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skipp123
04-03-2005, 13:37
guys iv been thinking and i really really want a williams but iv seen this on autotrader and it looks quite nice and only round the corner, i could raise funds for this car now but id have to wait prob another 4/5months to get enough cash for a willy. what would you do get this for a while and than get a williams or just save save save??? link below

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?page=2&modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=RENAULT&model=CLIO&variant=16v&keywords=&min_pr=75&max_pr=&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=cm23+4pa&miles=1500&max_records=200&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH

skipp123
04-03-2005, 13:38
oh its the 3rd one from the bottom willy blue 63,000miles!!! :?:

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 13:50
Id wait. But depends on your circumstances.

skipp123
04-03-2005, 14:01
why does it seem willys are going for less than half decent valvers at the moment? i dont understand just looked at autotrader and theres 2 willys under 3k, hmmmm

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 14:20
Because they are all tatty. Good ones fetch 5-7k

skipp123
04-03-2005, 14:56
Shit what sort of condition one would i get for 3.5 to 4k theres loads at the mo for those prices

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 15:05
Depends, you can get real nice ones. Trouble is most people have an over infalted opinion of what there car is worth. You go and see 100 Williams' priced at 3-4k and described as mint. Of those 2 or 3 will be mint, 10 to 20 will be good and above average (worth the money), and 80 to 90 % will be worth half that.

For 4 to 5k i would expect:

No crash damage
Full Reno service history
Low mileage (50k to 70 or below)
No curbed alloys
No rust
No marks / dents
No worn tyres
No major mechanical problems
MOT
TAX
Cam belt done on time and professionally
And no major jobs in the near future
Fully standard
Correct tyres
Good brakes

The trouble is they are rare like that. Thats why i bought mine for 2k, knowing i was going to have to spend some money getting it right. Which in a way has been fun, and given my a nice sence of achievement.

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 15:12
One thing i will say is that it is worth buying a tatty Williams 1 and restoring it.


Generally what you spend on the car will add to its value. You wont add £3.5 k to the value if you drop a new engine in it, but the value of the car will go up.

I will never get back the money i spent on my car, but its value is considerably higher than when i bought it. But as i will never sell it, it doesnt matter.

People will disagree with me but 2's and 3's arent as sought after, so generally fetch slightly less than an equivalent 1.

My suggestion is that if you cant afford a mint Williams, get a mechanically sound one, with no major problems and gradually sort problems along the way.

2 live
04-03-2005, 16:28
personally..id go the other way...find the mintest one u can bodywork wise, an engine can be re-honed etc to take it back to oe spec, same cant be said for bodywork.....most mechanical bits are pretty easy to source and replace diy......but unles u a pro painter and have an oven, spray booth and lotsa time, bodywork will cost, and is always visible, to the trained eye

skipp123
04-03-2005, 17:01
thanx guys appreciated by the way is it worth getting a AA guy to come with or not as i know as much abput mechanics as gordon brown about pollitics....

2 live
04-03-2005, 17:03
lol..tbh mate only thing aa good for is if u get them n find out its a ringer or summat afterwards........probs better off taking someone from this site with ya.unless u have a mechanic mate

skipp123
04-03-2005, 17:12
well its quite handy where i work acctully cos 2 doors to the left is a engine rebuilders and 3 doors to the right a mechanics, one of the guys there has a 230bhp fiesta turbo skimmed head pullys all that stuff and he was saying hes built the car from scratch would he be worth a shot do u rekon? if not is anyone near stansted airport???

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 19:09
Youd be mad to go for decent body work over decent mechanical condition.


Put it this way. Would you rather spend 500 to 600 pounds sorting out some rusty arched and dents or £1000 on a new gearbox, £2000 on an engine rebuild, £400 on a cam belt change, £300 on some new drive shafts, £1000 to rebuild the suspension? Ect ect


The mechanicals are way more important than shiney paint job, even more so if you dont have all the tools or skill to do jobs yourself.

Buying a knackered car with a good paint job reminds me of the type of car a fool would buy off Arthur Daily. Its shiny so must be a great car :?

FATBOY
04-03-2005, 22:17
skip! take king with ya! as long as you get him a cuppa and a bacon sarnie he will be happy!

Daz
04-03-2005, 22:58
Youd be mad to go for decent body work over decent mechanical condition.



You sure? :D :oops: :shock: :wink:

What about, both? :lol:

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 23:09
Yes Daz, your right. Better to get a Williams with a cam belt snapped but decent paint work, rather than one with a decent engine but rusty arches and a bonnet dent.

http://cgi.nickywitts.plus.com/uploads/clown.jpg

Daz
04-03-2005, 23:16
I never said that.
I said, get one which is mint mechanically and bodywork wise.

I'm sure there are some out there.

But, if you can't do it yerself, or get it done by someone you know... then yea.. get one mechanically sound rather than bodywork, cus' mechanical side of these cars, things get expensive - quickly..

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 23:27
Daz, not everyone has 6k to spend on a low mileage original paintwork Williams. If not, then my advice is buy the best car you can mechanically, and repair the bodywork as and when you have time.

Nice original paint work is all well and good, but you cant get to work in a car with a nice waxy sheen if it has a broken power steering pump and a dodgy altenator.

If you cant see the logic in this argument then i give up. You try to preach to people about paintwork, when really your not giving newbies helpful advice. Buying a car with mint paintwork may suit YOUR circumstances, and it may be fine to have your car sat in Mat Browns yard awaiting repair. I really thing you need to engage brain before handing out advice based on your own circumstances, and understand most people who buy their car have to drive it everyday, and so it needs a FULL service history, to be mechanically sound, and drivable. Nice paintwork is a bonus or a luxury to those who can afford it.


:roll:

Daz
04-03-2005, 23:34
There are lots of good Williams' out there.. the general advice is, see a few then decide.

I've seen some Williams for 4k and they were rusty. I've seen some for £3.5k with no rust. Both in mechanically the same way.

Some people think selling a Williams makes it worth lots, just because of the badge.. it doesn't.

All I said was, get one with decent bodywork and a decent mechanical side. They exist - and, I bet you they are often the same price as one which is rusty or bad mechanically.
Either way, if you get on with bad rust or bad mechanics, then it will cost a lot to put right.

And 6k is probably a bit high, anyway. I've seen Williams for 3k-3.5k and you'd be happy with it. I sold my Williams 3 for that, and, really.. I doubt you'd EVER drive a better Williams - it was so mechanically sound it was unreal; I regretted selling it a bit.. oh, and no rusty arches/sills either..


Oh,. and my Williams 2 has let me down 2/3 times.. both, it really cocked me up so I agree. My 3, never let me down..
I was || to selling the 2.. I didn't care about bodywork in the end, I just wanted a car - I even looked at Escort RS Turbo's.. now, that's bad.. I think. :oops:
It's giving me shit now, as I do need a car.. haha.

So in conclusion,
I do agree with Stromba. Buy mechanically sound.. but, don't buy the first. See a few, find the best and get that one..

Now, I've typed too much.

KingStromba
04-03-2005, 23:40
Good advice Daz :D

Daz
04-03-2005, 23:42
Deep down, I know.. :wink:

It's just nice... to be mint in both departments.. but they don't stay that long forever. :(

BigBoreBri
04-03-2005, 23:49
Damn... this thing is 18miles away from me!!

Think i might go check this out tommorow... :wink:

Daz
04-03-2005, 23:56
Going back to the 16v,

I'd say wait.. else you'll never be 100% happy. If you do want a Williams, you'll always be thinking you'd wish you'd waited.

I was in same position, and in the end.. I just got a Williams. The price, too.. wasn 't that much different in the end, either.. just insurance.

From being in the same position as you, I'd say wait.. but that's me.

Or, get a 16v and put a 2.0 in it, haha.. cus' they fly!

2 live
05-03-2005, 02:07
like i said..personally id go for bodywork over mechanics.....where u get them prices from stromba god only knows...but if thats what u payin for ur work...knock £100 of the price n il do it........seriously.


why spend good money on having ur car off the road to have arches fitted, wot .a week??..... only to have them start bubbling in another 6 months...then having to have it off road again for another week.....its a viscous circle....

i would say that rust is a pretty good sign that the car has been abused....ok in some areas it cant really be helped what with the salt n shit etc on our roads.........but major body panel replacement after only 10 years is either a neglected car or shit quality paint/steel......which lets face it..if they were that shit there wouldnt be so many minters out there


as stromba has pointed out..quite a lot of the work on these cars is expensive...but not if u know the right people........a grand for a box???? :lol:

only if its fitted with lsd lol....IMO....like i say..gimme 900 n il do it for ya

KingStromba
05-03-2005, 12:15
Jon, empathy is a great skill to have. Being able to see thing from others point of view and understanding how they will feel in a situation.

You seem to have an inability to understand that not all of us are expert mechanics. Most of us would have to take our cars to a garage to be fixed. You are lucky that you can fit a new gearbox yourelf. That would have cost most of us alot more than you paid for it and taken alot of time and effort to fix. For most of us buying a car with a damaged gearbox would be an expensive nightmare. For you its fine. No big problem.

Please try to realise that the advice you give to people on here may affect their purchase descision, and subsquently cost them thousands of pounds. Please give advice according to what their needs are, not your own beliefs. :D

Daz
05-03-2005, 19:13
I had a bit to drink last night when posting.. so I'll conclude whilst sober.. :oops:



If you can do things yourself or have someone who can help you, then get the best bodywork you can.. and fix it mechanically. This is the best option, as you can, really have a mint Williams inside, outside and mechanically.


If you can't do things yourself, and have to use a garage/specialist for things, then definetly, get the best mechanically, forget bodywork (to a degree). Seriously
I had a quote for a clutch change, as I needed one on my 2.. and it was £550 (this was the cheapest I was quoted. (And, I wouldn't use just anyone either!)) - just for a clutch change. Now, I wouldn't be able to keep my Williams if I had to have the things which needed to be done, done at a garage.. I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money on things. I need more than a clutch to be done.. and I'm guessing I'd be into the 000's easily by a long way if I went to a garage/specialist.


You can pick up Williams', with no rust.. for about £3500 if you look around which would be mechanically sound. I've seen lots of them, when I was looking. However, there a lot of Williams' for this money which arn't really that great, so you do have to be careful.

I think, this thread is probably one of the best buying guides ever! :wink:

MatBrown
05-03-2005, 19:49
I had a bit to drink last night when posting.. so I'll conclude whilst sober.. :oops:



If you can do things yourself or have someone who can help you, then get the best bodywork you can.. and fix it mechanically. This is the best option, as you can, really have a mint Williams inside, outside and mechanically.


If you can't do things yourself, and have to use a garage/specialist for things, then definetly, get the best mechanically, forget bodywork (to a degree). Seriously
I had a quote for a clutch change, as I needed one on my 2.. and it was £550 (this was the cheapest I was quoted. (And, I wouldn't use just anyone either!)) - just for a clutch change. Now, I wouldn't be able to keep my Williams if I had to have the things which needed to be done, done at a garage.. I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money on things. I need more than a clutch to be done.. and I'm guessing I'd be into the 000's easily by a long way if I went to a garage/specialist.


You can pick up Williams', with no rust.. for about £3500 if you look around which would be mechanically sound. I've seen lots of them, when I was looking. However, there a lot of Williams' for this money which arn't really that great, so you do have to be careful.

I think, this thread is probably one of the best buying guides ever! :wink:

What you on about?
You car is at a specialist and is nearly costing 000's!

Didn't i tell you? I charge by the hour! :wink:



Mat.

Daz
05-03-2005, 19:51
Hahaha.

Can't argue with that, apart from the "by the hour" part.. *cough* *splutter* :oops:

MatBrown
05-03-2005, 19:52
:twisted:



Mat.

NickFr
05-03-2005, 20:07
All I will say is have patience, go and see at least half a dozen, the last two major purchases I have made, my haste has cost me dear.

I am now very cynical, there are many williams for sale in France, if the price is to be believed the original 1's are still the most valued. the prices however are all over the shop. I have seen 20,000 mile minter for 7k and what appears to be a good willy 2 at 75,000 miles for 2.5k.

Just be carefull and good luck!!

PS Take a look at the owner, most clues are there!!

big hp
05-03-2005, 20:22
Hahaha.

Can't argue with that "by the inch" part.. *cough* *slurp* :oops:

:shock:

KingStromba
05-03-2005, 20:23
Hahaha.

Can't argue with that "by the cm" part.. *cough* *slurp* :oops:

:shock:


:shock:

big hp
05-03-2005, 20:26
Hahaha.

Can't argue with that "by the mm" part.. *cough* *slurp* :oops:

:shock:


:shock:

:shock:

KingStromba
05-03-2005, 20:27
Hahaha.

Can't argue with that "by the um" part.. *cough* *slurp* :oops:

:shock:


:shock:

:shock:

KingStromba
05-03-2005, 20:27
Hahaha.

Can't argue with that "by the um" part.. *cough* *slurp* :oops:

:shock:


:shock:

:shock:

big hp
05-03-2005, 20:35
Spammer :lol:

Daz
05-03-2005, 23:43
:evil:

:P

2 live
06-03-2005, 00:32
stromba .i can see where ur comin from to an extent......but anyone can pick up a haynes, or look on the net for guides to do things mechanically..... i aint no expert technician...... but would rather do stuff meself cos i dont trust other people to do it.. i too have gone to garages for work done n been well n truly spanked.......but i would still choose bodywork over mechanicals........ even if i couldnt do it myself.......or wasnt willing to try........ and like i have said .all IMO

i mean lets face it...if u know nothing about the mechanics side of things.....how u know uv bought a minter under the engine bay??....

anyone could knock a rubber stamp up in the name of a reno dealer, and how u know its not some muppet whos only a little more clued up than u wen its bin serviced??

if the bodywork looks original and mint....id say theres a better chance that the engine and mechanical side of things will have also been looked after to the same high standard.......also as someone else said..look at the owner...

KingStromba
06-03-2005, 00:47
I dont have the time

I dont have the equipment

I dont have the space

I dont have the help

2 live
06-03-2005, 00:53
I dont have the time] how often are u on here??..

I dont have the equipment]....... a decent socket set , a spanner set.axle stands and jack dont cost the earth

I dont have the space].....is ur car suspended in the air when u park it up to not take any spac up???..if u can park.u have space

I dont have the help] help is only a fonecall or short journey away from someone who knows

KingStromba
06-03-2005, 01:24
I dont have the time] how often are u on here??..

I dont have the equipment]....... a decent socket set , a spanner set.axle stands and jack dont cost the earth

I dont have the space].....is ur car suspended in the air when u park it up to not take any spac up???..if u can park.u have space

I dont have the help] help is only a fonecall or short journey away from someone who knows

Please dont judge my situation. If i wanted that id get a girlfriend

MatBrown
06-03-2005, 02:03
Nooooooooooo.

Then we'd have no-one posting on this forum! :wink:



Mat.

big hp
06-03-2005, 11:45
LOL the forum would be 24.32% quieter and 17.51 posts lighter a day. Prob wouldn't need new forum then :wink:

KingStromba
06-03-2005, 12:22
http://cgi.nickywitts.plus.com/uploads/spam2.gif

2 live
06-03-2005, 18:44
lol

skipp123
07-03-2005, 10:12
cheers guys thats helped alot, i think in my circumstance id get a mechanicly sound one as like king said body work should be easyer and cheeper... thanx for all the responce its appreciated...