FAO ANYONE WHO WANTS OR IS THINKING OF GETTING CAMS

[J o n]

Right, Ben's seen some of the cam threads and wanted to reply, but has decided not to, this is what he was going to post, but I dont think he dares cos he'll get shit for advertising. Some of you know he comes on here anyway though and this isn't the case, so bollocks to it, i'm posting it up, so Ben, sorry in advance if any shit comes your way, that wasn't my intention...

"The AWT cams do produce significant gains, as do Kent and pipers similar level of cam.

However, my confidence in my cams comes from my own astonishment at the difference the cams alone made on a std engine (exhaust mods permitted, dont make a massive difference).

I wasnt really expecting too much in terms of difference on Jesus's car simply because its on std pullies and timing marks. I did measure the timing and it is incredibly out from the overlap values they should be running when timed in, its basically running no overlap. The car idled smooth and closer to a std engine rather than a lumpy Kent/piper timed in cam which does burble, hunt and occasionally stall if you run it right on the edge of the timing.

First drive of the first car, running the first cam brought a smile to my face as it just drove so well. Clean crisp acceleration, loads of torque. The reason why i say its the fastest near stock williams i have driven is because its true. The bridge we use, on the very quiet new bypass outside work, to time and speed check and get a general feel on how well the car is performing. No williams has done that stretch as well as jesus's, infact no car, no 172/182.

So its just as fast as those running more mods, timed and mapped on other companies cams. The real benefit is that its better behaved.

As for me bullshitting. All i can say is try it, if you dont like them, send them back.

They have been working very well on cars, even on std timing and pullies. However i have measured a large varience between std timing figures so naturally some will be in a better position than on other cars, and thus can make different figures.

When jesus's car is finished, and timed in as per spec, it will adopt a peakier nature, of which some can be mapped out. SO he will be invited to try and decide how he prefers his timing. It will become lumpier. But again, its the choice of the owner as to how they want it.

The secret behind the cams isnt in the duration or lift, as it doesnt actually carry that much duration, its almost 7 degrees less wild than the Kent RN2002 with a much wider LSA and peak timing. However, it does hold a larger BCD which allows me to design it to be one of the most gentle cams on the market in terms of valve train assembly abuse. THe flanks and ramps have plenty of area to accelerate the valve gently, but over shorter time. This allows you to run more dwell at peak lift, with less duration. The lifters are also not at their max extension as they are on regrinds and kents blanks, so you have more room for clearance either side. Its just common sense in design rather than aiming for peak numbers.

But i'm not pushing any of you to buy it, if you dont want it, you dont have to have it. Its just another option in the massive catalogue available to owners.

Regards

Ben

p.s 2live, jon is actually running a 2.2 with 12:1CR "

[KingStromba]

Awwe how sweet, i can almost smell the freshly cut grass and the blossom in the trees around the GDI factory now. Even the shit dont skint down there apparently.

Ben, 20 BHP minimum from your 'special' cams. WOW. You must be so clever. I bet all the other manufacturers of cams wish theyd got you to make their cams, instead of the fools who only manages a meagre 10-15 bhp.

Deffo put me down for some buddy. In fact can i fit two and get 40 BHP? Also can i get some of that special petrol that you make that is better than anything else on the market (adds a 20 bhp minimum), and some of that oil that eliminates all engine wear (so your engine lasts forever). Also can you throw in some world peace, and if your not too busy i have some water i need turning into wine. I know, i know, but i have 5000 people coming round for dinner tomorrow and im right out of fish and bread sticks. And if you could also help me resurect my dead relatives, would be much appreciated.

:D

[J o n]

cams come in pairs anyway, so it's technically 10 each

it's not about peak power, it's the torque curve as well mate... dunno what you have against Ben and Andy and i'm not really interested in what they may have said about your car in jest, but I dont get the constant slating

next meet i'll let you drive my car and I want your HONEST opinion of how much better it drives and how much quicker it is than a standard Willy... no full throttle clutchless gear changes tho!

[KingStromba]

I have two sets of headlight protectors now. :D

[J o n]

well give a set to bitch, one of mine broke!!!

seriously though, you need to have a drive of me car next meet and i want an honest unbiased opinion... i may even get a new plate and come in disguise and use a dodgy italian accent ;) lol

[KingStromba]

Im not saysin bens cams dont do what they say on the tin. BUT. To think they are magically better than piper or kent is stupid.

[J o n]

where are you getting this from, 'magically' better? i can get the figures of lift and all the other techno babble which hardly anyone will understand and that will show the difference. it's not a case of bigger and better, they are simply different. Kent are 260 degree duration for a start, I dont think mine are

[KingStromba]

Taken from 'How stuff works':

The camshaft uses lobes (called cams) that push against the valves to open them as the camshaft rotates; springs on the valves return them to their closed position. This is a critical job, and can have a great impact on an engine's performance at different speeds.

The key parts of any camshaft are the lobes. As the camshaft spins, the lobes open and close the intake and exhaust valves in time with the motion of the piston. It turns out that there is a direct relationship between the shape of the cam lobes and the way the engine performs in different speed ranges.

To understand why this is the case, imagine that we are running an engine extremely slowly -- at just 10 or 20 revolutions per minute (RPM) -- so that it takes the piston a couple of seconds to complete a cycle. It would be impossible to actually run a normal engine this slowly, but let's imagine that we could. At this slow speed, we would want cam lobes shaped so that:

Just as the piston starts moving downward in the intake stroke (called top dead center, or TDC), the intake valve would open. The intake valve would close right as the piston bottoms out.

The exhaust valve would open right as the piston bottoms out (called bottom dead center, or BDC) at the end of the combustion stroke, and would close as the piston completes the exhaust stroke.

This setup would work really well for the engine as long as it ran at this very slow speed. But what happens if you increase the RPM?

When you increase the RPM, the 10 to 20 RPM configuration for the camshaft does not work well. If the engine is running at 4,000 RPM, the valves are opening and closing 2,000 times every minute, or 33 times every second. At these speeds, the piston is moving very quickly, so the air/fuel mixture rushing into the cylinder is moving very quickly as well.
When the intake valve opens and the piston starts its intake stroke, the air/fuel mixture in the intake runner starts to accelerate into the cylinder. By the time the piston reaches the bottom of its intake stroke, the air/fuel is moving at a pretty high speed. If we were to slam the intake valve shut, all of that air/fuel would come to a stop and not enter the cylinder. By leaving the intake valve open a little longer, the momentum of the fast-moving air/fuel continues to force air/fuel into the cylinder as the piston starts its compression stroke. So the faster the engine goes, the faster the air/fuel moves, and the longer we want the intake valve to stay open. We also want the valve to open wider at higher speeds -- this parameter, called valve lift, is governed by the cam lobe profile.

Any given camshaft will be perfect only at one engine speed. At every other engine speed, the engine won't perform to its full potential. A fixed camshaft is, therefore, always a compromise. This is why carmakers have developed schemes to vary the cam profile as the engine speed changes.

So yes, you can get more power out of a particular cam profile, but you will sacrifice the engine at other rev ranges. Ie put all the power at the top of the rev range (Bens claimed minimun 20-30 BHP) and you sacrifice the bottom end (ie the car wont idle properly).

Why Ben thinks he doesnt come up against the same problems as everyone else is beyond me, but i guess he tries to bullshit his way through it. Unless he has fitted some sliding cams with irregular lobe circumferances like fitted to Ferrari engines, i fail to see how he can claim a better engine when using wild cams to stack all the power at the top end.


IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN

[J o n]

it sounds like your telling me that all cams are the same from that... but some ARE better than other, Shrick racing cams I would imagine are better than a cheaper cam of similar or same duration, but mine are not the same duration as everyone else or the same spec... its faster i'm happy, so who cares

he says the cams make 20-30bhp, properly setup i've no reason to see why they wont, Martin and Jons car's both run around 180bhp, which if i'm not mistaken is 30 up on 150...

you have your views on it i have mine, no point continuing this thread as it's going round in circles

[KingStromba]

The wilder the cams the more power but less driveability you get. Hence car manufactueres dont stick wild cams in cars to increase power and no ****er would buy them when they stall at every set of lights.


Agreed?


Its the same for every cam maker, hence why companies like Honda and Ferrari spent millions developing variable cams, so they get the driveability at low RPM, but that wild cam kick at high RPM.

Now, your telling me that Ben has secretely found some secret that Ferrari and Honda engineers missed?


No, the fact is that the more power you get (from wilder cams), the crappier drive your car will be, and the harder it will be to drive. So im sure he can get 30 BHP from wild cams, but the engine will be a pig to drive.