Daily Telegraph Review of Trophy - A bit of realism at last

[Mark_Ritchspeed]

This bits my favourite.

"Equally significant with these dampers is their resistance to overheating, thanks to that remote reservoir. The only snag is that they are said to cost 10 times the price of a normal damper - it's just as well that they should never need to be replaced."

So, if the average retail price for a damper is around £60 then 1 of these will be £600!!!!!

£600 for 1 ****ing damper. You better hope it never goes wrong.

[KingStromba]

I have contacted Renault UK already and renault France told them that the dampers will sell for £350 each from Renault parts departments.

So add your VAT and your looking at £411 each, or £1644 to replace the entire suspension.

[Zollo]

Ouch

Mind you, with something like that, I'd imagine there would be quite a few companies that would refurbished stuff like that. Surely there are quite a few competition cars using similar components? Remote reservoir dampers are on just about every motorbike going and cost about £450 for a decent aftermarket replacement. Or you get it rebuilt for £150, just like new

[KingStromba]

Quote from Evo mag Trophy review (emphasis theirs):

'After driving the M6 the Trophy feels SLOW'

So according to them, in one sentence it can keep up with the M6, then they state that the car feels SLOW compared to the M6.

So which is it? Very poor journalism to be inconsistent within a review.

I notice Clarkson did it on the 182 review. He absolutetly hated the car, then suddenly it was like he was reading a Renault press release and he loved it.

[Zollo]

As you well know Stromba, outright power does not necessarily make a fast point to point car. A 500bhp Mustang would get whopped by 276bhp Evo down a twisty road. But that Evo would feel pretty slow after blasting along some motorways in the Mustang for the last day. That's what Jethro was illustrating.

Clarkson does that a lot of the time with cars. If he starts off negative, he'll end up liking the car. If he starts off positive, he'll end up saying it's not that great. That's what he does.

It's so easy :P

[KingStromba]

As you well know Stromba, outright power does not necessarily make a fast point to point car. A 500bhp Mustang would get whopped by 276bhp Evo down a twisty road. But that Evo would feel pretty slow after blasting along some motorways in the Mustang for the last day. That's what Jethro was illustrating.

Clarkson does that a lot of the time with cars. If he starts off negative, he'll end up liking the car. If he starts off positive, he'll end up saying it's not that great. That's what he does.

It's so easy :P

The whole point is though Zollo, that they wernt blasting along a motorway in the BMW M6. They were driving it on the Twisty Italian pass. Its either quicker than the Trophy or it isnt. I know i could drive one quicker down that mountain pass than a Trophy, i wonder why Evo couldnt

[Mark_Ritchspeed]

I cant imagine an M6 being in its element on a mountain pass. I would be surprised if an M6 (as good as it is) would be quicker than a decent hot hatch on a twisty mountain road.

I can honestly take the Clio on some of the mountain roads around here, where an Evo wouldnt come close as its too big.

[Zollo]

The whole point is though Zollo, that they wernt blasting along a motorway in the BMW M6. They were driving it on the Twisty Italian pass. Its either quicker than the Trophy or it isnt. I know i could drive one quicker down that mountain pass than a Trophy, i wonder why Evo couldnt

They were Stromba. They started off in Munich, where they picked the M6 up. They then drove all the way down to somewhere near Rome, where the launch of the Trophy was. Reading it, the impression is that the Trophy kicks off the Italian pass runs, after they've just driven all the way down in the M6. So that was what happened. And so the Trophy would feel slow as, in a straight line, it is.

I'm not saying the Trophy is faster point to point. Jethro doesn't say that either. He ends it saying, "...you can't write a 'Clio Destroys M6' headline". The point of a story like that is to illustrate that a very capable performance car with humble beginings can keep much faster, more expenive machinery honest on real world roads.

[KingStromba]

So explain this then?

Evo and all the other motoring mags claim that the reason the Trophy handles so well is that it has resevoir dampers.

One of the reasons you fit a resevoir damper is to allow a stiffer damping (due to thicker shaft) i beleive. Fair enough, but i can get stiffer dampers for my Williams and they dont cost £400 each, so i really dont see that as an advantage of these dampers particularly, as renault could simply have fitted a stiffer damper. Avo do a stiffer and adjustable damper for the Williams at about £100 each i think. All the manufacturers do.

The real advantage of the damper comes from the improved heat dissipation effects, such that over long runs, the damper maintains a more consistent heat dynamic, and therefore doesnt induce damper fade. I am guessing that the resevoir dampers are fitted to bikes for this reason mainly, but it is just a guess as i dont ride.

So if this is the advantage of the Trophy, then the advantage would be seen on long runs round a track (20+ laps), where the dampers are working very hard, not on short runs in a mountain pass, where damper temps wont get as comparitively high i would have thought. Hence the reason these dampers are fitted to race cars, that do long runs on tracks, and rally cars, that again do long runs and maximum speeds.

Its a fallacy, from what ive read that a resevoir damper can supply superior damping over more conventional dampers. After all they are just conventional dampers with a separate oil resevoir. What they do do, is supply superior efficiency of the damper, such that it is more consistent. So i really dont see that the Trophy could be reviewed as better than the 182 cup for example. Sure on a track race the Trophy would be more consistent, but over a road comparrison the difference would be INDESCRIBABLY SMALL.

Its a bit like fitting 6 pot brakes to a Clio 182 with race pads. Sure they reviewers may love the braking force when they are hammering round a track, but have completely lost sight of the fact that those brakes are overkill for the car and the average man, and not really applicable to road use. And they also forget that a 182 Trophy costs 5 grand more than a 182 cup, or did until they had to reduce the price because no one except the chumps on cliosport where buying them.


In my opinion Renault could have made a car as good as the Trophy, if they had usesd the lighter wheels of the Trophy, and a normal damper at the same settings as the Sach resevoir damper, along with all the other small revisions. I guarantee no one would have been abel to tell these cars apart.

But as we know, no one would have fallen for buying that car at 15k. Add the word resevoir damper, and suddenly the car becomes worth the extra cash though

[Zollo]

Fair enough. As I've said before, I reckon a normal 182 Cup would have been able to put up pretty much as good a fight.