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VIPERONE
13-09-2005, 01:12
been called to petrol station rage today! madness every petrol station in my area has been gridlocked...insane.. people aguing and fighting over pumps!

OneEyedWilly
13-09-2005, 07:04
:evil: @ the general public. I'm sure the Po-leece have bigger fish to fry.

My Girlfriend received a volley of abuse yesterday for using her innitiative and pulling up on the right hand side of the pumps and pullling the hose across the back of the car.

People were honking horns and shouting abuse. Had one bloke not have apologised to her, they may have been some rage!! he said he was just upaet that he didn't didn't do the same. People are such ****ing lemmings. And british people will sit in a queue all ****ing day. lol.

northy
13-09-2005, 07:40
dicks....its unreal how people react to things and make it worse.

Zollo
13-09-2005, 07:49
:shock:

Great, so when I do need to fill up, there won't be any anywhere :roll:

Alphacentaure
13-09-2005, 08:59
And this even before any protest having started officially!! :shock:

J o n
13-09-2005, 09:01
well once i'm on the red warning light I wont be going back into work until it's all sorted out... i think everyone should just **** work off and make the country go into a recession... then we can finally get rid of that twat Tony Blair...

j3ned
13-09-2005, 11:51
^^ EXACTLY MY VIEW ^^ and i will be doing that

Dancliovalver
13-09-2005, 12:02
theres 4 petrol stations in melton and there all shut, i have to travel 20 odd miles to loughborough to fill up :cry:

Slithers
13-09-2005, 12:06
Good job i clocked that this was going to happen and filled up yesterday.

J o n
13-09-2005, 12:18
managed to find optimax yesterday at 99.9p immediately after Sy had gone and paid 101.9 from the one in Bramhall Matt... lol

need this to last me til Tuesday... as pay day will be required to fill up the way things are... £5 a litre before you know it... but as long as Americans are paying a third of what we do and have on average 2 6 litre petrol V8's per person it's okay... this country is a ****ing joke, I know we 'can' move, but why should we let our government drive us out... unless this their plan? Get rid of all Brits and let all the immigrants in, sorted...

2 live
13-09-2005, 12:35
lol..was same in burnley las nite.i only stopped off for a pasty at the esso....forecourt was heaving, cars queueing up....all garages where i am had sold out.

passed a petrol station in billinge about 2am this morn. so we both decided to stick a bit of fuel in the vans....i filled up no probs..me mate put a tenner in....when we went to pay..i paid first....20 odd quid..me mate looked at me n was like...wtf?? ........'dint u see the sign outside??'........errrrrrr wot sign??........£10 max at a time...lol


dint fukkin see that haha



told him to drive off n come back n put another tenner in then...see..saving fuel in he confusion hehe

kj16v
13-09-2005, 12:54
Hee hee, filled up yesterday cuz I remembered what it was like last time!

Damn Brown. Heard him talking crap about it being a global crisis and not a matter of reducing tax. What a load of crap. The current situation has made fuel price rise from about 20 -odd pence per litre to 30-odd pence. The rest is all unneccesary tax. Which I assume goes on bombing various arab countries.

I'm all for the fuel protests

2 live
13-09-2005, 12:59
apparently...the main reason we have a shortage is cos good ol blair has given wanker bush all our back up supplies.....like they havent already got enough with capped wells etc.

J o n
13-09-2005, 13:05
yeah, be fair, you'd want cheap petrol if you had 2 V8 trucks and a Mustang and did a combined 200k a year between all cars... afterall, Americans are encouraged to drive EVERYWHERE. Takes the ****ing piss really, we suffer so the American govt can play more war...

2 live
13-09-2005, 13:08
not only that...but we give em all ours so they can play longer....cos u can garantee that the twats wont return the favour when our supplies are dead...theyl only open the wells they got then, and it will be for their own use.....wankers.. :twisted:

clowo16v
13-09-2005, 13:11
LOL I got shouted at today because there was a massive queue up one entrance to the petrol station so I thought **** that and went up the "unofficial law" exit lol. Told the bloke there were no NO ENTRY signs and he shut up lol.

Only put a tenner in aswell. Saved me about 20 minutes lol.

See ya

MAtt

J o n
13-09-2005, 13:26
not only that...but we give em all ours so they can play longer....cos u can garantee that the twats wont return the favour when our supplies are dead...theyl only open the wells they got then, and it will be for their own use.....wankers.. :twisted:

yup, it's a farce... oh well, glad i'm a dual national, i'll go to the US when we run out over here... dont worry tho, i'll find a home for everyone's Williams! hehe

2 live
13-09-2005, 13:31
i hear properties cheap in new orleans at the min.

every property has its own private pool, and garden with water feature and skeletel rockeries too

J o n
13-09-2005, 13:40
lol, what's scary is that this city is almost entirely black populated and despite warnings of the levees (sp) not being strong enough they chose to ignore it for the past three years and cut the budget... tossers. racial equality? not with a ****ing retarded red neck running the country!

Swervin_Mervin
13-09-2005, 13:42
It's a few less non-republicans for the next election though eh?

Had to pick a route today that involved going past no peccy stations. Just about managed it. :twisted:

Rach No1GR
13-09-2005, 15:41
It is a bit silly everyone panic buying petrol, a lot of petrol garages put there prices up to take advantage of it, i have enough in mine to get to work and back till the weekend and the Toyota is sat on my drive with nearly a full tank in it since taking it to Trax so if i run out i'll just use the toyota instead so not really worried.

When it happened in 2000 a work colleague queued for over an hour before work to get fuel, peed in a coke bottle in the car when he needed to go cause he wasnt going to get out of the car and lose any places lol !

Kelly
13-09-2005, 16:21
I had to fill up last night because the coupe was running dry - queued in the shortest queue at the local Shell garage and got petrol within 5 minutes or so. The pump only had Optimax on it and the w@nker 'panic buyers' wouldn't pay the cost. Coupe won't run on cheapo petrol :lol:

Suppose thats one good thing. Still considering an LPG conversion though :lol:

BRUN
13-09-2005, 16:30
ive got a jerry can full of Optimax hehe

Lunner
13-09-2005, 18:38
I'm not bothered tbh, i ahve 1/4 of a tank, wil prolly fill up tongiht at some point, just becasue i'm running opn empty, was gonna fill up a 20 ltr jerry can, but its only for 3 effing days, and i;m not doing any massive journeys over the next couple of weeks

richy
13-09-2005, 19:25
makes ya laugh all these, i have 1/2 tank which should see me to friday with luck, if not im sitting at home lol!!

Justin..
13-09-2005, 19:37
well once i'm on the red warning light I wont be going back into work until it's all sorted out... i think everyone should just f*ck work off and make the country go into a recession... then we can finally get rid of that twat Tony Blair...

well said jesus, BOOOOOOOOO @ blair

makes me wish i'd voted so cant say much really :roll:

BigBoreBri
13-09-2005, 19:44
Who would u rather have voted for tho??

There all back-stabbing money grabbing greedy w*nkers.... :roll:



Actually that sounds a lot like my boss, except he's also a c*nt!, lol :twisted:

richy
13-09-2005, 19:45
Who would u rather have voted for tho??

There all back-stabbing money grabbing greedy w*nkers.... :roll:



Actually that sounds a lot like my boss, except he's also a c*nt!, lol :twisted:

this is the problem i had when voting, i dont like blair but thee others are even worse by looks, who can u trust?? no one!!!!!!!!

Justin..
13-09-2005, 19:46
BNP BNP BNP BNP

Zollo
13-09-2005, 19:47
Who would u rather have voted for tho??

There all back-stabbing money grabbing greedy w*nkers.... :roll:



Actually that sounds a lot like my boss, except he's also a c*nt!, lol :twisted:

this is the problem i had when voting, i dont like blair but thee others are even worse by looks, who can u trust?? no one!!!!!!!!

Exactly why I don't vote. They're all as bad as each other :roll:

Slithers
13-09-2005, 19:48
Its an incredibly naive point of view that not having blair in power would have stopped the rise on petrol prices.

This would have happened which ever government been in power.

BigBoreBri
13-09-2005, 19:48
Glad we all agree.... :D

J o n
14-09-2005, 08:42
i disagree, Blair's forreign politics are aweful, he's a complete pussy and will do anything to make the US happy... like giving them our oil reserves. Petrol was due to go up anyway and if you can remember back a year ago guess what? It's been going up ALL year!!! I think a conservative govt would have stopped at some point and hopefully taxed something else, or stopped the stupid public spending on retarded shit like Millenium ****ing domes, i didn't give the okay for Blair to use my tax paying money for that shit... i'd rather they stabalise the economy rather than try and impress foreign officials and house up imigrants. Blair's a reactive leader, he waits for the shit to hit the fan and get to crisis levels before he acts... and even then his pride makes him imovable on most issues. The best is when we are told our petrol is actually one of the cheapest in Europe... but the reason we are paying more than every other c**t is because of TAX... You know in Guernsey they pay 46p a litre average? How's that possible then? Is that fair?

NickFr
14-09-2005, 09:35
Well, all I know is that that the Duty on UK fuel is double that of europe, I confess to little knowledge of economics, but why if the UK is doing so well can I get a normal mortgage in France at 2.5% and a car loan for 3.4%. :D Rip off Britain!

The French minister has just told farmers here, that he will fine the Oil companies if they don't lower their prices....currently 1.42 Euros per litre...this increase is entirely down to greed not duty imposed by the Goverment!

J o n
14-09-2005, 10:42
they say we are running out of oil, but that's a load of crap too, it's so unscrupulous governments can make a shit load of profit... usually to fund a war or nuclear missile project. lol

Swervin_Mervin
14-09-2005, 10:56
We actually pay nearly the same as most of the developed EU countries like Italy, Germany and France. We're also paying a smaller percentage (66% from 77%) than when teh last fuel strikes were on.

Unfortunately this means thay can sit there and smugly state as much.

J o n
14-09-2005, 11:22
here's the breakdown http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/05/business_petrol_pricing/html/1.stm

I could understand if it was spent on transport, so why are we paying so much tax? Clearly this is to cover our govt's shortfalls in other areas.

Swervin_Mervin
14-09-2005, 11:31
I agree. Should be like the yanks who bung the lot back in to the transport system.

Things will only get worse as well when they have to make up for the shortfall due to bringing in a public smoking ban.

This country sucks balls.

J o n
14-09-2005, 11:45
if we paid the petrol costs of the Yanks I'd go out tomorrow and buy the new Mustang RHD...

Tommo
14-09-2005, 11:49
The price of things in this country is a joke, not just petrol but everything, clothes, houses, fags, booze etc. and it's because of the extortionate tax rates, no wonder every f*cker is in debt!

Nick, the French have got the right attitude and don't take any shit, just wish our government was a bit more like yours! Why is it all these other European countries can have such low taxes and a stable economy and we can't??

Rip off Britain is the right phrase....

Swervin_Mervin
14-09-2005, 11:51
It's just the way it is. Everything costs more at every level so taxes have to be higher. If taxes were lower we'd get paid less.

Thing is taxes in europe aren't necessarily lower as they have higher rates of income tax etc. However it is telling that one of the key sticking areas for us going fully in to the EU is not giving up control of our taxes. I wonder why that is....

J o n
14-09-2005, 12:02
the other problem is that we dont produce or make anything and taxing services is a much more difficult thing to do... no wonder the Britts are perceived as being repressed!

NickFr
14-09-2005, 12:03
One thing worth noting however is that the unemployment rate in France is over 10% as compared to 4% in the UK.

I suspect that the one thing We will all have in common is We will have have to pay the price of driving nice motors. A good point was made that whilst the price of oil is high there is considerably more research done into other fuel sources....electric and hybrids etc

kj16v
14-09-2005, 12:54
BNP BNP BNP BNP
Don't be a twat :roll:


I don't know much about what goes on in Europe but I don't think it's all that great everywhere. I hear Germany's not doing to well at all at the moment.

J o n
14-09-2005, 14:00
BNP BNP BNP BNP
Don't be a twat :roll:


I don't know much about what goes on in Europe but I don't think it's all that great everywhere. I hear Germany's not doing to well at all at the moment.

Just noticed that... hope your joking too as a lot of my close friends are non white... i've also dealt with BNP members and leaders when on jury duty and they are not nice people and their policy is just plain scary... manipulating cunts

Alphacentaure
14-09-2005, 14:32
One thing worth noting however is that the unemployment rate in France is over 10% as compared to 4% in the UK.



These are just 2 numbers. The definition for an unemployed person is different in both country. As an example, unemployement in ancient Rome was 0%. Were they better off working as slaves :cry: or is it better to have a higher unemployed rate with higher average salaries? :roll: Economic performance is great if not pushed at the detriment of welfare. Would every Brit ready to work under Chinese labour conditions? If they would the UK growth would certainly mach the Chinese. Would this be worth doing if it would allow us to boast about great economic performance? I don't think so.

I do not believe for a second that the number of unemployed people in the UK is 4% or they must all live in greater Manchester, or is it Glasgow? Newcastle maybe. There are so many deprived areas you can pick and choose where they all live.

J o n
14-09-2005, 14:41
wow, so do we have slaves then or France, as our employment rate is higher?

Slithers
14-09-2005, 15:05
i disagree, Blair's forreign politics are aweful, he's a complete pussy and will do anything to make the US happy... like giving them our oil reserves. Petrol was due to go up anyway and if you can remember back a year ago guess what? It's been going up ALL year!!! I think a conservative govt would have stopped at some point and hopefully taxed something else, or stopped the stupid public spending on retarded shit like i didn't give the okay for Blair to use my tax paying money for that shit... i'd rather they stabalise the economy rather than try and impress foreign officials and house up imigrants. Blair's a reactive leader, he waits for the shit to hit the fan and get to crisis levels before he acts... and even then his pride makes him imovable on most issues. The best is when we are told our petrol is actually one of the cheapest in Europe... but the reason we are paying more than every other c**t is because of TAX... You know in Guernsey they pay 46p a litre average? How's that possible then? Is that fair?

Tories actually started the millenium dome project, and wasted most of the tax payers money building it.

And to think that any government would have acted differently is plain stupid jon, the petrol prices would have gone up whoever was been in power, petrol goes up every year.

And the economy is around the best as its been for ages, look at the £ to $ ratio

Oh and micheal portillo (shadow home secretary of the time iirc), wanted to abolish the NHS. Private healthcare sir? you'd soon forget about fuel tax when the health bills start dropping thru your letterbox.

No government does everything right, and for the people who sit around moaning about it.....get of your arse and do something about it if it pisses you off so much, write to your m.p, organise a petition, peaceful protest...heck start a revolution if your that aggreived, thats why we have a democracy.

Im not sayin blairs perfect (in fact i dislike him as much as the others), i dont trust any of em at all i think their all lying bastards.

Tommo
14-09-2005, 15:21
I might be in the monority here but I don't care too much about the petrol prices in the UK. Since it has started creeping up all year it has pretty much forced me to get my ass down to the train station and start using this service every day to get to work. And you know what, it's fookin brilliant. No traffic jams, no stress of getting caught speeding or getting parking fines, and it keeps the miles/wear and tear off the williams.

I sympathise with the people who have no other option than to use their car, but if you have a local train station you can use for every day commuting my advice is to use it cos petrol prices aint gonna come down never matter how much of a fuss is kicked up about it...

Alphacentaure
14-09-2005, 15:37
wow, so do we have slaves then or France, as our employment rate is higher?

The slave bit was just a figure of speech. Unumployement rate only does not reflect on the people welfare, one cannot say a country fairs better because it has a smaller a smaller percentage out of work. Loads of other factors come into the equation.

Justin..
14-09-2005, 17:03
BNP BNP BNP BNP
Don't be a twat :roll:


I don't know much about what goes on in Europe but I don't think it's all that great everywhere. I hear Germany's not doing to well at all at the moment.

Just noticed that... hope your joking too as a lot of my close friends are non white... i've also dealt with BNP members and leaders when on jury duty and they are not nice people and their policy is just plain scary... manipulating cunts


lol sorry peeps shoulda thought about that a bit more :oops:

J o n
14-09-2005, 17:04
i disagree, Blair's forreign politics are aweful, he's a complete pussy and will do anything to make the US happy... like giving them our oil reserves. Petrol was due to go up anyway and if you can remember back a year ago guess what? It's been going up ALL year!!! I think a conservative govt would have stopped at some point and hopefully taxed something else, or stopped the stupid public spending on retarded shit like i didn't give the okay for Blair to use my tax paying money for that shit... i'd rather they stabalise the economy rather than try and impress foreign officials and house up imigrants. Blair's a reactive leader, he waits for the shit to hit the fan and get to crisis levels before he acts... and even then his pride makes him imovable on most issues. The best is when we are told our petrol is actually one of the cheapest in Europe... but the reason we are paying more than every other c**t is because of TAX... You know in Guernsey they pay 46p a litre average? How's that possible then? Is that fair?

Tories actually started the millenium dome project, and wasted most of the tax payers money building it. - I thought it was Blair... http://millennium-dome.tripod.com/pleasuredome.htm either way, he seems happy with somewhere for his agenda meetings to take place

And to think that any government would have acted differently is plain stupid jon, the petrol prices would have gone up whoever was been in power, petrol goes up every year. - yes i realise this you fool, there's going up every year and there taking the piss tho... if you drove as many miles as I do it would probably anger you as well. Can you remember what price petrol was this time last year, or the year before? I wasn't over £1 that's for ****ing sure!

And the economy is around the best as its been for ages, look at the £ to $ ratio - not really relevent to petrol prices tho is it? if it was petrol would be cheaper than the last 10 years as the pound has not been this strong against the dollar for longer than that. It would also mean when we are out of crisis it should go down in price significantly.

Oh and micheal portillo (shadow home secretary of the time iirc), wanted to abolish the NHS. Private healthcare sir? you'd soon forget about fuel tax when the health bills start dropping thru your letterbox. - if they did it properly though it wouldn't be a problem, we'd pay significantly less tax and be able to afford health insurance. Had they done it they may have got it right by now, but as the UK is such an expensive place to live they would more realistically forced people to sell up and move

No government does everything right, and for the people who sit around moaning about it.....get of your arse and do something about it if it pisses you off so much, write to your m.p, organise a petition, peaceful protest...heck start a revolution if your that aggreived, thats why we have a democracy. - dont be so stupid, you think writing to MP's will make a blind bit of difference when all they have to do is switch the news on to hear people saying its a joke? democracy? no, capitalists run this country, get real.

Im not sayin blairs perfect (in fact i dislike him as much as the others), i dont trust any of em at all i think their all lying bastards. :roll:

yeah they are, but i didn't vote the cnut in... it's nice to vent, plus it's an interesting topic

Zollo
14-09-2005, 17:19
The economy, cost of living and quality of life is no worse in this country than it is anywhere else in the world. You go out drinking? You have televisions, playstations, DVD players, bluetooth phones? You have a wardrobe full of decent clothes? You have a hot hatch that you spend hundreds of pounds each month on? You eat all you want? If you're old enough, you own a house? You have a decent (in my experience anyway) medical service and public infrastructure?

Everyone complains about how expensive it is to live in this country, but still manage to live absolutely no worse than the rest of Western civilisation. So how exactly are the British so hard done by when all but the poorest have all of the above?

The worst thing about this country is the fookin' weather, simple as that.

NB. I reserve the right to complain and winge when I fill up with petrol, pay my tax or have to put up with any other shite the government give me.

Slithers
14-09-2005, 18:06
i disagree, Blair's forreign politics are aweful, he's a complete pussy and will do anything to make the US happy... like giving them our oil reserves. Petrol was due to go up anyway and if you can remember back a year ago guess what? It's been going up ALL year!!! I think a conservative govt would have stopped at some point and hopefully taxed something else, or stopped the stupid public spending on retarded shit like i didn't give the okay for Blair to use my tax paying money for that shit... i'd rather they stabalise the economy rather than try and impress foreign officials and house up imigrants. Blair's a reactive leader, he waits for the shit to hit the fan and get to crisis levels before he acts... and even then his pride makes him imovable on most issues. The best is when we are told our petrol is actually one of the cheapest in Europe... but the reason we are paying more than every other c**t is because of TAX... You know in Guernsey they pay 46p a litre average? How's that possible then? Is that fair?

Tories actually started the millenium dome project, and wasted most of the tax payers money building it. - I thought it was Blair... http://millennium-dome.tripod.com/pleasuredome.htm either way, he seems happy with somewhere for his agenda meetings to take place


Nope the original plan was instigated by the tories way before blair was in power.

And to think that any government would have acted differently is plain stupid jon, the petrol prices would have gone up whoever was been in power, petrol goes up every year. - yes i realise this you fool, there's going up every year and there taking the piss tho... if you drove as many miles as I do it would probably anger you as well. Can you remember what price petrol was this time last year, or the year before? I wasn't over £1 that's for ****ing sure!

Well if your aware they go up every year by a bullshit amount, why you moaning about it? + sooner or later on the price was going to go over a quid, it wasnt going to stop at 99.9999999999p and gain a few decimals every year.

And the economy is around the best as its been for ages, look at the £ to $ ratio - not really relevent to petrol prices tho is it? if it was petrol would be cheaper than the last 10 years as the pound has not been this strong against the dollar for longer than that. It would also mean when we are out of crisis it should go down in price significantly.

Very very very very relevant jon

If the pound was weaker over the past 10 years the petrol prices would be even higher than what we are paying at the moment.

Petrol go down in price?!?!?!?!, lol

Oh and micheal portillo (shadow home secretary of the time iirc), wanted to abolish the NHS. Private healthcare sir? you'd soon forget about fuel tax when the health bills start dropping thru your letterbox. - if they did it properly though it wouldn't be a problem, we'd pay significantly less tax and be able to afford health insurance. Had they done it they may have got it right by now, but as the UK is such an expensive place to live they would more realistically forced people to sell up and move

Yeah right very few people in this country could afford private health care, no matter how well its run.

What happens when you got a mortage and a family and a 3 grand bill for an operation comes thru the door, what you gonna do then?

Im sure the 20p or so you've saved an every litre will come in well handy.

No government does everything right, and for the people who sit around moaning about it.....get of your arse and do something about it if it pisses you off so much, write to your m.p, organise a petition, peaceful protest...heck start a revolution if your that aggreived, thats why we have a democracy. - dont be so stupid, you think writing to MP's will make a blind bit of difference when all they have to do is switch the news on to hear people saying its a joke? democracy? no, capitalists run this country, get real.

Hmmmm, in the recent ukraine election didnt the power of the people manage to overturn a foul election?

When people get together jon and express voice their troubles, when enough voices are heard people WILL take note.

Capilists run this country? o.k :? , but we are still a democracy - and id rather live here than somewhere where i could get shot for voicing my feelings.

Im not sayin blairs perfect (in fact i dislike him as much as the others), i dont trust any of em at all i think their all lying bastards. :roll:

yeah they are, but i didn't vote the cnut in... it's nice to vent, plus it's an interesting topic

True

J o n
14-09-2005, 18:31
it's not the fact they are rising, as I said that is bound to happen. the problem is and the reason people are getting pissed off is they used to rise by decimals, not several pence at a time and throughout the year. the strength of the economy should slow this down, not speed the prices up. we pay too much tax on everything in this country imo, you've just said this yourself as your saying people wouldn't be able to afford private health care because of mortgage rates etc etc. if they could get the balance between a tax break and having pvt health care maybe it would work, but taxes would have to be significantly lower on everything.

the ukraine has no bearing on what goes on in terms of how our govt will react, cast your mind back to 2000 when the blockades were taking place and even all this pressure did nothing more that slow the rise in fuel prices. it went on for too long and the govt only lost a bit of face... there was no revolution.

Justin..
14-09-2005, 18:39
pettrol prices are on average up 25% against this time last year apparently

Slithers
14-09-2005, 18:44
it's not the fact they are rising, as I said that is bound to happen. the problem is and the reason people are getting pissed off is they used to rise by decimals, not several pence at a time and throughout the year. the strength of the economy should slow this down, not speed the prices up. we pay too much tax on everything in this country imo, you've just said this yourself as your saying people wouldn't be able to afford private health care because of mortgage rates etc etc. if they could get the balance between a tax break and having pvt health care maybe it would work, but taxes would have to be significantly lower on everything.

the ukraine has no bearing on what goes on in terms of how our govt will react, cast your mind back to 2000 when the blockades were taking place and even all this pressure did nothing more that slow the rise in fuel prices. it went on for too long and the govt only lost a bit of face... there was no revolution.

After the 2000 petrol crisis average cost per litre dropped to 72 pence, and they have always risen in pence not decimels.

http://www.whatprice.co.uk/car/petrol-prices.php

And the ukraine had pretty much an entire nation camped outside parliament for ages, and they got what they wanted, like i said if enough people are heard the powers that be have to take note.

Anyway im off to the pub to watch the manyoo game.

NickFr
14-09-2005, 19:18
Interesting article on Tax

Tax and public spending - who pays, who gains?
A BIG issue in the election campaign debate on the economy has been tax and public spending. Understandably, bamboozled with 'facts', 'counter-facts', statistics and bare-faced lies, many potential voters switched off weeks ago. They rightly conclude that whether New Labour, Tory or Liberal, politicians representing big business are not to be trusted.

In reality very little divides the three main parties on tax and public spending. Although Blair promised not to increase the basic or top rates of income tax in 2001 (a pledge he repeated in this election) the government hiked up national insurance contributions in 2003 to pay for extra spending on the NHS.

New Labour has not ruled out doing the same again. In total since 1997 it has increased taxes by £26.4 billion, with working people paying a greater proportion of their income in tax than the rich.

The Office of National Statistics says the poorest 20% of the population pay 37.8% of their gross income in tax (including VAT, fuel tax etc) compared to just 35.1% for the richest 20%. The tax paid by the poorest 10% rose from 44% in 1997 to 46.7% in 2003.

Meanwhile, corporation tax has been slashed by the government to just 30%. Twenty years ago it was 52%. The rich have pocketed this extra cash for themselves along with the massive profits they made over the past few years.

In the 1980s and 1990s public spending was cut back as a proportion of national income. In their first term, New Labour also cut public spending by 2.6%, while raising taxes by 2.4%. This created a budget surplus by the 2001 general election.

In their second term, public spending was increased by 3.3%, mainly on the NHS and education, with local government continuing to face shortfalls resulting in cuts, privatisation and big increases in council tax.

Brown has pledged to increase public spending by 3% a year and Howard by 2%. But most economists, including the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the International Monetary Fund, warn that which ever party wins the election they will have to increase taxes by £11 billion and/or cut public spending in order to plug the big hole in public finances.

This deficit has grown over the last few years because of government borrowing, £34.4 billion in 2004, partly to compensate for the shortfall in corporation tax, estimated at £26 billion, 2.1% of national income.

J o n
15-09-2005, 09:27
yup, like I said, capitalists run this country, as long as big business and rich individuals stay that way that's all the govt are mainly interested in... drug and oil companies being the main benefactors of all this.