Original Mk1 Clio Cup

[fabulicious]

I know feck all about these but I believe this one has a custom exhaust and the shocks are not original decarbon not that you would want them to be after 17 years!

But here's a couple of thought's, three actually

Do you ever get your money back on a race car?
Would it not be cheaper to build one yourself?
And are people buying them for nostalgia or what?

[stevie_b]

Would it not be cheaper to build one yourself?

Unless you have a load of parts to carry over from another track car or are happy to source it all second hand then a track car rarely costs as much to buy second hand as the sum of its parts - costs of the bits and time spent racks up quickly. That said valvers are pretty cheap these days and you wouldn't need to spend that much on one (cage, seat and harness and that's about it - the brakes, transmission and engine are all standard valver) to turn it into something similar. If you built one yourself it would never be an ex-Cup car though - there has got to be an additional value for the fact that you could look up the results from the day, maybe see some pictures of it or TV footage, etc. If I were to buy it I'd have to get all the stickers remade to turn it back into the look it had back then - I think that is what is shown in one of the pictures but those stickers have since been removed to replace with his own advertising, etc.

[Red Cloud]

I know feck all about these but I believe this one has a custom exhaust and the shocks are not original decarbon not that you would want them to be after 17 years!

But here's a couple of thought's, three actually

Do you ever get your money back on a race car?
Would it not be cheaper to build one yourself?
And are people buying them for nostalgia or what?

Unless you want the 'history' that goes with it, its just a stripped out valver with a non structural cage in it for safety. Ideally you want a cage to touch the front struts to add strength to the shell. They dont in cup race cars.

You could build something better for the same money with a shell, a welded in cage and a 2 litre engine. But it wouldnt have any history. Most of the performance these cars have simply come from the fact they can run slicks because they have a cage. Probably worth seconds a lap over a similar non-slick shod car.

So yes, really the only reason to buy a cup car is because it has a history with it.

You wont get your money back no, because i dont think they are worth the 3 grand its selling for. I mean if you were going to break it you would get maybe 350 quid for the enfgine and ecu and the wheels would sell. And possibly the cage, but its not a good cage.

After that, its just bog standard renault stuff that everyone chucks away.

My opinion is its worth a couple of grand if its got lots of spares with it.

Oh and it will almost certainly have crashed or rolled. They all have.

[Red Cloud]

Just to add, nothing wrong with it being crashed, most race cars have, you have to check its been repaired properly though.

[fabulicious]

That's perfect gents..thanks for the feedback.

[RB23]

As a sum of the parts there is nothing particularly special about the Cups, but they are a proper racing car and not a converted road car, they are reasonably quick on the circuit and its nice to own a little bit of history.
Yes they will have been damaged but they will also have been dry stored and never been out in the salt and muck of a British winter so corrosion is generally not a problem.

[northy]

if i sold mine i would want alot more than 3k for it!

I think for what your getting its a bargin.

To find a two owner racing car with the last owner 17years is unheard of. I hope to have mine that long! Its a shame he is selling at all - if he still has it when we next do a trackday i have already sent him a invite.

A quick clean up and some new stickers is all it needs. I just hope that someone doesnt buy it - fit a 2ltr and wilwoods. That would be a real shame!!!

[Jamie Summers]

Being new to the world of Clio Cups I can't comment a great deal on values, though I obviously know what I paid for mine !!!
For what it's worth, Mark Fish (who is currently fettling my car for next season) says that the value of the Mk1 Cups is actually starting to go up, as they become eligible for more and more race series. They seem to be a pretty good bang for buck option - cheap to buy and cheap to fix, whilst offering a decent handling package and not lacking a turn of speed.

Sorry Northy, I'm sticking Wilwoods on mine ! (In my defence we will be doing 45 minute races, so the extra braking capacity will be welcome, and hopefully what we lack on the straights we can make up on the brakes and through the twisties). We'll resist the 2 litre pot for now and will see how we get on with our blueprinted and carbed 1.8.

I'm not sure how difficult it would be to get a Cup road registered these days ........ My car was registered back in 1996/7 and shows as a Clio 16v on the V5 (though I have the necessary documentary evidence from Renault to show it is a genuine Cup Car). The car would need very little in terms of modification to make it legal - all the lights and switchgear etc are present, but the paperwork might be a different story. You may have to get an SVA ???

There is clearly no fundamental difference between a genuine factory car, and a built-up replica, and accordingly no reason why the factory car should command a premium .......... but it will !

History and provenance matter to some, not to others..... so long as it matters to someone, then factory race cars made by any manufacturer will continue to attract interest.

Jamie

[Red Cloud]

Amazing how everyone thinks their car / house / garden shed full of shit is always going up in value.

Lets look at the facts. Inflation is running at circa 5%. I wont add in wage deflation, but i dont see many people getting pay rises right now.

So if you bought a cup race car in 2005 for 3.5k this is how it would work out

2005 - 3500
2006 - 3675 (this is the price you would need to sell for to break even)
2007 - 3858.75
2008 - 4051.68
2009 - 4254.26
2010 - 4466.97
2011 - 4690.3
2012 - 4924.82

So you would need to sell you cup race car for 5 k now, if you wanted to get 'the same money' for it as you paid in 2005 if you bought it for 3500.

The fact is that these cars have effectively almost halved in value in 10 years if you take into account inflation and wage deflation.

If you price the cars in gold, they have devalued to the point of being almost worthless.

[Jamie Summers]

You make a reasonable point - no great surprise, but cars are generally depreciating assets .....

They do not tend to obey the normal rules of investment as they are emotional purchases (I'm excluding day to day stuff here .......)

If you buy a car of any type expecting to make money (unless you are a car dealer !!!) then that is a dangerous expectation. You may be lucky, but chances are if you add up all of the running costs, including financing and inflation - essentially the opportunity costs of ownership, you are still likely to lose money.

We buy fun cars because they are fun, and people will pay more money for cars that are more fun or have interesting history - if you sell for more than you purchased for, then you have had a bonus, but don't think it means you have made money !

Agreed, a £3k car today is a significantly cheaper car than a £3k car was in 2005.