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bigjim
19-12-2005, 21:02
does anyone know what the profiles are on a standard williams cam? iirc awt cams are 263 profile and pipers are 268 which i think means the pipers have to be revved more to get the best out of them and peak power is higher up the rev range whilst the awt are more mid range. just wondered how they compare to standard. ive decided im definately getting a set of awt cams and verniers this year and getting the cambelt changed at the same time so hopefully i will see some good gains on properly timed in cams over standard but i will have the car r/r before and after at the same garage who will be fitting them for me so that everyone can see exactly what gains are made.

2 live
19-12-2005, 21:06
u thought about schrick, crane or cat cams mate??


weigh up all the options before u make ur mind up

bigjim
19-12-2005, 21:28
didnt realise there was such a large choice. thought is was only piper/kent and awt. so where can i get more info on the others? ive heard of shrick thought they were vw specialists.

VIPERONE
19-12-2005, 21:29
cat cams are very good.. you can be sure there verniers wont fail.lol there thick !

Fred
19-12-2005, 21:30
avoid Kent though from what others have hadd happen

bigjim
19-12-2005, 21:34
any links to cat cams? anyone know anyone whos got them in a willy?

u33db
19-12-2005, 22:10
www.catcams.be is the link you're after...IIRC stan* runs these in his TB'd engine...i've also bought one recently and the quality is as good as piper etc...maybe more so.

Fitting...you're in Scotland so try give Chris H as go off here...

bigjim
19-12-2005, 22:41
think im going to go with benr and awt cams. ive spoken to him and judging by other peoples posts on here and cliosport he is very highly rated.

stew
19-12-2005, 22:49
Chris_H is equally highly rated by people in scotland. His headwork is v v good! I saw a 1.8 16v head he did recently for doc off Retro Reno and was impressed! Takes a pride in his work and is v reasonably priced. If you can be rased going down to Ben R @ AWT then fair play, but a 40min trip to glasgow is much much easier!

Chris_H is who i am going to for my engine work next year! 8)

bigjim
19-12-2005, 23:04
im not going to go down there mate ill just get him to post them to me :wink:

stan
19-12-2005, 23:05
http://www.qep.uk.com/

these are the only uk suppliers of Catcams products

2 live
20-12-2005, 09:34
tbh mate...id stick with the well known and tried and tested varieties.

and def ones that have some kind of warranty that will give cover for bad manufacture.


i believe ben gets his from cat cams ........maybe wrong......



1 thing tho....stay as far away from kent cams as u possibly can.......speaking from experience their cams are ok while they last, the customer service is shite

northy
20-12-2005, 09:39
But on that note - ive seen a williams on kents cams which has run them without problems for 7 years....

J o n
20-12-2005, 09:52
But on that note - ive seen a williams on kents cams which has run them without problems for 7 years....

were the owners like Andy though and scared of putting miles on their cars... or just petrol in it?

northy
20-12-2005, 09:54
no - its tommo's car.

Hill Climbed from new - and then tommo bought it.

Chris H
20-12-2005, 09:57
cheers for the plug stew!

Bens cams are good as is his headwork etc.

if you don't have any one to fit them jim then I can do that, liek Stew says pop over to glasgowe and you can either hang about/get in the way or bugger off to braehead for a few hours.

2 live
20-12-2005, 09:57
maybe its their new manufacturing technique that saves pennies..2 cars run em...2 cars have fukt up recently...




BE WARNED

richy
20-12-2005, 19:26
thing is like any product in this world (doesnt matter what engines/household etc) there is always the chance some will fail due to whatever, bad manufacturing, or material supplied from somewere else, etc doesnt mean a certain product will always fail or be crap etc

matty
20-12-2005, 21:23
And a good product incorrectly fitted is never good. Just like a remap is only as good as the skills of the person doing it.

Not saying these weren't fitted properly (the one's that snapped) but experience is everything and I would leave major jobs like this to those who know what they are doing.

2 live
21-12-2005, 10:17
well..from the little digging that was done when mine failed, most other tuners, hill power, gdi etc have also admitted to having probs with kents stuff.

so i dont think bad fitting can be the cause, unless no1 can fit em properly.

the cams are pretty basic to fit, u cant go wrong really.


thing is with products like these is that most product names have a good history, a lot of ppl like to buy on history/proven records etc, from vacs to cars. so a reputable history can actually sell more products than modern reliability



my cams lasted 15,000 miles...iv fitted other cams that have lasted a lot longer and in fact are still going.....so i dont think its my fitting technique thats wrong. after the engineers report i had done it was fairly conducive that it was the metal fatigue/poor quality metal used in the cams that was at fault.

Chris H
21-12-2005, 10:25
its garbage metal, sort of things you throw away like milk bottle tops!

Thats why Ben made his own, better grade material and better lockign set up.

heres a sobering page

http://www.utahracing.com/Tech/hksgears/HTML/index.htm

Willy 2
21-12-2005, 11:55
Thats what you get for buying what looks like aluminium verniers! Bad luck i guess really more than anything..

stan
21-12-2005, 13:05
Has there been any reported problem with actual cam failure, or 'just' the pulleys?

2 live
21-12-2005, 13:08
mine was the cams...the pullies were fine..well until the cam dug in the head , then stopped, pulley carrying on, tightening bolt, shearing bolt, and mashing up the locater pin etc at the same time, now the pullies fukt lol.

2 live
21-12-2005, 13:11
was exact same prob as happened to martins too

matty
21-12-2005, 13:18
Regrind or billet cams?

2 live
21-12-2005, 13:21
billet mate......wouldnt touch regrinds lol

stan
21-12-2005, 13:58
yeah i remember now!!

matty
21-12-2005, 14:26
Will have to see how my Billets go......

What was the feedback from Kent in the end as remember original post but not what they had said about the issue.

Did they go all Catherine Tate...

BenR
21-12-2005, 15:25
Anybody remember the problems with kent cams in pintos?

stan
21-12-2005, 15:37
oil starvation to one end? dunno...go on...

BenR
21-12-2005, 15:48
nah, they had those crappy spray bars.

But the nose of the cam at high rpm would start to wobble and snap off, you could see it if you watched the pulley............still, 3 bearings is a stupid idea anyway.

stan
21-12-2005, 15:50
and that occured with JUST Kents? obviously the 3 bearing idea isnt the best...but...

BenR
21-12-2005, 15:53
From mine and others experience, but i dont tend to play or evne touch pintos at all much, only a couple times.....more from watching and what others said.

Not heard the same for pipers, but i was always wondering if kent/piper used the same blanks as i cant see them making their own blanks.

Chris H
21-12-2005, 16:57
i remember the pinto issue. Also remember a load of them wiping the lobes clean off!

The spray bar you got with the kit also tended to crack.

3 bearings are not to bad, the energys riun them but the design is far better.

the pinto set up is awful I have see ther 3 cam bearing towers develop cracks on them from wild cams that didn;t break apart.

BenR
21-12-2005, 17:56
yea, beyond crap.

The bearings you can get hardly ever match up, so if your head is out of spec, then it can be scrap or a pain in the arse to rescue, so you loose oil pressure.

The spray bars are a total waste of time, and clog like nothing else, unless they crack first, so you loose oil pressure.

The finger followers arent exactly a clever design.

The 3 bearing issue becomes an issue, unlike the energy, because they all have to run stupidly high seat pressures because nobody has bothered to work out the harmonics, not that its even worth the time on the old boat anchor.

And as you can see, i dont like pintos.