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Thread: 16V love

  1. #41
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  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavo7 View Post
    my comments on your comments in a different color for easier reading (good discussion btw)
    I'll try & do the same but this might get complicated, at least I'm not trying this on a phone instead of a PC

    They also integrated reinforcement veins onto the block design to make it stronger, these can be seen on the outside walls. My point is: it's improved and thought of. It all comes down to sand and molten metal in the end because that's how the end result comes to life, but "Just added bit of sand" is a way of understating the thought they put into it.

    The veins are for reinforcement but that was because they weakened the block on the inside by making the wall thinner to make room for the crank. So to say it is an improvement is incorrect, it's actually a fix to a problem that they created and a fix they had to as cheaply & as quickly as possible, so a little bit of alteration to the casting moulds was the best compromise.
    You don't see the veins on the later F7R's found in the Megane as that was a properly developed engine which Renault were able to take their time with as they weren't in a rush to get it into production for homologation purposes.

    you cannot machine an F7P camshaft into an F7R item due to lobe design and separation angle, can you? Plus it also had to be designed having it's share of R&D as any other cam. Plus these are wilder than the Megane F7R ones.

    My point is that they will be made from blanks of the exact same size and the profiles are only a result of calculations to make optimal use of the cubic capacity, port size & size of valve which is in real terms are either just a little bit bigger than or exactly the same as the F7P. Then it's simply a case of machining the blank to that profile. They didn't have the time or budget to do proper R&D into the cams and the calculations will have been based on the pre-existing ones of the F7P.
    The Megane engine needs to be treated as a completely different engine to that of the Williams as it benefitted from proper development, the cams are much much milder than the Williams but it's a much more efficient engine, it's a totally different cylinder head as well.

    Larger valves - Just inlet valves 1mm bigger & again just a different number punched into whatever machined them ie: don't machine as much material off and machine a little bit more off to cut the valve seat in the head.
    Yes, but would be cheaper to use the F7P valves, just off the shelf, right?

    You've missed the point a bit, they used the F7P exhaust valves but based on the calculations they would have done, a 1mm bigger inlet valve was optimal and as they made them all themselves anyway from single pieces of metal, the difference in price is nothing. If anything the bigger valves will have saved them money in less wasted material from machining them
    Cost savings in making valves only happened when the F4 came along as they are made fom 2 seperate pieces that are then friction welded together - which has since been proven to be a weakness as can be seen by how many tuned or high revving F4 engines have dropped a valve & wiped the engine out

    New tubular exhaust manifold - A flimsy piece of crap that's only fit for the bin, a standard valver manifold is actually an upgrade Hillpower was doing that to F7R's back in the day with proven results
    The cast iron manifold is a stronger piece I agree, but very heavy. The tubular Williams manifold reduces weight and was designed to optimise the low end torque delivery nature of the F7R engine, does not surprise me if modyfied (probably higher-revving) engines will benefit from the cast iron manifold. Have anyone fitted an F7P manifold onto a standard williams? Were the results positive or negative?

    The results were undoubtedly positive & as said above it was Hillpower that was doing it, the F7P manifold is actually optimised for low down torque on the F7P anyway.

    Interior and exterior we all know the differences. Small styling differences for marketing purposes to make it look different from the Valver which is virtually identical. Different cloth pattern on what are normal Valver seats, blue carpet and a different coloured background for the dials. Don't quote me on this but I had my Williams paint thickness measure at 200microns, was told by a person who worked for the automotive industry many years ago as a paint speciliast that the normal would be 70 microns. 200 microns would only be seen on high end cars like ferraris. Now, might be the case that my Wiliams had a paint job but would be intesting to have other cars Paint thickness measured to understand if Renault gave it a high quality paint job or not. (if yes, only W1 maybe?)

    I highly doubt it tbh. The Williams were built on the same production line as the Valvers which was sepereate to the rest of the Mk1 Clios as the shells are different. The paint on the Williams is the same blue that Renault had been doing for years and is also on the Valvers.
    Can you imagine the french guy in the paint shop being told to do extra work on a particular shell that has just rolled in? He'd probably go on strike

  3. #43
    I can't resist resurrecting this thread. I was watching an old documentary series from 1994 on YouTube (in my opinion the best and funniest documentary ever made) and I came across something I had totally missed or never taken in when I first saw it:

    Just look at from 28:10, especially 29:58 and 31:30.

    It rather tickles me that this sport blue 16V ('one six vee') with gleaming turbine wheels is the plaything of a loaded son. After twenty three years as rusting rodded clapped out bangers for people running fast cars on the cheap, they're now the playthings of that rich young chap grown up.

  4. #44
    Founder northy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Williams Land Cars:
    Quote Originally Posted by Fdl76 View Post
    Took her for a spin yesterday on the dry, mean machine...
    nice to see your looking after it.

    How come its ended up on a K reg????

  5. #45
    No 16v up for sale and then two at once:

    Life is just too full of temptation - surely someone on here needs an early Christmas present!


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