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Swervin_Mervin
09-11-2005, 16:35
Clio 16v or 19 16v?

Pros of clio:

I know how it handles and it's lighter (it is lighter right?)

Should be more nimble?

Pros of 19:

Shit cheap :P

J o n
09-11-2005, 16:37
Clio van, willy engine and valver rear beam sounds better to me...

FlamingMonkey
09-11-2005, 16:37
19 16v are slow compared with the Clio 16v in my opinion, and I HAVE driven both before anyone starts crying :P

Swervin_Mervin
09-11-2005, 16:43
Clio van, willy engine and valver rear beam sounds better to me...

If I go Clio it's keeping it's 1.8 lump for as long as possible.

J o n
09-11-2005, 17:00
van would be a diesel or something anyway though, so would be easier to just throw another engine in imo

Lunner
09-11-2005, 17:12
Saw a 1.2 petrol clio for £90 on auto trader the other week, shitty bonnet, but who cares its a track car.

couple of hundred for engine box, decent suspension set up and you are away

Swervin_Mervin
09-11-2005, 17:14
You could pick up a half decent valver for a few hundred if you look hard enough though, thus saving a hell of a lot of effort.

Andyvalver
09-11-2005, 17:29
Ive never driven a 19 16v do you think they would be less tail happy at higher speeds than a clio? (More stable). If not then just get a clio with willy track :P

Swervin_Mervin
09-11-2005, 17:32
Tail happy is good. That's one thing I like about the clio. Controllable tail wag.

Andyvalver
09-11-2005, 17:36
Tail happy is good but imo not at 80/90mph on long sweeping bends. You could die :shock:

Willy 2
09-11-2005, 17:44
JUST KEEP YOUR FOOT IN IT!!!!!

:twisted: :twisted: :twisted:

:D

northy
09-11-2005, 17:45
depends where u go as to the answer u get.

some swear by the 19 - but its individual taste.

think there is one on ebay thats rally prepped at the min.


CLIO all the way mate - or else move over if u ever get a 19 for us clio boys to get past.

Swervin_Mervin
09-11-2005, 17:53
:P

Only thing that's tempting about the 19 is the price. What weight are they though?

northy
09-11-2005, 17:58
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/renault-19-16v-turbo-rally-car_W0QQitemZ4588197328QQcategoryZ9861QQrdZ1QQcmdZ ViewItem

Swervin_Mervin
09-11-2005, 18:00
You won't be doing any gravel stages in that! :P

MrAtego
09-11-2005, 18:06
Whats he doing, throwing in the transit and the white 19 as well!!

Craig
09-11-2005, 19:22
dont forget williams clios nicked the wide track form the 19's!

Gav
09-11-2005, 19:54
raced a few 19's, shit slow standard!

willy55
09-11-2005, 23:24
raced some to not qiuck from standing start at all and i had the missus and her mate in the car he was on his tod

u33db
10-11-2005, 10:51
This was discussed over on f7power at considerable length and we came to the conclusion that the 19 16v was a a better track car due to being more stable (wider track/longer wheelbase etc)...IIRC Nick Hill sides with this too.

RE The 19 16v being slow comments....19's are never as well maintained as clio valvers so suffer accordingly....they are quick tho if you find a good one and are easier to maintain too due to the engine bay being a fair bit larger.

Arguably look a bit better too...

Swervin_Mervin
10-11-2005, 11:01
Being more stable does not a good track car make.

It's not all about getting round as fast as possible you know. It's about having the most fun.

I'm sure most would admit that Matt in the 106 Rallye at Ty Croes was having a whale of a time hooning round, but he wasn't trying to go as quick round there as fast as possible.

I'm more interested in knowing how playful the 19 is compared to the clio. Is it as adjustable on the limit? Or is it more in the "once the tail's gone, it's gone" group of cars?

FlamingMonkey
10-11-2005, 11:08
Don't get a 19 Mike, why have the slower, shittier looking car on track and drive the valver everyday, better to get a slag of a valver to compliment the road going version.

I had this dilemma a few weeks back and still haven't come to a conclusion, might end up just using the Willy for tracks. Although could be tempted by a dirt cheap valver.

J o n
10-11-2005, 11:08
This was discussed over on f7power at considerable length and we came to the conclusion that the 19 16v was a a better track car due to being more stable (wider track/longer wheelbase etc)...IIRC Nick Hill sides with this too.

thought you just talked about waxing your arches and whose information you have stolen recently and claimed as your own? :wink:

The following is taken from top 5 most posted on threads on F7power

"R19 Vs Clio16v - The wax off! Which spends less time on the road being cleaned?..."

Swervin_Mervin
10-11-2005, 11:12
Don't get a 19 Mike, why have the slower, shittier looking car on track and drive the valver everyday, better to get a slag of a valver to compliment the road going version.

I had this dilemma a few weeks back and still haven't come to a conclusion, might end up just using the Willy for tracks. Although could be tempted by a dirt cheap valver.

Shit cheap valver would be what I'd get if I settled on the clio. Could do with finding one like Kelly's old white one!

u33db
10-11-2005, 11:13
I'd have thought if its for a track car (i.e. racing) then going the quickest would be exactly what its all about but anyway....!

As for the 19 being adjustable on the limit...i'd say it is and gives more control than a clio...IMO with the clio once it breaks away in a spin you're gone but not so with the 19; i hit a patch of frost in my old lowered megane saloon (basically a 19 underneith) at 60 and for the brief seconds i was trying to control it the megane was very responsive...more so than i've experienced a clio to be.

FlamingMonkey
10-11-2005, 11:13
Shit cheap valver would be what I'd get if I settled on the clio. Could do with finding one like Kelly's old white one!

Agreed me too :lol:

J o n
10-11-2005, 11:19
surely the idea of a track car is to have fun? fun is not necessarily going round as fast as possible as Yoz and Fred saw using their valver. As track days are just that, 'track days' then it's about 'fun', you'd be better building a race car if you wanted to go round as fast as possible... something like the TB'd cars

Swervin_Mervin
10-11-2005, 11:21
I'd have thought if its for a track car (i.e. racing) then going the quickest would be exactly what its all about but anyway....!

As for the 19 being adjustable on the limit...i'd say it is and gives more control than a clio...IMO with the clio once it breaks away in a spin you're gone but not so with the 19; i hit a patch of frost in my old lowered megane saloon (basically a 19 underneith) at 60 and for the brief seconds i was trying to control it the megane was very responsive...more so than i've experienced a clio to be.

Trackdays aren't about racing though. Clio is also very controllable on the limit, as Haynes taught me.

Might have to try one before I decide.

Dancliovalver
10-11-2005, 12:11
have u thought about anything else other than renault mate IE the 205 GTI, there pretty kool and can be quite cheap

Swervin_Mervin
10-11-2005, 12:13
309 GTI was mentioned to me, and there's always the possibility of a ZX 16v. They're rare as hell though.

richy
10-11-2005, 21:02
all smaller cars will have tendancys to break away easyier, the 205gti is notorious for lift off oversteer and the williams/valver can do the same, at both angelsey (x2) and donington ive never had a problem with handling, i find the car is well balanced, the only times i have spun is once when i touched a kerb coming into the corner in the wet and spun off slowly and when i was pissing it down and i spun at 70mph! yes the 19 may 'feel' more stable but that dont mean it will be faster, the fact if u put a 19 16v against a clio 16v id go with the clio everyday, slightly lighter and same power but more playable handling, btw i drive both a williams and a r19!

clio/205gti as trackcar anyday!!

Willy 2
10-11-2005, 21:32
Does it have to be a French car?? And front wheel drive at that. Im in the opinion of T Jesus that a track car is all about having fun.

For something equally as cheap to buy second hand, that for a start is nigh on bullet proof and is easy peasy to maintain....
Why dont you go for a E30 BMW 320i or more favourably the 325i. LSD, 170bhp as standard and RWD!!

Nothing more fun than dialing in some oppo lock and holding it there. Im sure youd get a real sense of fun. Running costs would be pretty good with GSF parts at the ready.

I have had two of the E30's in the past and all i can say is that every time you turn the key a huge grin appears!!

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b365/geoffclement/H26sideways.jpg

richy
10-11-2005, 21:35
problem is id have to buy a E30 M3 EVO!

Willy 2
11-11-2005, 00:00
Not sure why youd have to do that? Besides i wouldnt thrash around a car limited to around a few hundred examples such as the Evo Sport.

M3 fair enough, but id have thought they are too expensive, considering the convo were having between a R19 16v and a clio. Most they'll top out at is £1500.

IMHO id go 325i Sport, stripped, caged, and standard for reliability.

How many E30's do you see in the garage being worked on :?: [/quote]

Swervin_Mervin
11-11-2005, 11:22
But then can you pick a 325 up for under 500 notes?

Willy 2
11-11-2005, 11:48
Possibly. It'd be a real sh~tter tho. But for a £800 - a grand you could get something not too bad. Probably wont be a sport, just a 325i, but you can get a 3.91 lsd diff with 25% lockup for about £200-250, and that was the main difference. Same engine as the sport, just differnt int, and not as firm suspension. You can tune em up to about 220bhp on a 2.7 conversion and using a MAF sensor from an e36. Thats plenty when your talking RWD! :twisted:

you should look at www.e30zone.co.uk in for sale bit. Always stuff going there.

Willy 2
11-11-2005, 11:49
Oh and the turbo boys are running anywhere from 260bhp to about 350-400.

I like it a lot.

Swervin_Mervin
11-11-2005, 11:52
I like the idea but it's over budget. I'm looking at a grand including the cost of a cage.

NickFr
11-11-2005, 12:10
I would be inclined to go with a Clio 16v for several reasons....

1. Looks/Image
2. Handling..(The track is a great place to safely find its limits)
3. Some well maintained examples still available within your budget
4. Never saw Ragnotti driving a R19!
5. 16v track car would be more "Resaleable" IMO

Willy 2
11-11-2005, 14:00
This has been sold but you get the idea. This was from the zone. Im looking out for one NOT sold!

1987 E30 BMW 325i FOR TRACK/ROAD ***SOLD***

Straight six 2.5 litre engine (170bhp standard)
Stripped out interior
Adjustable Avo dampers (lowered one inch)
Grooved & vented Tarox brake discs
New Pagid fast road pads
Goodyear ventura tyres
Corbeau Forza bucket seats
Willans 4 point harnesses
Full Scorpion stainless exhaust
Scorpion alarm/imm.
Lots of service history, well maintained.
Waxoil coated chassis and underbody
Electric sunroof, mirrors & aerial
Clear indicator lenses

I’ve enjoyed owning the car for just over a year, but never got round to competing it, and an mr2 means I have to sell it. It has been used as my main road car for that time, including a 45mile round trip to work each day.
172,000 miles
Recent MOT (no problem)
4 months tax
Drives and Handles very well, ideal for road rallying or trackdays etc, or as a fast road car.
Offers around £800

Zollo
12-11-2005, 11:43
I'd love to get a standard 19 and standard Valver around a track to see what's quicker. I reckon there will be a few corners on a few tracks where the 19 will be faster, but overall the Clio would be quicker. And I don't get this 'all 19s have been thrashed, whereas the Clios haven't'. Surely the simple fact is they weigh more and have the same power? :?

A 325i is a great idea, but for one thing....steering. Over four turns lock-to-lock is not ideal! Plus you would go over budget. Great cars though, I had much fun in an E30 325i Sport 8)

A 205 GTi would be my choice, but is very frisky. The Clio is a lot easier to slide about - less snatchy and more progressive - but not as raw.

To get to the point, go for a Valver Mike.