View Full Version : willy2 vs impreza wrx sti
rochdale_williams
27-04-2006, 18:37
had a bit of a dabble the other night with an impreza wrx sti. raced him up the a627m slip road. from a standing start upto 120 we were dead level. nothing in it, with me on the outside lane. surely this can't be right cos they supposed to be wickedly fast. guy looked absolutley gutted.
tbh.u shudda started pulling away slightly at that speed, ...above 125-130.they only go backwards.
sounds bout rite mate yes.
If it was a classic shape I'd say you've done really well they are 280bhp and not as fat as the new un's....turbo owners keep a whole book full of excuses though lol
'It's in low boost at the mo...'
'yeah I was in stuck traffic and got heatsoak on the intercooler'
etc
VIPERONE
27-04-2006, 23:02
from a standing start you did well.. the grip they provide is a help....nice one..
you hit the limiter on that chip yet? lol
the sandbrook traffic lights that face the 627m are great.. its like a drag strip..
Must b fooked, or a WRX dressed up, lets be realistic, sti's are supercar pace up to 100mph, 0-60 4.6secs, 0-100 11.7 secs aint no FWD getting power down to the road like that, ain't no slouches up to the limiter in 5th either, can see a well tuned willy keeping with them topend but come on PULLING AWAY??????? Must make a point now of finding out the drag co-efficient of a Mk1 as i'm now intrigued, from word of former owners mouth my willy is approx 170hp, a really fit little car, will toy with Type-r's all day but not a chance in hell would it give the standardest STI in the world the slightest hint of bother!!!!
That said what kinda mods u run?
i dunno......iv had to back off wen racing sti RA spec versions.these being lighter and slightly more tuned than the sti.....iirc....
but then, it wasnt from standing, always rolling lol........sway the balance of advantage my way a little. lol
but u know these scoobs....always blowin turbos, or as martin said..with a bootful of excuses
rochdale_williams
28-04-2006, 09:11
only running staraight thru pipe, chip, filter and some minor weight saving. hit the limiter a few times. definately an sti though. car seems to pull well against most things. ran out of road or would have gone to 5th gear red line if needed.
how do people fare against focus RSs, work in a ford main agents and noone reckons i'd get close.
iv had 2 do's with a frs on the bypass in keighley...pulled on him, but he well outbraked me into the r/a s then i pulled back after..
and the 1 at donny...he boxed me in so i had to let him past...had it not been for us both gettin stuck in traffic, then him pulling into the pits i dare say id have panned him too...this was in 2 diff cars tho
This is the kind of thread that gets linked to other forums for a laugh. I'm not taking sides either way!
my friend has an impreza wrx, ive raced it hundreds of times in my hybrid and from a rolling start i will gain a car or 2 on him but on pull off he will gain a couple on me, i honestly cant see an almost standard willy matching an sti unless of corse his has a problem which isnt unlikely.
This is the kind of thread that gets linked to other forums for a laugh. I'm not taking sides either way!
I know what ya mean!!!!
Don't doubt a WELL modified Clio will keep too when rolling, but the Extreme acceleration and grip levels offered from a standing start in a 4X4 with 276bhp should have seen him WAY up the road, (or are they really shit compared to Evos???)
I love the Willy to bits, but unfortunatley it ain't half the car that the Evo is, although not an Impreza lover i see the STI as a match (when both in standard guise)
:?
Don't doubt a WELL modified Clio will keep too when rolling, but the Extreme acceleration and grip levels offered from a standing start in a 4X4 with 276bhp should have seen him WAY up the road, (or are they really s**t compared to Evos???)
:?
It's 261bhp for a UK STi, so not quite on Evo pace. The PPP equipped cars are about the same though?
I think the bhp/tonne is very similar between a UK STi and a modded, lightened 2.0-litre Clio. Just still seems hard to comprehend!
^^^^ I know, i cant get my head round it either, i'm not doubting anyone, as i've been made to look silly by the strangest things going up the strip (lexus Soarer, OLD '36 Ford Coupe, DAMN 4x4 Fiesta Sleeper - got him back next run :oops: ) it's just that i drive an evo every day, and even going back to when it was a standard car, it was so Superior to anything i'd ever had, and i've had a few, trust me, like zollo says it's hard to get ur head round!!
Anyway Scoobs are the sworn enemy, Go find him and do it again bud, Well done
:wink:
rochdale_williams
28-04-2006, 14:41
am going york on sunday so will try and line up next to one. suprised me how well the willy did. should have the lot 1/4 mile times and 0-60 figs
Rochdale Willy, I had a do with a blue one, newer shape on the exact same road and it sounds like the exact same model... newer shape with 260bhp, but weigh almost 1500kg's... yeah, really gonna struggle against that :roll: :lol:
sorry, but these cars are NOT fast, even with an imagination as big as a Scooby drivers. I was able to absolutely take the piss when I raced one, backing on and off before he moved over when I was into 5th... he soon went backwards. I wouldn't worry about what people on here think, everyone hails the Scooby's as some supercar, but in truth they struggle to get low 15's in newer guise and rarely make a good 14 second pass... shite. an Evo is WORLDS apart, unless of course you happen upon a proper Impreza, like a JDM Classic or WR1 etc...
it makes me laugh when everyone goes on like all Scooby's have 1000bhp and are all some super light weight model... it's a budget road rally car wannabe, only a handful of the models deserve respect. most are poverty specs for people that couldn't afford a proper Evo
lol^^^
from a standstill the scoob will pullaway from u.........anywhere else in the range, rolling, 30+ etc..the clio will be a match for it no problem, unless its seriously tuned or a p1., 22b, wr1 etc.
same can be said for the mitsi's tbh.....once rolling....they arent that fast unless its one of the higher specced models
thing is most Mitsi's are higher end models... you'll be able to keep a standard 280bhp one fairly honest to a point, but breathed on or tuned ones are right animals. the best Scoobs however are usually about as good as the poorest Evo... but they are the fastest car in the world still however... :roll:
there are so many cars that are quicker than the WRX and STi's now. look at most manufacturers and they will have a non performance model that will shat on it. BMW and Merc diesels will easily spank an Impreza WRX, 530d BMW, or 320d merc etc... dont understand what the hang up about them is really, even the hallowed RA wasn't impressive.
Andyvalver
29-04-2006, 11:35
According to letstorquebhp...
Impreza WRX Sti Type UK 02 plate has 180.40 bhp/ton aint much more than a williams when you take into account the transmission loss by 4x4
Williams... 155.52 bhp/ton
thing is most Mitsi's are higher end models... you'll be able to keep a standard 280bhp one fairly honest to a point, but breathed on or tuned ones are right animals.
:twisted:
Tell me about it
Thing with the Evo is that I know no matter what happens the best I can hope for is to keep up with it (unless its broke), you wont beat them, but with a Scooby 75% of the time I'd expect to be right on it or pulling away, as there are about 20'000 varients and most of them are shit... lets torque bhp lists about 3 or 4 fastuns, the rest are laughable, hence why you HAVE to mod them.
clowo16v
29-04-2006, 15:03
There was a Volvo S70R racing at York which was quicker than a Evo 8 and most of the imprezas.
Matt
dunno bout the evo s mate..i was behind an evo 6 round oulton...was well holdin me up.....ok, it pulled on me accelerating out the corners, but after the initial 1/2 1 car legnth it pulled, the gap stayed, then i started pullingh on him, then another corner lol.....this was while danny t was in the car.....while i had craggy in it was the evo 7....he was a fair way in front of me, and i was chasing a quick scooby, which had passed me but only really seemed to pull a gap on the last corner...i caught the evo but he pulled into the pits as i came up close to him....id been trying to catch him for about 3-4 laps...he was comin out of knickerbrook as i was comin over the brow at the start.which is a fair gap really.
I've been all over a evo 3 and scooby sti's at the track.....they were'nt pulling but neither was I quite even oh and Moosemans rx7 at donny was almost the same pace too....had a few laps following him round :)
It's surprising what the little clios can do with some choice mods...
According to letstorquebhp...
Impreza WRX Sti Type UK 02 plate has 180.40 bhp/ton aint much more than a williams when you take into account the transmission loss by 4x4
Williams... 155.52 bhp/ton
Erm, did anyone else notice this ^^^. Ok, transmission loses will count against the Scoob, but it would still have to be a very fast Clio to be as quick.
All this talk of Subarus being shite is bollocks. Some people aren't solely interested in straight-line street races.
i did a subaru wrx 96 model at pod if that helps
Zollo, have you actually driven any Impreza's or raced any? I've driven and raced a fair few different models and most of them are pants. UK spec laughably slow for classics, newer ones shit unless over 300bhp... what else is there to say? Then there's the handling... which is absolutely shite if you ever drive one. Understeers and has too much mechanical grip, even with Prodrive. Poverty spec rice burners, good when tuned and played with, but a far from complete package when you buy them. 172's are as fast ffs... :roll:
Zollo, have you actually driven any Impreza's or raced any? I've driven and raced a fair few different models and most of them are pants. UK spec laughably slow for classics, newer ones s**t unless over 300bhp... what else is there to say? Then there's the handling... which is absolutely shite if you ever drive one. Understeers and has too much mechanical grip, even with Prodrive. Poverty spec rice burners, good when tuned and played with, but a far from complete package when you buy them. 172's are as fast ffs... :roll:
I've straight-line raced a lightly modded UK Turbo in my GTi6 and kept up with that, had a 5-mile twisty A-road race with a (Classic) WRX STi in my 205 and just about kept up with that, although I was struggling, and had a straight-line race with a WRX Bug Eye in my Williams (running a decat and cat-back system, full interior at the time) and it was very even (maybe it was modded).
Only driven one Impreza so far, a 260bhp WRX Classic, and although it was a long time ago, I remember it being a lot faster than a Williams! I'm driving a WRX Wagon next week, so I'll let you know what I think of that.
I'm not saying they're untouchable straight-line monsters, but they're not built for drag racing. They're just very capable point-to-point cars.
VIPERONE
02-05-2006, 01:01
ive had a 55plate sti out for the day i wasnt impressed
Not had a do nor driven an STi. But I used to get ask Scooby/Williams comparison quite a bit as I had a mk1 Legacy RS turbo (200+ bhp) for about 4 years before the Williams. My reply was - it depends on the driver and driving condition.
Because of the engine characteristics, the scooby is not an easy car to drive really fast. Had to do things like left-foot brake, heel/toe and pre-load on take-off just to keep up the boost. Once the revs drop below 4k rpms, it's worse than a Toyota Corolla and it takes an age to spin it back up. Whereas the Williams is easier in that sense. No need for any rally-driving throttle shenanigans. As long as it's rolling, just plant your foot and it gets up to speed quite quickly. So, on longer and/or lightly trafficed roads - I think my old scooby would be a faster.
With regard to straight-line acceleration between 80mph to 150mph. To be honest, in the 4 years, only a 911 turbo managed to pull away quite comprehensively from the scooby. Most other cars were "Bye Bye" in the rear view mirror. But at under 100mph acceleration - if I was driving both cars - I think they would clock about the same times. But, as always, keeping the scooby revs above 5k rpm is critical, or else it's advantage Williams.
This is the kind of thread that gets linked to other forums for a laugh. I'm not taking sides either way!
lol....i had this wen i posted on cs years ago...id been gettin held up by a lotus elise on a back road...for like 10 miles+.......i posted it n got slated.....'ur williams will never be as fast point to point as an elise etc etc etc'
true.it wasnt as fast..............it was faster :shock:
This is the kind of thread that gets linked to other forums for a laugh. I'm not taking sides either way!
lol....i had this wen i posted on cs years ago...id been gettin held up by a lotus elise on a back road...for like 10 miles+.......i posted it n got slated.....'ur williams will never be as fast point to point as an elise etc etc etc'
true.it wasnt as fast..............it was faster :shock:
I've passed Skyline GTRs, Caterhams, Exiges, Evos and Subarus on the track. As have a lot of us. But I wouldn't for one second say a Williams is a quicker car than any of them.
yes iv passed them on track too........as well as the road....
if iv passed summat, and i know the driver is giving it as much death as i am.....and i pass them.....id say my cars quicker.......no argueing....no ifs no buts....
straight line speed i was all over him.....round the twisties i was very wary of him cos i was cornering a hell of a lot faster...even gave him head starts on the straights and still ended up monstering him........so yeah.....id say i was in a quicker car.......
u??
So what you're saying is all drivers are equal and it's just the car that makes the difference then?!
in a straight line...pretty much yeah
as i said i was giving the guy room on the corners......and a head start on the straights...i reckon even an untrained chimp can put the right foot on the pedal then press it to the floor.
I thought you were talking about point-to-point, as in going around corners as well. Yeah, agreed, it's pretty easy to go fast in a straight line.
also the guy at donny wasnt exactly bein a pussy wen he was driving his either....but yet i was in a slower car than mine ;).and still pushing him round til i passed him......does that mean im a better driver or have a faster car??
clowo16v
02-05-2006, 12:10
It was like that thread on barryboys where they were arguing that a Clio wouldn't keep up with loads of stuff.
They kept saying "yeh but thats down to the driver" when a Clio caned an Elise or whatever. Surely every Elise driver in the country can't be shite, or can they?
Matt
sounds like 3 clios encountered 3 elises....all had same results..all the elise drivers must be complete shite then..thats that arguement settled lol.
All I'm saying is it's pointless saying one car is quicker than the other based on their performance with two different drivers. Tiff Needell can lap Anglesey in 53 seconds in a Z4 3.0. Is that because he's a better driver than Martin (driving a very light, semi-slick shod Hybrid) or has a better car?
lol......but we not talkin about tiff needell are we??
were talkin about ur average joe public with a fast car......
3 diff elises, 3 diff drivers, 3 diff clios, 2 diff drivers.same outcome.
i know the little clios arent the fastest cars in the world..but they cant half surprise more modern, expensive supposedly better machinery. no matter whos driving it.
can u imagine if tiff hadv took martins out round anglesea?? martin was runnin 54.4.......so not that far behind......and the bmw is supposedly the much better faster car is it not??.......with tiff the much better faster driver is he not??
would be intresting...but until it actually happens all we can compare with is real world encounters......the ones that actually happen.......and so far theyv all thrown up the same results.............except i got beat by one years ago with adi n craggy in the car.........so thats 3-1 still in the clios favour....
But according to you, with a little practice we'd be as good as the likes of Tiff Needell, and other ex-F1 drivers, so we're pretty much even there!
I don't have issue with you being able to beat a 118bhp Elise, or any other version either. I also agree that these Clios are very capable cars that are able to beat a lot faster machinery, mainly cos they're easier to drive fast. I've made the point when others have belittled them in the past. Incidentally, though, any decent Hot Hatch will do much the same job.
Either way, I still think it's pointless comparing cars driven by different drivers on twisty roads or on a track. Straight-line is a different matter, it's much more down to the car.
Which is why I can totally understand why someone wouldn't believe the outcome of a Clio against an STi, but that, knowing what tuned Clios are capable of, wouldn't disbelieve it myself. Hence my original post...
This is the kind of thread that gets linked to other forums for a laugh. I'm not taking sides either way!
we have had nowhere near the practise tiff has etc.....but yeah i reckon given as much free track time as them/him wed be pretty close.
like i said tho mate......most ppl live in the real world.and most ppl wont let u take the keys to their car after uv just beaten them so u can find out whether it was the car or driver that ud just beaten.
we can only go on our experiences with the cars and drivers..i spose im guilty of believing that most drivers are on a par with me.....a fairly average driver. u make me sound like im some kinda demi god behind the wheel, for me being able to beat average drivers so easily....lol
Swervin_Mervin
02-05-2006, 13:10
I got a passenger lap in a S2 111R yesterday and we were following Martin. Gap stayed about the same. Both driving well.
seanofnp
02-05-2006, 13:12
Theres a pure and simple test being carried out to proove its the driver and not the car in most respects...
look at the Top Gear Celeb wall times... All in the same car, yet some are faster than others. Even in straight lines a driver can be shit and **** gear changes and even have bad starts.
we can only go on our experiences with the cars and drivers..i spose im guilty of believing that most drivers are on a par with me.....a fairly average driver. u make me sound like im some kinda demi god behind the wheel, for me being able to beat average drivers so easily....lol
Very true, we can only go on our experiances. But it's important not to then base a range of car's capability on your experiences with one of them, because 1. You have (or did have!) a very quick Williams and 2. You're a fast driver. As Sean proves, a hell of a lot of it is down to the driver.
There are probably some Elise owners that have wasted Clios at track days, and by the same token, they'd be wrong to call our cars shit because of it!
Anyway, you must be pretty good, hearing of some of the scalps you've had in your van. Unless you reckon it's the diesel beast that's to thank?! :twisted:
lol.i think its more the fact that the brakes are shit and the weight of the flywheel just spins the engine faster on downchanges lol.......gets a bit scary..ask andy lol
u make me sound like im some kinda demi god behind the wheel, for me being able to beat average drivers so easily....lol
Manage that by your self Live!!!!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
..i spose im guilty of believing that most drivers are on a par with me.....a fairly average driver.
:lol:
vavlerpete
03-05-2006, 21:25
All i'm going to say is..........................LMFAO.
:roll:
VIPERONE
03-05-2006, 21:55
**** me valver pete..how do...long timeno c!
Jesus, you gay-ass, aids-infected knob (just thought I'd get it in before you :P ). After having a very long drive in one, I reckon a PPP equipped MY06 WRX (260+ bhp plus, but lighter than a UK STI, so slightly quicker) will easily be a match for a modded Williams in a straight-line or down a twisty road.
My mate also has a PPP WRX and, from a third gear corner of around 50mph to a underpass on a motorway, these are the following results. Plus a few other cars for comparison...
306 Diesel (for a base figure!) - 100
Williams (decat, zorst, filter, 7k-limit chip, no spare or rear interior) - 126
Golf R32 (old shape) - 128
Golf GTi Mk5 (this felt like an unusually quick one)- 130
PPP WRX - 133
It's even a Wagon, enabling it to carry the usual set of wheels, tool kit, engine parts that Willies always carry around.
and at wot speed does it run out of steam??
the ppp that is....
tbh i dont usually have a prob with scoobs, unless they heavily modded, once rolling.....like i say...the RA spec one was the last one i raced...no competition......an i know the lad CAN drive
... so it's not just me that thinks most Scooby's are over rated... funny how this thread aint kicked off yet... mind you, maybe Jim's mum hasn't read it out to him yet :lol:
rochdale_williams
07-05-2006, 15:48
looks like i open a can of worms on this one. i stand by what i said. subarus are the poor mans evo. nowt to write home about
looks like i open a can of worms on this one. i stand by what i said. subarus are the poor mans evo. nowt to write home about
Have you driven one?
They're not a poor man's Evo at all. They cost the same amount for a start :roll:
Yes, they're not quite as rapid as an Evo, but they're a better prespect for day-to-day driving, sound awesome and, to some, look nicer. It's not all about being faster than everything else!
Having said all that, I'd get an FQ Evo over an STi, but that's my personal preference and I realise Subarus are still decent cars. They're only over-rated by Subaru owners, and that's the same with every car :roll:
rochdale_williams
07-05-2006, 17:48
driven many a subaru, used to work in an import garage. they're just not the force people have built them upto be. plain and simple. seen the start of this topic with my own eyes. can't argue with that
Fair enough. I guess I don't really care whether they're a couple of car lengths slower than an Evo, Williams(!), etc, just so long as they're fun to drive, that's what makes a car good IMO.
VIPERONE
07-05-2006, 20:06
SUBARUS ..i only ever see asian drivers in them
rochdale_williams
08-05-2006, 10:33
each to thier own i guess. prefer the williams for some unknown reason to myself. great all round car. asains love the subaru innit
clowo16v
08-05-2006, 11:10
its cos they iz a turbo innit aiiiiii
Jesus, you gay-ass, aids-infected knob (just thought I'd get it in before you :P ). After having a very long drive in one, I reckon a PPP equipped MY06 WRX (260+ bhp plus, but lighter than a UK STI, so slightly quicker) will easily be a match for a modded Williams in a straight-line or down a twisty road.
My mate also has a PPP WRX and, from a third gear corner of around 50mph to a underpass on a motorway, these are the following results. Plus a few other cars for comparison...
306 Diesel (for a base figure!) - 100
Williams (decat, zorst, filter, 7k-limit chip, no spare or rear interior) - 126
Golf R32 (old shape) - 128
Golf GTi Mk5 (this felt like an unusually quick one)- 130
PPP WRX - 133
It's even a Wagon, enabling it to carry the usual set of wheels, tool kit, engine parts that Willies always carry around.
tbh mate..lookin at the speeds..and the mods on the willy...id say its a slow un........r32 ffs....they shite
lol
My thoughts exactly!
Seems most cars out there are shite and over-rated. Unless they're particularly quick examples of Mk1 Clios. :wink:
did i say that??
errrrrrr no.
i jus dont sign up to this...newer/more expensive is better theory.
the golfs iv had a few dos with.....quite a few vr6s too , in both 2wd and 4 motion.....only time they come past is wen im on the limiter in top....well.for the 2wd s anyway....
i give credit where its due.......and tbh none of the golfs above really deserve the credit imo
but then....u can always throw the driver arguement in.....yes even on a straight motorway lol
Well, you've not said that exactly. That's why I said seems, though, cos you give the impression that every car as shite if it doesn't stack up well against yours or Jesus's particular example. And when a Williams isn't as quick as yours, it's referred to as a slow one.
no mate i jus dont give credit out easily....
and the 'slow ones' lol......mine is reknowned as a freak.albeit with little substance.2 diff engines..same speed.lol......so to me that says mine is an average williams...how they shud all be......
if i come up against a car that supposed to be a lot faster..like the scoob arguement etc, and it gets beaten....then yeah..id say the other car is shit....maybe u arent that critical, but for me , if something doesnt live up to all the hype and expectations..then in my eyes ..its shit...especially if i can beat it in me 12 year old french hatch.
like the vts' of this world..i have slagged them off yes...but ive never said they are slow...or shit.....i respect them, why??
because like the little clio, out the box they are pretty good. with a few choice mods they can beat the supposed better machinery..jus like the little clio.
so if i come up against a vts..i give it teh respect it deserves.....because they do actually live up to most of the hype about em.
not a lot of cars out there do imo actually live up to all the hype that surrounds em...altho to be fair, i havent compared against a few id like to, to see how they fair.
and the 'slow ones' lol......mine is reknowned as a freak.albeit with little substance.2 diff engines..same speed.lol......so to me that says mine is an average williams...how they shud all be......
LOL
So if yours is an average one, where are all the fast ones? And if yours is an average one, does that make all the others slow ones?
in std trim yeah.......mines average....in modded trim.its one of the fast uns..go figure lol
theres a lot runnin in the 14s now...... and quite a few that will beat mine...so make of that what u will.
where are the fast uns..........obviously......all up north.....;)
where are the fast uns..........obviously......all up north.....;)
Hopefully all at FCS for the tracktime :wink: :D :D :lol:
lol, not all. mine's blown a brake hose at the MOT station... funny that now i cant even drive it and they are braided... go figure... looks like i'm going to have to spend yet more money on it :roll:
in std trim yeah.......mines average....in modded trim.its one of the fast uns..go figure lol
Define std trim. If it's what you're running now...14.6 - name me another non-cammed Williams that's done that. And exactly what % of Williams do you think can keep up with your 'average' Williams in its current trim?
theres a lot runnin in the 14s now...... and quite a few that will beat mine...so make of that what u will
A lot? How many? And even then the majority of them will have cams and management work, or be stripped of everything bar a shell!
Mine is an average Williams (hell, it even produced more power than a number of other F7Rs at the recent RR day) and I reckon the majority of Willies out there will have the same results if they were up against an R32, Scooby, etc. So to say those cars are shit because your Williams eats them for Breakfast is like saying the majority of Willies out there are slow too (no matter how many times you say otherwise).
Slower than average Northy. Rubbish!
But good results for NLRG on the HP rolling road day mate 132.0 & 118.2 ft-lb torque.
Pitty the two fastest williams in the north couldnt make it
:wink:
:P
True. To busy showing drivers that they bought the wrong car probably...
"Look - instead of driving round in your quiet, refined, reliable, well equipped, nicer looking, better sounding, safer, more spacious, more secure and stable car, you could be driving around in a 12 year old Clio that pulls two car lengths up to the top end of fourth."
"...Oh, but wait, if you do want one of these better machines, make sure you buy it up North. In fact, wait until I've sold mine, cos although it's just average, oddly it's faster than all the rest and they're all slow uns."
:shock:
Gosh, getting noisy in here, lads. Fast or slow, can we at least agree that the clio, on an unknown bit of bumpy, twisty road, is one of the quickest thing on 4 wheels? :) Or not even that? :D
:P
True. To busy showing drivers that they bought the wrong car probably...
"Look - instead of driving round in your quiet, refined, reliable, well equipped, nicer looking, better sounding, safer, more spacious, more secure and stable car, you could be driving around in a 12 year old Clio that pulls two car lengths up to the top end of fourth."
"...Oh, but wait, if you do want one of these better machines, make sure you buy it up North. In fact, wait until I've sold mine, cos although it's just average, oddly it's faster than all the rest and they're all slow uns."
:shock:
lmao........
mine in std trim....de-cat zorst and filter.....std enough to me lol.....ran 14.6 secs 1/4 mile. so northy an andy not far behind at 14.8/9, my old willy 2 ran 14.8s, think monkeys was 14.7 ish b4 mods., ben red 16s valver was the first to run 14.8....4-5 years ago, matt browns old red un..14.2s i could go on and on.....so yeah..id say mines pretty average...lol
and i havent even started on martins numerous beasts..or mehdis...
if u want to buy a quiet ,refined etc car fair play......but dont expect it to be evrything the hype says it is wen u come to actually put ur foot down...
the scoobs etc are supposed to be 'ALL THAT' according to mags and media etc..........they arent.....simple as......some ppl jus seem blinkered to this.......or ignorant.
some models are 'ALL THAT'.......and actually perform as well, better than the hype......i havent come across one meself yet on the road...but i have on track..
funny how the argument has changed form 1 person beating a scoob......to how my driving is better than anyone elses(according to ur good self) then to how much better than any other williams ever built mine is, again according to ur good self......u have a complex or summat?
mine in std trim....de-cat zorst and filter.....std enough to me lol.....ran 14.6 secs 1/4 mile. so northy an andy not far behind at 14.8/9, my old willy 2 ran 14.8s, think monkeys was 14.7 ish b4 mods., ben red 16s valver was the first to run 14.8....4-5 years ago, matt browns old red un..14.2s i could go on and on.....so yeah..id say mines pretty average...lol
So if the above are average semi-std cars, where are the fast ones? To have average cars, you've got to have fast ones. Or is it only average and slow?
Either way, I've read you say (numerous times) that yours is a quick un - Pre-cams, with-cams, post-cams. I can get the quotes and links to the pages if you like? According to you, it's always been a quick un.
If my car is faster than an R32 up to a 100, and that should do a quarter mile in 15-dead, then - very losely - there's no reason to think mine is a slow one. Therefore, my comparison figures still stand. That was my point. Unless all cars should be compared to with your car, or at least your chosen examples?
if u want to buy a quiet ,refined etc car fair play......but dont expect it to be evrything the hype says it is wen u come to actually put ur foot down...
the scoobs etc are supposed to be 'ALL THAT' according to mags and media etc..........they arent.....simple as......some ppl jus seem blinkered to this.......or ignorant.
some models are 'ALL THAT'.......and actually perform as well, better than the hype......i havent come across one meself yet on the road...but i have on track..
Well, I've come across Scoobies that have proven the hype. No one has ever said they're straight-line rockets in the media, just that they're quick cross-country cars. So if our experiences vary, then my opinion will differ. And if you're going to solely use your experiences to judge a car's abilities, then expect some disagreement!
funny how the argument has changed form 1 person beating a scoob......to how my driving is better than anyone elses(according to ur good self) then to how much better than any other williams ever built mine is, again according to ur good self......u have a complex or summat?
A complex? Damn right! :oops: You'd be lead to believe everyone bar the elite few have inferior cars if you think anything much less than yours is a 'slow un'. That's my whole point :lol:
As soon as a car doesn't stack up to another as well as yours.... slow un. Gee thanks!
when our lass had her WRX it would leave me in any gear on the motorway - even with me cheating lol. That car was a bog standard import. Was for sure quicker than my 3.
When racing chris n nic - we were two up on him and would only just pull a small gap when chasing from behind.
We all know chris's is a quick one. I'd say that WRX would have done a 14.0 very easily if she had managed to keep it and have it 1/4miled. But some lowlife put a stop to that for us !
Posted: Tue May 09, 2006 9:25 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
2 live wrote:
mine in std trim....de-cat zorst and filter.....std enough to me lol.....ran 14.6 secs 1/4 mile. so northy an andy not far behind at 14.8/9, my old willy 2 ran 14.8s, think monkeys was 14.7 ish b4 mods., ben red 16s valver was the first to run 14.8....4-5 years ago, matt browns old red un..14.2s i could go on and on.....so yeah..id say mines pretty average...lol
So if the above are average semi-std cars, where are the fast ones? To have average cars, you've got to have fast ones. Or is it only average and slow?
Either way, I've read you say (numerous times) that yours is a quick un - Pre-cams, with-cams, post-cams. I can get the quotes and links to the pages if you like? According to you, it's always been a quick un.
If my car is faster than an R32 up to a 100, and that should do a quarter mile in 15-dead, then - very losely - there's no reason to think mine is a slow one. Therefore, my comparison figures still stand. That was my point. Unless all cars should be compared to with your car, or at least your chosen examples?
who said anything about chosen examples.....iv given MY opinion fromMY experiences in MY car.
ur comparisons....wot about driver?? are the cars ur comparing against good uns?? we could go on all day
these arguments jus go round in circles.u have 1 opinion...i have another
if urs is quicker than the r32 up to 100......fair play.....but i dont think it would lose that much ground to it after that even in std trim.....so i deduct from that that the williams u were comparing in was not quite as it shud be.
worded better for ya??;)
Well, I've come across Scoobies that have proven the hype. No one has ever said they're straight-line rockets in the media, just that they're quick cross-country cars. So if our experiences vary, then my opinion will differ. And if you're going to solely use your experiences to judge a car's abilities, then expect some disagreement!
quite a few ppl have had the same experience with them as i have......i am not alone on this one ......and i expect plenty disagreement where ur concerned tbh.
as u..i ...and evryone else does.....we go by our experiences. if i race the same spec/model etc car several times and beat it convincingly, then i think the correct outcome is the other car isnt as fast.......u disagree
A complex? Damn right! You'd be lead to believe everyone bar the elite few have inferior cars if you think anything much less than yours is a 'slow un'. That's my whole point
As soon as a car doesn't stack up to another as well as yours.... slow un. Gee thanks!
thruout this thread u will have noticed something......that i consider mine , as average....so MY opinions are that all the williams' shud be around same speed, so in my way of thinkin i spose wot ur sayin is in fact correct....u have it seems bought a pup ;)
who said anything about chosen examples.....iv given MY opinion fromMY experiences in MY car.
You talk of your car, then when it's referred to as fast you pick a load of chosen examples to make out that it's average. Those chosen examples! Am I boring you yet?! :P
ur comparisons....wot about driver?? are the cars ur comparing against good uns?? we could go on all day
these arguments jus go round in circles.u have 1 opinion...i have another
if urs is quicker than the r32 up to 100......fair play.....but i dont think it would lose that much ground to it after that even in std trim.....so i deduct from that that the williams u were comparing in was not quite as it shud be.
worded better for ya??;)
Yes, thank you :D :wink:
Jon's car isn't fast at the moment though, it's actually slow as ****. it's running less than standard spec as everyone knows and therefore NEEDS the chip to run the times it was doing as standard... on the road it was marginally quicker than mine when I was on std limit (to about 110 anyway) and about even with the Kill Power chip after a reset... but from the times at York it was around the same as other Williams there... I've not heard Jon say it's a quickun for a good while... since the Kent experience infact lol...
so at least someones been listening lol.
well to me it's pretty bloody obvious that your car's not what it was, only have to take the chip off to see what difference the Willy head makes... so basically with the chip your back on normal Willy pace... slightly quicker than a lot, but other similar spec'd ones getting equal and better times. When it was a full spec I'd not say it was much or any quicker than when I had the same mods in mine... low mile new engines are why there is such a difference, and the odd high miler that's been treated amazingly. Mine's no faster with the new engine, but imo my last engine was deffo a quickun when compared, especially when it would pull on other Willy's whilst off cam... It beat BenR's old Scoob and the GDI 182 when the cams were fitted too.
wont say it was slow as fek bejesus - didnt pull on me until the extra revs came in to play - then its one car length straight away.
Chris n`nic
09-05-2006, 11:50
I have had a few plays with cars listed and my opinion was
Had a go with a few different scoobs...dougies was circa 260bhp classic and it was very even from a 50 roll to just over 100 where he usually gives up...Me and Northy had a go (not sure of the power) and again was pretty even (although I reckon now it would be a different result..especially not going a bloody huge hill lol) Both classics...only had a few goes with newer ones and not come up against a good one, but obviously a well tuned one will hand my ass to me
R32 him with 2 passengers me with 1 up the same huge hill...80 mph he moves over and boots it...I came past him till I hit 5th gear where he crept past as mine was only holding it`s speed..top of the hill where we slowed and again mine was much quicker
Golf GTi I was very impressed with..not raced since I sorted mine but b4 that it was very even..nice car and a lot quicker than people think. Problem is he is saving for a remap so when he has 250+bhp I think I might be struggling lol
Williams recently had a go with Monkeys and it was pretty even...different areas of power for both of us.
chris
compared to what it was it was slow... you weren't there when we both had a race when his chip was off... difference was immediately obvious, in that I'd put my foot down, almost hit him and have to break, to then get back on the power and be backing off again, so after that it was a case of just over half throttle to keep up... the chip has basically put it back to standard and imo you can take 0.1 to 0.3 off for Jon's launch ability, on the road it's average now I'd say... even the Kill Power chip sticks right to it, with a clone of his chip I'd say for certain that I'd pull as soon as the pedal is pressed and continue to.
Your aint that far behind anyway mate, what do you lose to the limiter? bout 2-3 cars total? not really much considering the range of speed.
yep.....the car with std chip was dire ...imo....lol
i was flat out on roads i know well.....and had john backin off the throttle behind me...obviously by some ppls comments that makes him the better driver than me nothing else.....but to me.it was the car that was slower.
the std chip lasted about...errrrrr..3-4 hours max...car felt quick valver pace, maybe not even that fast..the diff the chip makes jus seems to bring it back to std speed...which is where it was b4 cams etc...which i view as a fairly average time now.
you must be one shit driver then 2 live! :wink: :lol: pmsl
Chris, good stuff mate, I've spoken to Dougie before at the RR day and that's when your car was okay, but having off days... he said the same thing, couldn't believe you were all over him. Shame he only raced to 100 though, as he'd pull a car or two to 120, then you'd reel him back in if my races with Sy's and Mike's Impreza's are anything to go by!
Anyway, where's BigYimmy! i thought he'd have his bag pipes out by now blowing more hot wind into the thread... because clearly he knows best with his vast experience :roll: :lol:
Maybe it's just his car that's shit slow and this is an envy type thing, I really have no idea, but there's people that say and people that do and if your ever in the area and I'm still unfortunate enough to own the Williams then I'll be more than happy to blast your shit box into the weeds and show you first hand what a strong engined Williams will do... until then shut the **** up boyo as you have contributed nothing worthwhile (by that I mean your opinion :wink: ) and not substantiated anything at all. You may think I'm lying, again, couldn't give a crap, but then that would make a lot of other people liars as well and as i've been out in both the above posters cars and raced various different machinery I can both take their word and have first hand experience of it too... check some vids of these cars, there's plenty about, it's not anyone else's fault your too ignorant to check them, just makes you look foolish mad sad little friend.
Jon's car isn't fast at the moment though, it's actually slow as f**k. I've not heard Jon say it's a quickun for a good while... since the Kent experience infact lol...
Why do you think I reckon it's a quick one, when I read stuff like this?....
mine seems to be one of the fast uns...........but with 2 diff blocks......so if theres a reason for the slow runnin 1s i would say it isnt in the block....
mine now runs meg btm end std 1800 valver head, std willy cams.....again its still quik enuff to give the more modded ones a good run for their money
i dunno mate tbh......seemed to pull pretty well like. lol
im not entirely convinced that mines that much slower than it was b4 tbh, for some f**kin bizarre reason. seems to jus wanna go fast......no matter wot engine spec is under the bonnet lol.
Or a whole thread...
http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8246&highlight=
funny how the argument has changed form 1 person beating a scoob......to how my driving is better than anyone elses(according to ur good self) then to how much better than any other williams ever built mine is, again according to ur good self......u have a complex or summat?
And where do you think I get that opinion of your driving from?...
you can pretty much flat them out in a std williams with a combo of skill, balls and the right car... 2 live deffo has the balls, cos he's a f***king nutter, he almost has the skill :wink: (for an old man! lol) and he deffo has the car... him on coilovers and completely stock engine he left me, putting in a whole section of road between us... also bearing in mind I was a s**t load faster in a straight line at that time as he was using std ecu as well
I disagree with you a lot because you disagree with yourself. You say you're an average driver, but you never disagree when someone says you're a super-quick nutter behind the wheel. You say your car is average, yet you're quite happy to say it's a quick un and it keeps up with all the fast ones.
I'm confused! I'm agreeing with what you and others say. I'm saying your car is fast and you're a quick driver, yet you're disagreeing with me because you want to make out all Willies should be as quick as any Scooby under 260bhp or quicker than an R32 up to 145mph.
no no no Mr Zollo, I think your getting things a bit twisted here mate... I have always said i'm a very average driver, no one has ever said I'm a nutter or an amazing driver to my knowledge. I drive sensibly 90% of the time, it's these bad influences around me and it's always me saying "you lot are ****ing nutters".
I never said mine was average, I think it's quicker than most, as it's always kept up with most other or been quicker with less mods and usually some kind of mechanical problem. Other people say 2 lives car is a freak but he's always said the same, its about average. Other people say it's a freak and it's one of the quickest, but I guess it depends who you speak to, as most of the 2.0 Clio's round near me have all been about as quick as Jons... The nana, Mehdi's white one before TB's was almost identical... yes, these are hybrids but Jon has mainly raced hybrids and believes there to be no difference... I say the same, only difference is most are lower miles and or rebuilt... Jon's is rebuilt, mine's on 24k, the hybrids usually run low 14's, therefore Jon's car is average in his eyes. It's condition dependent, I've always said this. Newer lower mile F7's are faster, 2 lives being one of the quickest... but it's not THE quickest... although it's only got 16k or so, so there's time yet.
Sorry mate, I was talking about Jon's driving and his car. Just using your comments. :)
I don't have a problem with Jon having a quick car and being a quick driver at all. In fact, it's good that there are such quick Willies out there. Just annoying when he expects them all to be up to his and other Northern beast's standards. And uses his car/driving as the bench mark to judge all cars against!
And before this thread, I have never heard him (or anyone else) refer to his car as average!
aah sorry, thought you meant me for a second... gonna say, when's anyone said that!? pmsl
a few are about as quick as Jon's, but I'll admit, not many, but that to me is how an average 'low mile Willy' should be and indeed is. Most have tired higher mile engines imo and when I have raced said examples they have lost out, but lost out big over 110... that might just be the cams though :lol:
TBH I'd expect all Willy's on Jon's mileage to be as fast, or faster. You could argue his old engine is a freak, as it's on 70odd thou and ran 14.6, but I never raced it when in even spec, but I'd expect ANY low mile or rebuilt and properly run in Willy engine to be taking the car over the SQM in around the mid 14 second marker.
Ok, I concede, I have a slow Northern Williams then! But compared with the rest of the world's Willy population, I still reckon it's average and you lot have the fast ones :oops: . Perhaps we can refer to Jon's as an average low-mileage fast one?!
I'm sure there must be an elite bunch of Subaru owners who own 'average fast' Subarus too. Perhaps they're all tucked down here, along with all the fast R32s and Mk2 GTis! :wink:
*Edit - Hang on, wasn't Andy's Williams referred to a Freak, even though it got 'just' a 14.8?*
lol, you cant concede that until you have a go against one of us lot... next time your ooop norf make sure you have a go against one of the lads... imo they cant all be fast one's, there has to be an average, but ALL the really quicks one as you refer to them have low mile rebuilt engines... only a handful of higher miler ones that still perform from what I have seen.
GazTwo's and Northy's kids are low mile ones and both really quick. An average mile for year Willy would almost certainly need breathing mods and a chip to hold pace.
It applies to any car, more miles = more wear in most cases. Factor in the age of the car and it seems as though we have quickuns (low 14's), average ones (mid to high 14's) and the slowuns (15's). There will invariably be the same problem on other cars, more so with scooby's, but that's not my problem, dont race if your turbo's not running right! The advantage of the scooby is that they aint all 13 years old, so wont have as much moss on the pistons lol (if they aint melted already that is!)
Ok, my target is set - to become an average Northern Williams, I need a high-14. Will do my best to get to the next Clio-attended Santa Pod RWYB :twisted:
our kids can keep up with mine thats has had £500 spent on manifolds, decats and catbacks to get a 14.89
Andys did it with just a decat @ 14.90
Hes now got a magnex for it and im sure with a replacement airfilter his will be in front of mine.
what miles are yours and Andy's on now Richy?
Mine is on 86k :(
And Andys has just opened the doors of 44k
But when we 1/4miled mine was something like 78k and andys 43,999k lol
this is what I mean, lower miles vs high mile same engines... I know they need to break in, but there will come a point where they only wear. bet if you were to rebuild yours after a couple hundred miles it would pan Andy's, especially with the mods (and the cheating chip :wink: lol)
tbh 2live I felt sure your car would do mid/low 14s after the comparisons on the way to york....but both our cars were'nt really on top form imo.... If you brakes were in perfect order and you nailed the start I still think it could get under 14.5 in this spec....
Just to add my 2p imo Any williams on stnd cams & ecu in the 14 is deffo a quick un' this takes some doing ! Once you add chip most willys should sneak in the 14s...if not it's most likely a slightly tired example.
We are also missing the ability to 1/4 mile in this little debate too....practise makes perfect..this can make as much as 0.3/4 difference.
tbh martin mate.im happy with the times it got .....taking into account the spec. as martin says, the 1/4 does take a little practise...which im out of at the mo lol.
which is also why i think best comparisons are on road, rolling.
as for me never disagreeing with ppl about my driving ability...wots the point?? i have my opinion, they have theirs...my driving may look diffrent from outside the car to how it does inside....e.g. someone following me may think i took a big risk hitting that corner at xxx mph...whereas inside....it may feel that planted to the road that it feels like u could do another xxx mph and still get round easily.
i cant help that....iv said this fr years....most of the ppl that come on the regular meets all have a good drivng ability, which i see myself no better or worse than most...hence being quite an average driver. we all take risks....none more so than northy....iv seen him pull off crazy manouevres that i wouldnt dream of...hes been called a nutter, he hasnt disagreed either.....so he must be the better driver than me also.....seeing as tho he passed me , in the quicker car than he had at the time, in one of those manoevres.
i think im quite a chilled driver now, again something iv said for years....in my teens, yes .i admit i was a bit of a lunatic behind the wheel...but u get old, and the risk taking seems to have an effect, for me now when i come to pass something iv got to be 100% sure i can get past it safely b4 i go for it...15 years ago i wouldnt have cared if i thought i could get thru or not, if i was in a hurry i was going thru anyway.
as for mine being a fast un./..dunno how many times i have to explain this lol....mine was....when it was tuned..cams etc....in its std trim it was deemed a fast un cos at the time no others were really runnin in the mid 14s, quite a few in the high 14s, but only really me mehdi and adi in the mids-lows. like i say this was quite a few years ago now. but now its back to runnin about the times it was when std. which quite a few more williams' are doing too...so again.its quite an average time now.
take rochdale williams' willy 2 iv had countless dos against this one, with another guy who i rate as a good driver behind the wheel......and it was again very even....with him even pulling slightly in some areas....but that was with craggy behind the wheel.
Chris n`nic
09-05-2006, 22:56
tbh 2live I felt sure your car would do mid/low 14s after the comparisons on the way to york....but both our cars were'nt really on top form imo.... If you brakes were in perfect order and you nailed the start I still think it could get under 14.5 in this spec....
I agree m8....although I think everyone was suffering slightly..even Jordy and the other big boys were slightly off the normal pace
Chris
what chip u got 2live? :P
tis a chip wizards one mate...its not ideal as its not mapped for the spec of the engine as it is now lol....its mapped for wen i had cams in... but i need all the help i can get at the mo lol.
rochdale_williams
10-05-2006, 10:17
TBH seems like a lot of us northern lads can back up what we say with stats. with a little stripping, chip, air filter and decat i managed a 5.85 0-60 and a 14.6 1/4 mile. got proff if ever needed
Ok, ok, it's not a fast one any more!
I'm looking forward to seeing how an averagely driven average Williams goes at FCS against all those other Mk1s then though. Some how I don't think you'll be all that slow :wink:
who me??
i fukkin hope i wont be that slow.....itl have the bodies on by then ....hopefully lol
and 1 thing to remember with the handling thing as well mate......the coilovers help........A LOT ;)
stevie_b
12-05-2006, 23:13
I enjoy my Clio and have probably had it longer than most (bought in '97) and am now in the process of stripping it out (150kg gone so far) to get something lighter and faster. It is fantastic on so many levels but mine is not a faster car than the JDM WRX STI, even when stripped. I have road and competition experience of both, and the Clio is probably the most smiles per mile, but the Impreza is in a different league.
Is yours a tuned f7r though stevie?
Std vs Std (WITH THE SAME DRIVER ability) then an STI Impreza is the quicker car full stop.
Modded vs modded would still be the same.
Modded Willy vs std STI the yes may well be.....
I carnt stand STI as have always been an EVO person and can say from experience they are in a different league to the STI..
Most (not all) Subarus you see on trackdays are people you carnt drive to save their life..They are just "livin the dream"...
6s 7s on track and road also.........so they not in a diff league.....lol
scooby, mitsis, seem to be fairly similar, danny t has been pasenger round oulton in mine...ask him bout the silver evo 6 that was holdin me up lol.....and then theres the evo7 wen craggy was in....etc. so not that much better lol...and it was a white scoob that passed me, pulled a gap, caught the evo and passed him too......i only managed to catch the evo, then he pulled off as i was about to pass
6s 7s on track and road also.........so they not in a diff league.....lol
scooby, mitsis, seem to be fairly similar, danny t has been pasenger round oulton in mine...ask him bout the silver evo 6 that was holdin me up lol.....and then theres the evo7 wen craggy was in....etc. so not that much better lol...and it was a white scoob that passed me, pulled a gap, caught the evo and passed him too......i only managed to catch the evo, then he pulled off as i was about to pass
You missed the point same driver / same abilities then the STI and more so the EVO is in a different league. Pasted GT3's and alsorts on trackdays but doesnt mean my car is faster..
... and I doubt your a better driver either... I've been reliably informed your one of these twats that thinks he's the don, but can't drive for shit despite all your boasts of being Mansell when you get behind the wheel :lol: :lol: :lol:
oops, called you a twat, I take that back... twats are useful :lol:
stevie_b
15-05-2006, 20:10
tbh.u shudda started pulling away slightly at that speed, ...above 125-130.they only go backwards.
This bit is correct. My RA with an EJ25 (lower redline) only just gets to 120!
What caught/passed what on a track day isn't wholly relevant though. My Clio has passed loads of very competent machinery and when my wife went on a track day (her first one) in my STI everything passed that, but with the same driver I know which one is 'quicker' round the track, and by a decent margin. I still love the Clio though and hence am hanging onto it and giving it another lease of life!
yeah this is also true mate....the ones iv come across on track have been driven as hard as i drive mine tbh mate. taking similar lines and at similar speeds, which to me says similar driver ability. both willing to risk the same speeds, on same corners etc.
the ones iv come acxross on the mway...well as iv said b4.anyone can press a pedal and hold the car in a straight line (dependant on power of car for the pedantic fukkers out there ;)) and has been the same kinda story.
like i say.,......except the 1 at oulton....which was taking the last corner b4 the start/finish straight a lot better and faster than i was, pulling a few car lengths evry lap....this seemed to be about the only place he was actually pulling away from me tho, rest of lap seemed fairly even tbh.
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