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VIPERONE
07-02-2006, 19:34
Dear Sir (Gunner Gibson),

With reference to your recent e-mail concerning Kent Cams adjustable pullies.

‘Kent Cams’ value customer satisfaction and have a legal obligation with regard to the quality of our products, there can be many reasons for component failures within an engine and it would be inaccurate to assume that any given failure can be pinpointed via a few photos posted on a forum.

If yourself or any of your colleagues / friends have any problems with products purchased from Kent Performance Cams Ltd, we would request the return of the components and any ancillary components to allow for investigation into the failure.

With regard to the particular case of “2LIVE *name edited* I have twice requested he contact our office with his details to facilitate a collection of his supposedly faulty parts, unfortunately Mr Barrett prefers not to give us his address and the consequently the opportunity of investigating his failure.

I would suggest that you perhaps contact Mr Richard Northrop about our “poor service” rather than believe forum tittle tattle.

If you have any further questions regarding Kent Performance Cams Ltd please do not hesitate in contacting me.

A. D. J. Burns.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok for those who have sustained failiures can you please email me with your address.. i am going to send out official statement forms and a proforma guide which you can follow.
I have the consulted various legal professionals at work and over at the courts. I have all the legislation in place and can confirm that anyone that have sustained a failiure due to the pullies will stand a great chance in court.

I will naturally assist all concerned.

Andyvalver
07-02-2006, 20:29
:P Good work gunner, they seem a bit cocky so bring em down :evil:

:P

J o n
07-02-2006, 20:55
onto a loser here imo, can tell immediately by the guys email that he wont ever admit responsibility, his condescending tone towards forum users expertise makes me think this anyway.

"it would be inaccurate to assume that any given failure can be pinpointed via a few photos posted on a forum."

he has a point in a way... or he would if it was just one person, however they are ****ing up left right and center and now people that have them are not fitting them!

I'm sure 2 live will tell you himself, but iirc Kent wouldn't pay for the bits to be picked up leaving the onus on the end user, which is frankly shit for a company that says it prides itself on reputation. and it's not just their pulleys that fail as we well know... hany many instances of failure is this now? I can think of 4 off the top of my head within the last year alone!!!

matty
07-02-2006, 21:17
If they value customer satisfaction seems funny how I didn't even get a reply from them.......

VIPERONE
07-02-2006, 21:22
LOL Jesus....there is no loser here. I have spoke with people who take companies like this to court everyday.

I have NEVER lost a case...lol however im no civil law expert. My uncle is a corporate barrister and my aunt is a judge my grandad was a solicitor..

Anyway the legislation i have here is concrets, this is only a short piece ..

• Wherever goods are bought they must "conform to contract". This means they must be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality (i.e. not inherently faulty at the time of sale).

• Goods are of satisfactory quality if they reach the standard that a reasonable person would regard as satisfactory, taking into account the price and any description.

• Aspects of quality include fitness for purpose, freedom from minor defects, appearance and finish, durability and safety.

• It is the seller, not the manufacturer, who is responsible if goods do not conform to contract.

• If goods do not conform to contract at the time of sale, purchasers can request their money back "within a reasonable time". (This is not defined and will depend on circumstances)

• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).

• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.

• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit

• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years).

• If a consumer chooses to request a repair or replacement, then for the first six months after purchase it will be for the retailer to prove the goods did conform to contract (e.g. were not inherently faulty)

• After six months and until the end of the six years, it is for the consumer to prove the lack of conformity.


My partner successfully took a market trader to court and won. She also took a professional hairdresser to court and won.. all because of the sales of goods act.

The installers of the cams will provide a statement detailing their qualifications and experience in mechanics race engineering. they will provide details on how the cams were installed outlining the procedures put in place by Kent to fit them. The fitter will be able to write why in his opinion the cam/pully/lobes failed.

An independant tester would/could be called upon to view the cam pully and test its integrity.(independant garage uni technicians etc.

A metal expert can be called upon to verify the quality of the pulley metal.


5 similar failiures :-this a course of failiures which offer a pattern of evidence to suggest that the products in question are indeed faulty/inept.

The DTI and trading standards can be informed of the defect and support of Kent Cams.
AutoExpress have displayed in interest in the matter from an email i sent them.
Why should several members of the forum have to sit back and see their money go due to poor and inept quality products from a company that claims to offer customer satisfaction. Its a standing Joke.. and even though i have nothing to do with it.. Kents approach to the scenario has annoyed me.

steveos_16valver
07-02-2006, 22:34
Get in there gunner


I have NEVER lost a case...lol however im no civil law expert. My uncle is a corporate barrister and my aunt is a judge my grandad was a solicitor..

bit of back up then !!!!!!!

Coops
07-02-2006, 23:01
its gotta be done, get all the boys with failures on board and get kent beggin for mercy. what they a re trying to pull aint right, once can be seen as a freak accident, but 5 times is gettin silly. :evil:

2 live
08-02-2006, 09:36
iv asked that bloke wen hes picking my cams up about 3 times now.....think iv still got the emails somewhere actually..



he said i would have to pay postage for the head and cams to be sent there, which quite frankly, im not prepared to do, theyv already cost me enough money after buying em, then having to replace the top end of the engine after they fukt up....so i left my address with them, and phone no,., and told him to contact me with a time and date they were going to pick them up.





im still waiting.......this was a few months ago now.

Mattie
08-02-2006, 10:24
gd work gunner!

gd 2 see your helpin every1 out and hopefully every1 whos had there shit products **** up on them will get sum compo and there money back!

McPikie
08-02-2006, 10:44
Sale of Goods Act 1979, Section 14.

:lol:

VIPERONE
08-02-2006, 15:09
Just to let you know that I have emailed my intentions and asked them to consider a local resolution with each party concerned.

for those wishing for a copy of the email for personal reference please ocntact me via PM.

J o n
08-02-2006, 16:19
like it Gibbo, should tell them your a lawyer acting on behalf of everyone and that you were on OJ's bench. that will shit the ****ers up

VIPERONE
08-02-2006, 17:23
LoL

stew
08-02-2006, 17:48
LOL

Good luck with this guys...seems like squeezing wine outa stone to me!

Its ridiculous that a seemingly "good", "experienced", "motorsport" company can get away with treating its customers like that. They are none of the above - simply an amature outfit by the looks of things, who have taken completely the wrong line in customer relations. They are employing bullying tactics hoping that no-body will take it any further. Its definatly worth the hassle...take em to court and get what you deserve.

Fair play one failure amounst a group of say ~60members is acceptable...could be down to a number of different things ****ing up.....BUT 5 or more is totally unacceptable. Its dangerous, and irresponsible as fook! Not to mention costly for anyone who deals with them!

Whats the odds now then?

5 failures outa 8 applications!

:shock:

J o n
08-02-2006, 18:18
all within 2 year time period tops. I know of 4 in the past year alone... Kent are ****ing jokers and to think I was going to put their cams in my car... no thanks, only the best for my baby! :twisted:

2 live
08-02-2006, 20:17
schrick not available wen u bought yours then?



lol

J o n
09-02-2006, 09:00
Shrick are good, but the lift values etc are better on Ben's, performance is the key!

2 live
09-02-2006, 09:20
id go for reliability over performance..... :wink:

J o n
09-02-2006, 09:32
my thoughts exactly, but why compromise, I want both... hence why i didn't get Kents :wink: :lol:

2 live
09-02-2006, 09:36
but how can u compare on reliability issues??



u havent even had ur pullies fitted yet.......lol.....they not gunna break if they dont get fitted/used.....thats why gaz n northy never have any probs with the williams' ;)

J o n
09-02-2006, 09:43
well me cams okay and me heads not been killed by em hehe. std pulleys are pretty heavy duty iirc, i'm sure new ones will be better tho... especially timed in, should be able to suck 172's through the airbox and fire them out the exhaust :lol:

2 live
09-02-2006, 10:14
pah.....i can do that on std cams and std pullies.... :wink:

J o n
09-02-2006, 10:21
yeah, but so could I. with the wiesel gearbox Donny and me used to have so quality doo's down the 60, with a mere 127bhp ATW to his 154bhp ATW 8)

i bet most Willy's could on std cams and pulleys esp with a Wayne remap, still cant get over how good they are and the difference they make!

2 live
09-02-2006, 10:28
and i cant believe u still thinking of takin it to an inferior tuner to get it mapped...........muppet



told u mate....i wouldnt trust em to put the correct amount of air in the their self inflating blow up pig.

J o n
09-02-2006, 10:34
tbh i'd prefer to take it there, but to be perfectly honest I'm not a fan of SMT6, don't want additional engine management bits all over the place, the stealth chip appeals to me more.

2 live
09-02-2006, 10:46
why??


u know the man for the job..........yet u choose to dismiss him ??

from the cams timed in by ben, he likes to put too much overlap into em.......which has been echoed by various r/r tuners on various cars.


and the smt 6 is a joke in my opinion..no raised limiter, piggy back design...more things on show....more things to fuk up wen they get wet......and inferior compared to the mapping capabilities of wayne.

bens even said it himself on cs..hes no ecu mapping guru.....whereas wayne is, well proven, well recommended..and his waiting list is less than 12 months.


tbh mate, id be claiming money back off ben for the mount, and pullies, fitting timing and mapping, seeing as tho uv paid 12 months ago, id be askin for interest on the refund too....and get a reliable tuner to do it instead

J o n
09-02-2006, 11:44
thing is it's deffo been done for a reason and you cannot deny the performance of the nana, apart from yours in previous spec nothing comes close to it, even when it was running SMT6 on std limiter, which like you say, may not be the best chip in the world, but for what it is i was well impressed. 14.1 @98mph on 6500rpm is really good imo. i'm not dismissing Wayne at all, Ben's even told me to take it to him to get it mapped to the std chip, as he knows i'm not rate keen on SMT6's and for costs they are not as flexible.

nah, don't want money back, it runs sweet with the cams in and it's something to look forward to... you'll be well impressed when your choking on blue smoke mofo :lol:

2 live
09-02-2006, 11:58
blue smoke??? :shock: :shock:


i wunt take it anywhere that garanteed that lol


to be fair.....the nana weighs fuk all, and shud really be quicker than it is for the spec/weight of it....or as it was..... was running same kinda times as me yeah, but i was giving a lot of weight advantage to it, and on the longer runs, mine wud pull on it higher up the rev range and in the higher gears.


ur point is??




even the real tuning gurus.....imo...have said that ben times too much overlap into the cams........this has come from the recommended experts too......so maybe they right lol...... personally id prefer my car to go like its cammed, rather than just sound like it...and be real lumpy in evryday traffic

J o n
09-02-2006, 12:20
yeah, blue smoke rules, diesel power man. lol

I know it weighs fook all, but so do most of the cars putting in the quick times, that's MK1 and MK2... yours is the exception to the rule and has always been by far and away the quickest of Clio's on std inlet...

we'll have to see, it's getting RR'd before and after anyway and Ben's going to try a few settings to see how I want it to drive and perform... afterall, no point having it stupid quick but be un drivable lol... want lumpy slagtasticness and performance to boot... and normal driving from it... so not asking for much :lol:

we'll have to see anyway, but i'm confident it will be at least as fast as all the other but with more interior. no reason not to really, as the engine has 28k only on it, it's not even 7 years old yet, then there's breathing, chip and cams. with a good driver it has to run a 14.0 at least in good conditions, there's no reason for it not to (apart from the driver, so i'll let 2 live, Martin and Monkey take it to Pod for me lol). Even then that's not important, it's on the road and round track that matters to me and you already know that on the road it does need more revs, but is relentless to the limiter in 5th on std map (as seen on FCS day... it was very fast that day)

MatBrown
09-02-2006, 16:24
thing is it's deffo been done for a reason and you cannot deny the performance of the nana, apart from yours in previous spec nothing comes close to it, even when it was running SMT6 on std limiter, which like you say, may not be the best chip in the world, but for what it is i was well impressed. 14.1 @98mph on 6500rpm is really good imo.


What about my old red 16v, Adi was knocking 14.2's out in that with a 16v box and head using an off the shelf chip.



Mat.

J o n
09-02-2006, 16:59
don't get me wrong, some will be almost spot on for that car, but 9/10 times the custom map is going to be much better.

Martin
09-02-2006, 22:56
thing is it's deffo been done for a reason and you cannot deny the performance of the nana, apart from yours in previous spec nothing comes close to it, even when it was running SMT6 on std limiter, which like you say, may not be the best chip in the world, but for what it is i was well impressed. 14.1 @98mph on 6500rpm is really good imo.


What about my old red 16v, Adi was knocking 14.2's out in that with a 16v box and head using an off the shelf chip.



Mat.

What about mine too :P lol It's gone into 3 figures for terminal speed which is a first for n/a, stnd t/b...I think. Not bad for stnd cams and no mapping... :wink:

J o n
09-02-2006, 23:30
Martin, there's nothing in the car though to be fair, be interesting to see what it would run with a full or half interior.

think if i do eventually run mine i'll prolly not bother taking the back seats out, i'd now prefer to know how quick it will be in the day to day state i drive it in. back seats out is fun for the noise, but i dont think the weight saving from back seats and bench will really benefit me much, weight was less of an issue in with 2 live's chip.

Matt, i'm gonna try that one from Wayne's in my car to see if it makes any difference tomorrow... well, as long as me brakes work... a wise man once said: "you don't want to go faster when your brakes are ****ed" hehe

BenR
10-02-2006, 02:56
jon, seriously, get off your high horse for a second and stop twisting things.

Only ONE person has commented on the cam timing on ONE car, and i've spoken to nick about it. Nick prefers to run ever so slightly less timing on the exhuast, he said the inlet is what he runs it on. Its not a big deal, i offer free retiming of the cams to whatever the owner wants the car to feel like, and many have taken it up. Most people come back and tell me they want it to be peaky and less bland, so i do it. Just because you like it the way you like it, doesnt effect others decisions. I run as much timing that is needed, and wanted. I warn everybody what a pain a lumpy car can be on the std idle control system, but they have the option to try it and come back.

As for mapping, i have been pushing everbody with a MK1 towards wayne, simply because its cheap and the results are good. I CANNOT remap the std ecu, i dont have the equipment or experience in cracking hex coding and assorted software technicalities, i'm not an electrical engineer. Mapping is not a problem for me, but that is the reason i only map standalones.....and its also the reason wayne specialises in mapping.

As for Jon, he will be getting everything i owe him and more. Its like you say, reliability is the utmost priority, so i'm not putting anything on that i am personally second guessing in his application.

Whats up with you anyway, sometimes your the nicest bloke in the world, then sometimes you are always crawling up my ass lol.

2 live
10-02-2006, 16:06
lmao....im not on any high horse...nor am i twisting things.....


i have known at least 2 ppl , 2 seperate r/r technicians that have commented on the set up o the car, both saying same thing, without even having to put it on the rolers.


u say u dont put untested unknown quality products on cars....so how do u do ur r&r?? on a laptop?? in a book??

if u dont fit unklnown quality items..how come jons car has ur cams in??


btw.....he wud like to know wot the 'and more' bit refers too...he hopes its nopt anopther dry bumming

FlamingMonkey
10-02-2006, 16:16
Dry bumming, lmao :lol:

Rich
10-02-2006, 16:17
and has his power of speech being taken away or are you his representative :wink:

2 live
10-02-2006, 16:21
hes sat at the side of me...tryin to get to the keyboard........but the roofies are jus kickin in so he cant haHA

Andy
10-02-2006, 17:13
jesus

no way will in run 14.0 dead in the state it is now mate you aint that much quicker than me ....


after remap ect timing and rear seats might see low 14.0

no way is at quick as 2 lives was :wink:

well thats what i think ha ha :D

J o n
11-02-2006, 13:57
Andy, only do I had against your car I left you for dead, that was with an extra passenger and a ****ed exhaust... try it now, I guarantee 6 car lenths from rolling 2nd gear to limiter in 5th. I'll put my money where my mouth is too.

I never said it would run a 14.0 now either :roll: once it's properly mapped there's no reason why it wont, with a good driver anyway. It's as quick as the 9 lives on std limiter, which means it must be as fast as Chris' Cup... do the math boyo :wink:

MAXIBOY
12-02-2006, 18:17
how many people are running kent pulleys at the moment and how many are changing them on here

J o n
12-02-2006, 20:06
you mean how many are left that haven't blown up? only a handful... lol

FlamingMonkey
12-02-2006, 20:18
I have them but I aint changing them

If it blows, it blows

GazTwo
12-02-2006, 22:25
As above... :roll:

MAXIBOY
12-02-2006, 22:34
going to change mine not risking the head and cams

J o n
13-02-2006, 09:52
personally i'd not bother changing them either, like Rob and Gaz said, if it happens it happens, another bit of evidence that Kent's prodcts are sub standard and not fit to be sold.