View Full Version : saxo vts keepin up!
i had a race with a saxo vts last night and he kept up with me :(
im sure the williams should be alot quicker?
what can i do to get more speed?
Scott-16v!
24-02-2006, 15:34
when are you changing gear? i.e. at what revs? think you need to try harder :lol: :wink:
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 15:34
:lol: Probably wasnt standard mate. People say they make great gains with breathing mods but ive never come across one on the road that has beat my valver :wink:
it is standard its my mates! im changin gear at about 5 & 1/2 im gutted! what can i do!
Neil1587
24-02-2006, 15:39
I'm not suprised to be honest :P
I had no probs keeping with my mates willy 2 when he had it. Both had breathing mods.
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 15:43
it is standard its my mates! im changin gear at about 5 & 1/2 im gutted! what can i do!
Try changing at 6500rpm :roll: Learn to drive harder :wink:
FlamingMonkey
24-02-2006, 15:43
Changin at 5.5k get it changed at 6.5k :twisted:
well i dont no what i was changin at then cos i hit the limiter a few times! :?
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 15:50
lol, tbh mate you wont piss on a vts big time. It would be behind you up to 70-80 then you would start to pull away slowly imo.
this is prob gona sound stupid but what does imo mean?
Swervin_Mervin
24-02-2006, 15:54
lol, tbh mate you wont piss on a vts big time. It would be behind you up to 70-80 then you would start to pull away slowly imo.
Balls. I've pasted plenty in my ickle 1.8. :P
well y isnt my williams?
it is quicker its just he doesnt get left too far behind!
what is the first mod i can do to make it quiker?
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 16:05
I have beat a few vts's in my valver swervin :wink: But a standard williams wont leave a valver behind till 80 imo. Holl, you wont beat a vts like you would a 1.1 fiesta mate. Williams is faster but not so much that you will leave him for dead. Vts are quite quick imo
imo = in my opinion :wink:
fasterthanjesus
24-02-2006, 16:07
simple mods (in order).
1. optimax.
2. heavier shoes.
3. remove passengers/excess weight.
4. air filter.
5. decat. pm lunner.
6. chip. pm gunner.
sounds like the car is in big pain but u need the change at 6.5k revs and ur gear change has to be under a second.
but as said there fast but dont expect to piss all over them because there not slow neither
but just practise ur racing and u'll av it :D
Neil1587
24-02-2006, 16:16
lol, tbh mate you wont piss on a vts big time. It would be behind you up to 70-80 then you would start to pull away slowly imo.
Balls. I've pasted plenty in my ickle 1.8. :P
It's the other way round in my vts, i've never had a problem with the valvers i've been against, not pasted 'em mind!
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 16:19
Must be a gooden mate :wink: One i raced a while back, i was behind in 2nd on his bumper goin for it. He moved over to the left lane so we could play and by the end of 4th his bonnet was level with my door as my valver edged in front. It was like a snail goin past but it still did it :wink:
To be fair, there isnt much difference in a Williams and a VTS' 0-60 times.
Power to weight and all that. The williams is a better all round car with suspension etc, and after probably 60/70 it would pull away, but initial off the line racing I cant see there being any difference
i used optimax last nite n it hardly filled it up! ive got a uprated air filter but did have a passenger and the brakes didnt want to work after a while so when i got near the round about i got quite scared!as i wasnt stoppin! :?
Swervin_Mervin
24-02-2006, 16:31
I think perspective is in order. It takes a massively quicker car to "leave" someone behind.
Only car that I've seen absolutely scream away from me that's close on o-60 times is the Kirmanators Teggy. But then he seems to have a 2Live right leg modification that gets an extra 20bhp. :lol:
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 16:39
vts should never keep up with a williams i had one, before my williams massive difference. and iv left them many a time
the cars are the same spec almost imo. ppl on here chat shit about their williams, and always seem to think that they are faster than what they are.
hmm, well i've utterly battered each and every VTS i've been up against... only raced about 3 or 4, but still...
Holl, start with simple breathing mods. exhaust/decat and panel replacement filter... then get a remap (not an off the shelf chip, it needs mapping on an RR). then there's cams... at this stage you wont bother racing VTS', you'll be looking for STi's to blow away!
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 16:52
how are they the same spec a vts is 120 bhp 1.6 16v
ok thanks for your help! :D
the cars are the same spec almost imo. ppl on here chat s**t about their williams, and always seem to think that they are faster than what they are.
but then on the flip side you get people completely ignorant to how fast they can go. not saying you personally are, but you'd never believe that a Clio would keep up with an STi or Evo 7 would you? so really it works both ways.... either way i'm not arsed, I know personally what my car can do and what it should a will be able to do with a few more careful mods.
are we talking standard here or modded?
ive seen several vts's vs valvers and williams and in every case they have been v similar. a friend of mine used to race his valver against his brothers vts all the time, and they were almost identical in std form and when they both had mods. the valver was 160bhp and the vts was 150bhp and it was an excellent match.
either i have a slow williams or u all have unbelievable cars because i couldnt piss on a vts
im not talking engine size :roll: dan. more the performance of the cars.
mine is std btw, and it does 100 around the book time of 19secs
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 17:00
i no just threw the main facts out. im sorry but there is no way a vts should touch a williams.
what do u think should happen then a williams pull several car lengths to a 100 then?
id like to meet up with some of u boys and have a straight line race and see if my car is slow then, as i reckon i should be loads of car lenghts behind to 100 if u can hammer a vts dan.
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 17:08
any williams can hammer a vts. iv had one been hammered by a williams. and now its exactly the same the other way round
I love the Ego's in here :o
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 17:11
lol :lol: its not an ego honest it was just a simple reply to the orginal question. its a fact a vts should not push a williams
i suppose its the same on any forum they always big up their cars and say how they hammered another car.
just i dont mind saying my car aint all that, and i dont think its particuarly slow.
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 17:21
:lol: i dont think for one minuite my car is all that. but i know its faster than a vts as i had one. only trying to give an opinion.
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 17:24
:roll:
Some breathing mods and re-map would be what I would go for.
Dan_Williams
24-02-2006, 17:29
i no mate only joking with you. :D
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 17:38
****in hell, a williams id faster than a vts, thats a fact. But its not so fast that its gonna runaway off into the distance :roll: a vts would be right up there with it at 70 mph. Just look at the 1/4 miles times and you can see there is not alot in it. And i dont think many people on here can compare really as most of you guys run cams :wink:
well ive started a right debate! :roll:
Never had a doo with a VTS, but I reckon standard against standard they would be very similar, Williams should have the edge if driven to it's full potential due to slightly better p/w ratio.
Don't think it's fair to compare a tuned willy to a standard VTS. I'm sure with the same mods it would be very evenly matched again.
Dan & Jamie, your both right to a certain degree...
A 'GOOD' Williams will 9/10 times beat a VTS, unless it's a freak (like Craggy's old one), but then you get freak Williamseses too...
The majority of the Williams you see out on the road now are thrashed and tired imo and hence give a false impression of how quick the cars are in reality. generally a good full service (plugs, leads, rota arm etc...) will bring the car back upto how it should be performing, but imo most lightly modded ones are only making std power these days due to being tired and showing their age...
I don't agree with that, most willys I've seen out and about are in good condition, they are becoming rarer now and it's mostly the good ones which are left and have been looked after. I've only ever seen one rough williams and pretty sure it was a valver with willy wheels.
I reckon a good one with simple mods would beat a VTS, but not to the extent of some claims I've seen on here.
Andyvalver
24-02-2006, 18:14
.
I reckon a good one with simple mods would beat a VTS, but not to the extent of some claims I've seen on here.
Well, i think a standard willy on 90k with no service for the last 10k would still beat a vts! It just wont thrash the pants off it like i said :roll: If my 150k valver can see off the odd vts im sure a battered williams can. This doesnt mean my valver can beat every vts, just that one on that night.
Its a pointless argument really cuz the willy will win every time when in to the 100's
Personnally wouldnt worry about it, he's driving a mass produced buggy named after a LEMON and were driving a EXCLUSIVE variant of one of the Greatest hot hatches of all time, the Mk 1 is starting to get a bit long in the tooth so if u pair up the Saxo with its modern day Adversary, the 172 - 182, Clio comes out on top, but go back in time, and pair the Valver against An AX GTI - Same Again Renos are the better car, theyre from diffrent eras using different strains of technology, plus if one that horrible sour little things Smoked me, i'd just go home and take the Evo out 8)
lol at rott! stuff them with a evo! sod it
ive not had any problems with any VTS's ive come accross yet, never smoked them into the distance but never had one go past me, but i never went head to head with craggys vts lol 'what a shame ' lol
a std williams should always beat a std VTS but it wont trounce it as they weigh **** all! about 930kg as std lol makes ours look fat like a 182 cup option car lol
he wasnt gettin past me but he did stick with me! but i get a bit scared and let off! :?
oh and jamie, yours has a gold diamond badge thats why yours is slow lol
sort it out!
My mates had 3 VTS's and none of them have been faster then my williams. Mine was running panel filter, decat and magnex exhaust. All of this had full exhaust systems, bmc's and gmc manifolds. Fast cars but not fast enough.
His current VTS is certainly quicker than any of the others he's had. I pull 3/4 car lengths by 100 and then slowly pull away after that. I want a rematch now to see how much better car is :twisted:
***This was all before my manifold and remap***
This is what you should be seeing.... :wink:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v670/big_hp/PICT0250.jpg
maybe abit closer but yea thats it! but that to me isnt much quicker!!! :?
Thats not a pic of us racing. Just driving home from a day out.
As long as you can see it in your rear view mirror thats all that matters. When it comes up alongside then its time to worry.
get some benr head work, awt cams and pulleys and then go to chipwizards to get the car mapped to those mods along with exhaust, filter, de cat u will then eat vts for breakfast and be hunting down scoobies. :twisted:
must have a bad un' :shock:
A slow one
I've seen one againsta williams, williams was ahead by about 1 car length, on the same bit of road against same car a mk2 1.2 16v was 1 car length behind, but then Fred was driving, and hes a nutter, plus it was round round abouts and he has 4 pots and coilovers lol
was only jokin! who knows what mods the paxo had?
i had thisame argument hol a few weeks ago about 106 gti's
these are meant to be quicker than a vts by the way!
my mate has one and trust me their fast! it would beat a valver
you are goingto get alot of very biased view on here favouring a williams everytime but in simply reality standard to standard. williams just egdges it ahead of a valver, vts and gti
but on a track or backroads a williams should pull away comfortable enough.
case closed
i had thisame argument hol a few weeks ago about 106 gti's
these are meant to be quicker than a vts by the way!
my mate has one and trust me their fast! it would beat a valver
you are goingto get alot of very biased view on here favouring a williams everytime but in simply reality standard to standard. williams just egdges it ahead of a valver, vts and gti
but on a track or backroads a williams should pull away comfortable enough.
case closed
Been up against Stu in his 106 GTi round donnignton, past him on teh pit stright, and then almost stacked it on the first corner lol
the saxo was std it was my mates but he doesnt brake till he gets close to me! were as i do let off quite early as the brakes aint to good! :?
Thats why then, look how much i gained on martin, from braking alot later than him, first corner, could then carry more speed through the corner
http://www.lunner.co.uk/cadwellclips/martin.wmv
i dont hammer mine that much in a straight line, usually change about 5.5/6ish anyway as u dont gain that much, i just go round the corners quicker, imo there is no need to put the car under the added stress of that extra 1k (changing at 5.5 rather than 6.5) as the stress is alot more due to the exponential curve. there is a long striaght by me followed by a sweeping curve, if i hammer the living piss out of the car i get somewhere between 82-90 however if i change at 5.5/6 i can get 75 ish not a big difference so y bother?
only probs iv had with vts' is just 1 car, or driver lol......was a black un....simple breathing mods....neck and neck almost to bout 120,, then i started inching away.....most i have no probs with whatsoever tho.
Swervin_Mervin
25-02-2006, 00:24
i had thisame argument hol a few weeks ago about 106 gti's
these are meant to be quicker than a vts by the way!
my mate has one and trust me their fast! it would beat a valver
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahahahahahahahaha
Dude, that's the funniest thing I've heard this year. :wink:
106 GTIs aren't quicker than the VTS either. They're EXACTLY the same.
dont they have the same engine? :?
Swervin_Mervin
25-02-2006, 00:37
The 106 is a Saxo with a AX interior. :lol:
Even the rumoured differences in gearboxes are all horse turd.
POWARTEK
25-02-2006, 00:57
VTS is pretty dam nippy tbh, I had a late night encounter with a 106 Gti, and it was pretty dam neck and neck till around 100, then the willy had its day and took charge. Up from 2nd gear the gti held it good only slightly looing ground, so id say it is quite possible.
i had thisame argument hol a few weeks ago about 106 gti's
these are meant to be quicker than a vts by the way!
my mate has one and trust me their fast! it would beat a valver
you are goingto get alot of very biased view on here favouring a williams everytime but in simply reality standard to standard. williams just egdges it ahead of a valver, vts and gti
but on a track or backroads a williams should pull away comfortable enough.
case closed
Been up against Stu in his 106 GTi round donnignton, past him on teh pit stright, and then almost stacked it on the first corner lol
LOL Stu was abou the most nervous/slowest driver at donny so hardly a fair comparison! lol I passed a noble at oulton are they slower than a hybrid? :lol:
clowo16v
25-02-2006, 01:25
My old 106 rallye with GTi engine was about as fast as my Clio is now up to 80mph but that was seriously stripped.
You're never gonna pull away massive amounts but I have no problems dealing with them in my Clio, and as soon as corners are involved the Saxos disappear out of the rear view mirror very sharpish.
See ya
Matt
lol at the bs on here.
you lot talk like the williams is some sort of supercar. the vts driver wont exactly be giving it wow when you pull 2 car lengths in front. you need a big bhp car to beat someone in a straight line - on the track its a little different. ok the williams has the legs on a vts - not exactly an achievement .
thanks for ur help on this one guys & gals i just was abit confused as earlyer that day i said seya to a audi tt??? :?
just found out that my dizzy cap is f**ked is now sat on my bf drive looking sad! would i have lost much power cos of this?
it wont help for sure! if its been getting a weak spark or none at times lol go to gsf and buy a new one! also check the rotor arm is ok
its completly dead! :( it wont start! my bf i gona get me one on monday!
ta tho :D
10/10 for observation.......
8)
yes they are the same engine
but you'll find the 106gti is ACTUALLY lighter!!!
therefor making it slightly quicker in a straight..
unless your a fat bastard i guess :?
steveos_16valver
25-02-2006, 23:32
i had thisame argument hol a few weeks ago about 106 gti's
these are meant to be quicker than a vts by the way!
my mate has one and trust me their fast! it would beat a valver
you are goingto get alot of very biased view on here favouring a williams everytime but in simply reality standard to standard. williams just egdges it ahead of a valver, vts and gti
but on a track or backroads a williams should pull away comfortable enough.
case closed
WRONG saxo vts is quicker as its about 900g lighter !!
as if it makes a difference
i have heard a few times apparently 106gti rev slightly higher and are slightly lighter
who cares anyway anymore lol
Neil1587
26-02-2006, 00:11
Lads, the vts/gti are pretty much the same car. They have exactly the same chassis, engine. They are identical in performance. Book figures actually state the vts as the quicker car, but the 106 was tested 0-60 etc with a full tank & a passenger(hence ins. grp 13, vts 14). They both weigh 935kgs
only raced 1 106GTI and that was MEhdi's... but it's not really a fair race... to begin with his was completely standard and he also had a passenger, so I pulled straight away... be interesting to see what the M3 moves like!
i'm not happy at all, I could only pull 1 maybe 2 car lengths MAX from my mates VTS!! :(
The spec of his VTS is unknown but it can't be standard. Looking at it it has a heatwrapped 4-2-1 manifold, a pipercross closed induction kit and big front and rear brakes, and 16" lightweight oz wheels.
I was shocked that he was keeping up! shouldn't a 2.0 16v comfortably beat 1 1.6 16v?
I was shifting at 7krpm aswell.
Coops etc can vouch this is not a slow car either (beats valvers quite easily), but now I want it to be a lot faster :evil:
My spec:
2.0bottom/1.8head
itg panel and fog feed
decat
full stainless magnex
1.8ecu superchipped
So yeah it was damn quick and I wasn't expecting that at all. I do have quite heavy 17"'s but the profile is 215 so I get all the power down well!
:evil:
vts_saxo
26-04-2007, 00:30
The vts I had before the williams used to keep very well, williams would crawl past so slowly(had them both out comparing before I sold the vts). As said in the valver vs 106 gti thread, AE on the site's 106 could keep up fine with my williams.
These debates always turn out crap as everyone thinks their williams/valver is the fastest hot hatch on the road, when in reality......
well I don't think that...
I knew it was quite quick but when it doesn't really go past 1.6's it makes you worry a bit!
Wouldn't worry about it simply because it's a 1.6. Engine size is only one part of what makes a car fast :)
seanofnp
26-04-2007, 10:15
i'm not happy at all, I could only pull 1 maybe 2 car lengths MAX from my mates VTS!! :(
The spec of his VTS is unknown but it can't be standard. Looking at it it has a heatwrapped 4-2-1 manifold, a pipercross closed induction kit and big front and rear brakes, and 16" lightweight oz wheels.
I was shocked that he was keeping up! shouldn't a 2.0 16v comfortably beat 1 1.6 16v?
I was shifting at 7krpm aswell.
Coops etc can vouch this is not a slow car either (beats valvers quite easily), but now I want it to be a lot faster :evil:
My spec:
2.0bottom/1.8head
itg panel and fog feed
decat
full stainless magnex
1.8ecu superchipped
So yeah it was damn quick and I wasn't expecting that at all. I do have quite heavy 17"'s but the profile is 215 so I get all the power down well!
:evil:
I think jays was probably thinking the same thing when my 1100kgs worth of del sol was only very slightly being pulled on by his hybrid ;)
Never doubt the 1.6 powah. ;)
Tbh engine size doesnt matter.
1.6 engine with 140 bhp in the same weight car as a 1.8 with 140bhp is still 140bhp. Regardless of engine displacement Power is Power. Hense why these ickle cars keep up.
AmDaMan i would say that until you get the ecu remapped your not getting the most out of the 2.0 bottom end combination as your still running the 1.8 ecu. think that would make a sizeable difference.
you think? I've been told that I should still be making standard power with the 1.8ECU.
Plus I have my rear end stripped out! It really is quite gutting though.
you think? I've been told that I should still be making standard power with the 1.8ECU.
Plus I have my rear end stripped out! It really is quite gutting though.
If its a 2.0l map its fine, if not get a 2.0l map
cliolord
26-04-2007, 14:10
i got beaten down pod by a VTS saxo :evil: i talked to him and he had no bonnet on, was running catcams, heat wrapped exhaust and i think he mentioned head work? next time will be another story :P
well i know i'm running a 1.8 chipped ECU for a fact.
I don't really want to go splashing out for any massive mods just yet so instead of a remap i'm going to get a chip for mine mapped to my spec and see what happens. Mine really feels a bit gutless up the top end hopefully that's because of the ECU.
Punkymuffin
26-04-2007, 22:16
just found out that my dizzy cap is f**ked is now sat on my bf drive looking sad! would i have lost much power cos of this?
Dat wud defo make difference lol :( .
urs aint slow am mate, and VTS's can be quick! :P
if he's wrapping the manifold etc etc theres probably a few bits u dont know about
std VTS is 120 bhp, few mods and he'll be pushin 140 odd easily enough and if ur lookin at wrapped manifold they are likely to be choice mods aswell.
ur car has std engine really, not running the right map and big wheels, not to mention 3 ton of bodykit! :wink: so ur lookin 145 probably, maybe less,maybe but more and more weight i'd guess
so to beat him i'd call it a fair enough result!
Punkymuffin
28-04-2007, 21:48
I had tear up with a stripped out vts in my 405 mi16 an i dint think it was that quick sure a willy shud do 1
My mi16 is standard apart from stage one headwork.
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