sprayed by Whitestar if I was told the truth from the start..........FACT and thats what im disputing and have every right to in my eye's.
The fact they was pleased with there work and the lies told to me is why I didnt want to give them the opportunity to put it right.
That post that made me seem such an arsehole was me putting a point across to WJ, he started on the 3 lawyers crap and my point was to show him that im not bothered who he has on his side. I wouldnt of posted it along with alot of other stuff if he hadnt of provoked it out of me.
Other members that had arranged to have theres re-sprayed have PM'd me to tell me that they was not led to believe it would be a crap finish either and was told similar stories to myself.
At the end of the day, Pre respray my car was worth £4k+, now i'd be lucky to get £2k for it.
In our eyes a respray by a professional bodyshop will take it back to its £4k value where it should be, after all the time and money that I have put into it.
So I would not be in a better financial or materialistic position as our friend David_Johnson has stated.
Anyway.........The ball is in Whitestars court and I await there response.
If there is anything worth mentioning good or bad I will post it up otherwise I will leave it as its starting to annoy me now having to justify my actions when its blatantly obvious to all but a few mates of WJ's!
P.s Cant wait to meet Judge Judy in the flesh :P
lol, I heard she doesn't shave her legs :wink: :wink:
If by judge judy you mean me you can see me in teh flesh and i will tell you exactly the same thing.
I'm not on anyone's side
As Flan said paint is paint you won't need to take it back to bare metal
bass_direct
26-06-2006, 15:42
If by judge judy you mean me you can see me in teh flesh and i will tell you exactly the same thing.
I'm not on anyone's side
As Flan said paint is paint you won't need to take it back to bare metal
He doesn't mean you mate! :)
he means..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/285000/images/_286878_judy150.jpg
If by judge judy you mean me you can see me in teh flesh and i will tell you exactly the same thing.
I'm not on anyone's side
As Flan said paint is paint you won't need to take it back to bare metal
Since when have you been a black, American, female and a small claims judge?
It will take more then 1 post to get me to have a dig
Your correct, it does not need stripping back to bare metal, but the paint on my car was not dry before the laquer went on and all the new stuff needs stripping off. It will take a better man then me, more money and more time to try to sand blast only 3 layers off leaving the rest in tact rather then blasting the whole lot in one go.
I dont know im not a sprayer, but 2 bodyshops have told me this is what they would do should I give them the work.
So which is it? The Scottish Williams or the Brummy Williams? :lol:
If by judge judy you mean me you can see me in teh flesh and i will tell you exactly the same thing.
I'm not on anyone's side
As Flan said paint is paint you won't need to take it back to bare metal
He doesn't mean you mate! :)
he means..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/285000/images/_286878_judy150.jpg
I think lunner uses Veet anyway \:D/
just a quick one smokey, what ever u was led to believe about what facilities were being used, u saw the conditions my dad was working in u was at the unit for a good hour b4 u left.
u didnt see a oven or anything like that so dont talk that crap
also, people aint sticking up for me because there my 'mates' there just saying ur talking 50/50, 50 truth, 50% bollox.
As said if you had contacted whitestar b4 u started this thread ur car would of probably been sorted [not by whitestar] but by someone to get it back to the '4k condition' which, it isnt worth anyway!
But, as u said, ball is in whitestar's court, lets see what happens
just a quick one smokey, what ever u was led to believe about what facilities were being used, u saw the conditions my dad was working in u was at the unit for a good hour b4 u left.
u didnt see a oven or anything like that so dont talk that crap
also, people aint sticking up for me because there my 'mates' there just saying ur talking 50/50, 50 truth, 50% bollox.
As said if you had contacted whitestar b4 u started this thread ur car would of probably been sorted [not by whitestar] but by someone to get it back to the '4k condition' which, it isnt worth anyway
But, as u said, ball is in whitestar's court, lets see what happens
I saw what looked like a mechanical garage, no sign of a spraying unit with these big proper fans, fed oxygen supplies or heaters you have mentioned. But none of the other doors were open on the other barns/units (maybe shut to keep the dust out) and I didnt see what was around the back.
So where is your unit with its proper spray booth as you mentioned in your 1st post on this thread.
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4598&highlight=
I will even copy and paste the relevant paragraph and even highlight the Gem:
" brought the car standard 3 months ago, horible looking thing cuz the prev owner couldnt give a Sh*t about what his car looked like, since then i have got a 16v bonnet, 16v front and back bumber & front arches. I have a 16v full interior except the dash which im in the process of buying, and i also need some blue seat belts. Ive got the dials ready to be fitted and im looking for some williams wheels. oh and i need the spoiler.
This should be finished in about 4 months, i own a unit with some mates with its own spray booth and my mate is a fully qualified spray painter so the blue n gold is sorted. This car should look awsome when it is done and im only gonna keep it till Feb next yr so if anyone wants it after me stay in touch"
How about this one, this cracks me up
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11668&highlight=whitestar
"Prices are very competitive, and workman ship is flawless! "
Or even this
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13935&highlight=whitestar
"guys! i dont do f**k all to do with my dads company, the only link i have with whitestar is that im related to the owner
the only thing i do there is re-build my r5 engine. I dont get involved, so in future [stew-punk] dont mention my name cuz i dont wanna get dragged thru the dirt, i aint got nothing to do with it"
Sorry who's the one that chats garbage?
Now show me something you believe to be untrue that I have said and I will try to back it up with hard evidence.
Oh and by the way, Adrian flux agreed valuation of £5500 like for like on modifications......I was being conservative with £4k+...........do i detect a hint of jealousy or just bitterness in your tone :lol:
LaurenGTI
26-06-2006, 19:51
[/quote]
Since when have you been a black, American, female and a small claims judge?
[/quote]
Shes not actually black...altho has a great tan I must say!! :lol:
do i detect a hint of jealousy or just bitterness in your tone
nah i dont like ur car mate :D
and yer i did have a unit with a spray booth :D in cannock, then we got rid as one of the lads' mrs got pregnant and moved away...so up ur arse
gav, i dont mean to be rude......but honestly, to help your dad out DONT say anything further.
Everytime you post it just makes everything look worse and worse from your side, and i expect your dad is cringing at every post.....if he's seen them.
You provided an invitation to treat basically, now you have 'nothing' to do with anything and you dont 'care'. Its really not a good outlook on the whole thing.
Best thing to do when someone is pissed and proceeding via legal means.......keep schtung!
i go to then smokey comes on here talking bullshit and making it look worse!
if he had just got in touch with whitestar at the very beginning insted of coming on here posting stuff that doesnt concern anyone!
Granted my posts dont help my dad but they dont make it worse. The only connection i have with him is blood, so really im just an observer so i can say anything because its not reflecting my dads views.
whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen, my posts wont change that because im nothing to do with the company
again i wont say anything further, but we all know smokey is gonna come back on, talk some more shit and i will post again.
You might not think your doing anything wrong, but even the smallest slip up (and it has been a few) can bite you in the ass when it really counts.
reminds me of a quote i once heard.
"When one lies, the person usually follows it up with another
When one speaks the truth he never has to remember what he said"
honestly, in the most friendly manner, your really really not helping your dad at all. You provided the 'adverts' for him, so you cant just discard responsability.
well he isnt going to sign up to forums just to advertise mate. Not when im already a member.
But, ok man, agreed, again i wont reply in this thread, from now on i will jst skip past it everytime a new post is on.
:roll:
sorry to bump this up, but what happened in the end?
**** its just taken me the best part of 3/4 of frost gump film reading this and i was hoping the conclusion at the end ie waht the hell happend???
did smokey win and get his car back to a mint state or did whitestar win and do nothing to his car
god what happen :? :? :? :?
some one please fill us in.
settled out of court iirc car was probably scrap after the paint job
You might not think your doing anything wrong, but even the smallest slip up (and it has been a few) can bite you in the ass when it really counts.
reminds me of a quote i once heard.
"When one lies, the person usually follows it up with another
When one speaks the truth he never has to remember what he said"
honestly, in the most friendly manner, your really really not helping your dad at all. You provided the 'adverts' for him, so you cant just discard responsability.
this made me laugh... so ironic on so many levels I almost wet my pants laughing :lol:
jesus....i could do a better job myself with rattle cans!
spikey-ben
24-09-2008, 23:04
You might not think your doing anything wrong, but even the smallest slip up (and it has been a few) can bite you in the ass when it really counts.
reminds me of a quote i once heard.
"When one lies, the person usually follows it up with another
When one speaks the truth he never has to remember what he said"
honestly, in the most friendly manner, your really really not helping your dad at all. You provided the 'adverts' for him, so you cant just discard responsability.
this made me laugh... so ironic on so many levels I almost wet my pants laughing :lol:
And it all starts again BenR vs The Jesus :D :D
Have been most entertaining post for ages
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