16V love

[Ayli Carper]

Am I the only one deeply interested in the 16V up for sale?

http://www.fast-classics.com/cars/renault-clio-1-8-16v-for-sale/

The turbine alloys, the natty seats, it's all so understated. 51K miles, just about enough to show it's been used properly so may not have every item of rubber fail within 200 miles of purchase.

I've sometimes thought about turbine wheels to tone the Williams down, but I must admit I find myself seriously tempted to buy this car and use the Williams as a winter banger for it, or even chop the old girl in for it.

I thought I'd take a look at the competition, but there is just one slightly dodgy looking hybrid 16V/172 engine/body kit/needs a load doing I can see why they're getting rid the whole thing got out of hand and she says it can't stay on the drive.

Maybe I've lost the ability to filter Clio 16V on Ebay ('Not Williams': 0, 'Valver': 0). There's a rather nice diesel RT and some pampered auto RNs knocking around, but it seems that mk1 Clios have vanished.

It won't be long until there are more Williams than Valvers around. In fact I daren't look on How Many Left because it may have already happened. Certainly the days of the £250 'buy it for the rear quarters' 16V bargain seem to be gone, thank God.

That price looked ridiculous to start with but from where I am, it's not looking silly at all right now, just a few quid more than a brand new Renault made in Romania.

*sigh*

[16v_paddy]

Pretty sure Williams outnumber valvers now

[Ayli Carper]

Pretty sure Williams outnumber valvers now

That really doesn't surprise me. If you put this and the low mileage Williams that failed to auction last week next to each other at a French classics car show, I'm pretty sure which one would get all the attention.

Edit - there are some (well, three I think) valvers on car and classic, but mainly Williams clones, which is a shame. Nice one in Portugal, which would make for an entertaining drive home.

[mrodz]

You need to join the 16V owners group on FB - cars pop up for sale now and again there. The car in question was also discussed there, seems like it was pimped up for sale and has had some nice photos taken (having previously been sold for under 3k if I remember correctly).

[white16valver]

Just to bump this thread a bit, is there any actual demand for valvers?

I think it is a crying shame they are not more loved, they all seem to have disappeared and no-one cares :-(


The issue I have is that mine needs a load of bodywork doing as it's been standing for so long :-( (I was supposed to have got rich by now and overhauled it, but life is a bit crap really...) But if I sell it then I fear it will just be broken for parts rather than made better again :-(

[theweekendhaslanded]

Just to bump this thread a bit, is there any actual demand for valvers?

I think it is a crying shame they are not more loved, they all seem to have disappeared and no-one cares :-(


The issue I have is that mine needs a load of bodywork doing as it's been standing for so long :-( (I was supposed to have got rich by now and overhauled it, but life is a bit crap really...) But if I sell it then I fear it will just be broken for parts rather than made better again :-(

i might be up for a project soon 😀

Lets have a look at the beauty. I have a soft spot for the phase 1 or 1.5, ideally in black but white would do 😎

[Ayli Carper]

i might be up for a project soon 

Lets have a look at the beauty. I have a soft spot for the phase 1 or 1.5, ideally in black but white would do 

...if it's anything like my old 'standing for so long' car, it might well be green by now.

I hope this match-up works out. Put up some pictures please!

[alex]

I had mk2 16v 15 odd years ago. I loved that car. Even did a car check on it the other day, 198000k and still taxed and mot'd so must be knocking around somewhere.
Agree they must be harder to find than a williams.

[northy]

do you have a reg Alex so i can check up?

[alex]

M313 TPU

[Wobba]

Pretty sure Williams outnumber valvers now


Shut up twatface.

I had this copy of Performance Car as well...

[Wobba]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Clio-1-8-16v-mk1-/222118758336?hash=item33b74f47c0:g:2HoAAOSwt7pXODw x

Big money!

[Ayli Carper]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Clio-1-8-16v-mk1-/222118758336?hash=item33b74f47c0:g:2HoAAOSwt7pXODw x

Big money!

... and the gearknob is a disgrace!

[16v_paddy]

Shut up twatface.

I had this copy of Performance Car as well...

My source has much more credibility than I do on the subject so take your common as muck blue thingy & stfu :tongue3:

[Ayli Carper]

Originally posted by Wobba:

"Shut up twatface.

I had this copy of Performance Car as well..."


My source has much more credibility than I do on the subject so take your common as muck blue thingy & stfu :tongue3:

Now, now gentlemen, no need for intemperate language or bad feeling, this is MY thread, and its title is about love and not petty rancour.

http://i324.photobucket.com/albums/k347/AyliCarper/carland%20roger%20Copy_zpsebqt0seh.jpg (http://s324.photobucket.com/user/AyliCarper/media/carland%20roger%20Copy_zpsebqt0seh.jpg.html)

[andxm]

Agree with thinking that 16v is pretty unloved these days. Hopefully the 3x nice examples for sale recently at strong money will wake up the market. I was lucky enough to bag a tatty but rot free 449 blue phase1 in 2014 and have started to recomission it with the aim of getting it MOT'd and usable.
Even in it's current state it's a riot to drive and makes me smile...a lot!

[Ayli Carper]

Agree with thinking that 16v is pretty unloved these days. Hopefully the 3x nice examples for sale recently at strong money will wake up the market. I was lucky enough to bag a tatty but rot free 449 blue phase1 in 2014 and have started to recomission it with the aim of getting it MOT'd and usable.
Even in it's current state it's a riot to drive and makes me smile...a lot!

Don't knock tatty. Photos please.

[white16valver]

i might be up for a project soon 

Lets have a look at the beauty. I have a soft spot for the phase 1 or 1.5, ideally in black but white would do 


...if it's anything like my old 'standing for so long' car, it might well be green by now.

I hope this match-up works out. Put up some pictures please!


Don't knock tatty. Photos please.


I fear my rust is rampaging to the point of terminality :-( but I wish I had the cash to get it up and running again - it was an insane drive on a good road!

I'll have to get some pics up to get some diagnoses on whether it's destined for car heaven :-(

[Braddaz1]

Its nice to dig up an old thread 😊

So what's everyone's thoughts on the 16v and Williams variants? I'm looking for a cheap(ish) "project" of either of these. I get it that the 16v was the poor relation at the time, but has the mood changed and have they now became the more sought after car (apart from the Williams 1's)?

[Ayli Carper]

I think the only honest answer to that question is a firm no.

But I know that if I was looking for a 205gti, I'd only be looking for a 1.6 and not a 1.9.

Love this: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/renault-clio-1-8-16v-phase-1-172-cup-182-Williams-/182429457771?hash=item2a79a49d6b:g:PM0AAOSwo4pYg4O q

[Braddaz1]

I'm a fan of it too, which has got me thinking. If I'm honest it's probably too nice (and expensive) for me to call it a project.

I'm leaning towards a Williams, but an attractive 16v project will probably fit the bill.

I'll keep my feelers out there and see what I can come across.

Thanks for the reply and apologies for digging up an old thread.

[Ayli Carper]

No apologies needed. It's an old thread I started and have a lot of time for. Keep us updated with your progress.

[Braddaz1]

I certainly will. It might take a while to find the right one for my circumstances, but at least I've got a Cossie to play with in the meantime 😎

[16v_paddy]

Poor relation?!?! :shock: The 16v is the Williams' big brother, the original, without which the Williams wouldn't exist respect your elders dammit! :rant: :lol:

The Williams is only a road going version of the Cup racer but with a cobbled together as cheaply as possible 2 litre engine & sold for homolgation purposes so not much in it in the grand scheme of things.

I'd say it's not so much as a mood change with regards to the 16v's, more a case of being forgotten about by the masses due to being overshadowed by the Williams and a lot have disappeared & are now fewer in numbers than the Williams.
Last year being the 25th anniversary of the Clio itself has brought about a bit of resurgence of the 16v which is certainly reflected in the increase in value of them which has also been helped by the big increase in the value of the Williams in recent years.

As for buying a 16v, the grey 1 linked is at the top of the scale in terms of quality and I've told the guy selling it that it's probably too cheap as bringing 1 of the others available for sale atm up to the same standard will cost a hell of a lot more than the asking price. The grey J reg I've recently bought needs the best part of £2k spending on it to bring it up to the same standard and it cost me £2k just to buy it. Ok I paid over the odds for it as it wasn't actually for sale but I'd been after that particular car for nearly 7 years so I saw it as mine and nobody else is allowed to have it :lol:

There's a couple of projects up for sale on the facebook pages and prices are slowly on the up so probably beneficial to do it sooner rather than later

Here's my 2 Valvers

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8235&stc=1

[Braddaz1]

Great reply! There's no arguing with that. Having being scanning the net for 16v's and Williams', I'm certainly finding more Williams' out there.

There's only a couple of valvers. You've got a nice collection there.

[Fdl76]

Good morning,

I could not agree more with Paddy, sold my williams 2 and bought the 16V cup car from portugal at Fast classic.
But 16V value is going up only because williams is pulling the train... I would say 16V for connaisseurs and Williams for speculators...

Cheers
Fred

[Braddaz1]

I'm liking this love for the 16v.

[Gustavo7]

The Williams is only a road going version of the Cup racer but with a cobbled together as cheaply as possible 2 litre engine & sold for homolgation purposes so not much in it in the grand scheme of things.


Engine:

Reinforced & bored out block
Larger valves
New camshafts
New, larger pistons
New baffled sump
New tubular exhaust manifold
Oil cooler
Crankshaft borrowed from the diesel engine

Suspension/chassis:
Reinforced subframe
New shocks
New springs
New suspension arms

Drivetrain:
New reinforced gearbox
New driveshafts

Interior and exterior we all know the differences.

Cheaply cobbled together? Not much in it? Come one Paddy!8)

If Renault would make such an upgrade to their current sporty variants we would all be licking the windows. They went as far as they could have gone in 1993 without making it an unviable undertaking. Saying that there is not much in it and that is was cheaply cobbled together is, in my opinion, a speculation.

The fact is that all the above gave the Williams a very different character.

This said, I do share the love with the Clio 16V! It is gorgeous and I really would like to have one.;-)

Fdl76, nice to know that you bought the Portuguese Clio 16V, is it an original cup racer? I'm from Portugal and over there people comment it is not. But in the end, who cares, it must be a hoot to drive=D> Well done! Is it already UK registered?

[Braddaz1]

When you put it that way, the engine has had a lot of work done. I can only relate to my Cosworth, but that would cost thousands to upgrade those components.

[Fdl76]

Hi Gustavo,

What is a cup car??? It is a 16S or 16V car that was modified, shocks, cage, etc... Hernanni Roda entered the cup with a registered modified 16S to cup specs... Everybody has seen pics of the car in the cup with and with out the plate 38 22 CB... What more can I say!!!
and most of cup car were repaired and or reshelled...

http://www.vmotorgarage.com/viatura/clio-16s-coupe-ex-trofeu/

1st owner Roda
2nd owner not named but a pilot from TAP
3rd owner the above link
4th owner Fast classic
5th me


Gustavo, please, if you have pictures of the Clio cup 1993/1994/1995, in Portugal?
fgencarelli76@aol.com

cheers
fred

PS: went for a drive this afternoon in the country side... ballistic!!!!

[Fdl76]

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.276502519712.141496.274142589712&type=

[16v_paddy]

Come on Gustavo, a lot of that is bollocks with added marketing bullshit thrown in :lol:
In terms of production the engines ARE thrown together as cheaply as possible as they were forced to use as much pre-existing stuff as possible, and the other stuff that's supposedly unique is merely things made from the same blank material but with different numbers put into the CNC machine.

The engineers were given a target cubic capacity to meet and to do it as cheap as possible and using as many off the shelf items as possible. They weren't allowed to go with their preferred specification because it would have been too expensive, that spec only happened when Sodemo were building engines for the BTCC. Their F7R's were a completely different spec as they used a shorter throw crank and even bigger bore - NOT cheap and NOT put together with as many pre-existing parts as possible so the complete opposite to the Williams engine which makes cheap & cobbled together a pretty accurate way to describe it I'd say.




Engine:

Reinforced & bored out block - F7P block is the basis and all they did was add bits of sand to the casting to move the wall of the block out a little bit to give room to accommodate the throw of the diesel crank because it would foul the inside of the block & bored that to a different size

Larger valves - Just inlet valves 1mm bigger & again just a different number punched into whatever machined them ie: don't machine as much material off and machine a little bit more off to cut the valve seat in the head

New camshafts - Revised F7P items to suit the different bore & stroke

New, larger pistons - 0.7mm

New baffled sump - They're not baffled, the P & R's have a slightly different shaped bit of plastic that goes around the oil pump pickup that's it

New tubular exhaust manifold - A flimsy piece of crap that's only fit for the bin, a standard valver manifold is actually an upgrade :lol: Hillpower was doing that to F7R's back in the day with proven results :winkey:

Oil cooler - That'll be the exact same oil cooler that's on the Ph1 Valver

Crankshaft borrowed from the diesel engine

Suspension/chassis:
Reinforced subframe
New shocks - Only to reduce the camber and be a bit softer than on the Cup racer as it's a road car & customers wouldn't like the tyre wear from that
New springs
New suspension arms - R19 items as is the anti-roll bar - AKA Cup racer items. The R19 & Willy arms are actually different but it's only 1 of the holes for the ball joint bolts being drilled in a slightly different position to reduce the castor

Drivetrain:
New reinforced gearbox - I'll give you that, a genuine upgrade but not so special when you consider that it was also for the Megane which was under development at the same time
New driveshafts

Interior and exterior we all know the differences. Small styling differences for marketing purposes to make it look different from the Valver which is virtually identical. Different cloth pattern on what are normal Valver seats, blue carpet and a different coloured background for the dials

Cheaply cobbled together? Not much in it? Come one Paddy!8) It was a rush job to get 400 of them produced as cheaply and as quickly as possible so they were allowed to use the same dimensions in the rally cars and stay competitive

If Renault would make such an upgrade to their current sporty variants we would all be licking the windows.
They do to an extent and they all fall under a different brand which is Renaultsport

They went as far as they could have gone in 1993 without making it an unviable undertaking.
They only did that with the Rally cars NOT the road cars which is what this whole discussion is about

Saying that there is not much in it and that is was cheaply cobbled together is, in my opinion, a speculation.
Saying that just means that I can see through the clever marketing & say it like it really is. The Williams is based almost entirely on the Cup car but with a 2 litre engine making the same power which Renault had a very small budget & timeframe in which to produce it. Once produced it formed the basis of the rally car which was then modified to the eyeballs to go rallying.
There really is not much in it between the 16v & Williams, admittedly the Williams is a little bit better but in no way is it as big a difference as many people make out, which is why I was bitterly disappointed when I got to drive a Williams for the 1st time

The fact is that all the above gave the Williams a very different character.

This said, I do share the love with the Clio 16V! It is gorgeous and I really would like to have one.;-)

Fdl76, nice to know that you bought the Portuguese Clio 16V, is it an original cup racer? I'm from Portugal and over there people comment it is not. But in the end, who cares, it must be a hoot to drive=D> Well done! Is it already UK registered?

Original Cup Racer is a bit of a grey area tbh. They were all built & started life as normal 1.8 16v road cars apart from the engines being blueprinted to make sure everybody had the exact same thing to keep competition even & fair. No idea if they had the Cup ecu fitted or if that was supplied seperately.

For the UK series, the 1st bunch of cars came off the boat & were parked next to a pile of boxes which had everything in them needed to make them into race cars. Not sure if this applies to the rest of Europe but the Cup Racers predate the normal 16v road cars being available in the UK & are easier to identify, mostly down to the non sunroof shell

[Braddaz1]

Well I think I've made my mind up. If I keep the Cosworth then I'm going to buy a valver as a second toy. If my Cosworth sells then I'll buy the best example of a Williams 1 that I can find. It'll just depend on whether I get any bites on the Cosworth.

[Ayli Carper]

There really is not much in it between the 16v & Williams, admittedly the Williams is a little bit better but in no way is it as big a difference as many people make out, which is why I was bitterly disappointed when I got to drive a Williams for the 1st time


This is such a shame. The thing is, most people on here would be trying it the other way around. As I said, if I was looking for a 205gti, I'd only want to look at 1.6s.

If I was in the market for an old Clio, I'd only be looking at 16vs, or an RSI. I only bought the Williams because it had excellent reviews of its seats and I had a really bad back at the time!

[Fdl76]

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8267&stc=1http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8268&stc=1http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8269&stc=1http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8270&stc=1http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8271&stc=1

[Fdl76]

I can tell you only one thing (as a french man)... get yourself a 16V or a Williams rapidly, because prices will start to shout seriously soon... both models are great fun for so little money... One of my french friend described to me the Clio 16V/Williams as a Swiss knife, she can do it all, track, rally, snow, dry, rain, cold, hot, etc... no excuses for not using it!!!!

[Fdl76]

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8272&stc=1 Took her for a spin yesterday on the dry, mean machine...

[16v_paddy]

If I was in the market for an old Clio, I'd only be looking at 16vs, or an RSI. I only bought the Williams because it had excellent reviews of its seats and I had a really bad back at the time!

Williams & Phase 2 valvers have the same seats and yes they are incredibly comfy. The earlier phase 1 seats really are crap in comparison as I've just remembered now I've started using my J reg this week :lol:

[ianbirch]

Williams & Phase 2 valvers have the same seats and yes they are incredibly comfy. The earlier phase 1 seats really are crap in comparison as I've just remembered now I've started using my J reg this week :lol:

Yep very true paddy....when I bought my first 16v the seat was so bad for my injured back that I bought this...it is still used today and just as good.

Regards Ian

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8273&stc=1

[Gustavo7]

my comments on your comments in a different color for easier reading (good discussion btw)


Come on Gustavo, a lot of that is bollocks with added marketing bullshit thrown in :lol:
In terms of production the engines ARE thrown together as cheaply as possible as they were forced to use as much pre-existing stuff as possible, and the other stuff that's supposedly unique is merely things made from the same blank material but with different numbers put into the CNC machine.

I get your point, but from an engineering point of view, you have to doquite a bit of R&D to come up with those numbers. Valves are easily made wider, but camshafts are a completely different story.

The engineers were given a target cubic capacity to meet and to do it as cheap as possible and using as many off the shelf items as possible. They weren't allowed to go with their preferred specification because it would have been too expensive, that spec only happened when Sodemo were building engines for the BTCC. Their F7R's were a completely different spec as they used a shorter throw crank and even bigger bore - NOT cheap and NOT put together with as many pre-existing parts as possible so the complete opposite to the Williams engine which makes cheap & cobbled together a pretty accurate way to describe it I'd say.

the BTCC engines were of different spec because they could be of different spec. I think you will agree that a larger bore on a road going F7R would mean problem because the headgasket would be too thin between bores. Okay for a race engine which will only run for hours but definitely not a road going car which have to run for years.



Engine:

Reinforced & bored out block - F7P block is the basis and all they did was add bits of sand to the casting to move the wall of the block out a little bit to give room to accommodate the throw of the diesel crank because it would foul the inside of the block & bored that to a different size.
They also integrated reinforcement veins onto the block design to make it stronger, these can be seen on the outside walls. My point is: it's improved and thought of. It all comes down to sand and molten metal in the end because that's how the end result comes to life, but "Just added bit of sand" is a way of understating the thought they put into it.

Larger valves - Just inlet valves 1mm bigger & again just a different number punched into whatever machined them ie: don't machine as much material off and machine a little bit more off to cut the valve seat in the head.
Yes, but would be cheaper to use the F7P valves, just off the shelf, right? :winkey:

New camshafts - Revised F7P items to suit the different bore & stroke
you cannot machine an F7P camshaft into an F7R item due to lobe design and separation angle, can you? Plus it also had to be designed having it's share of R&D as any other cam. Plus these are wilder than the Megane F7R ones.

New, larger pistons - 0.7mm
Plus different piston rings.

New baffled sump - They're not baffled, the P & R's have a slightly different shaped bit of plastic that goes around the oil pump pickup that's it. That's what I meant, plus the sump is deeper, isnt it?

New tubular exhaust manifold - A flimsy piece of crap that's only fit for the bin, a standard valver manifold is actually an upgrade :lol: Hillpower was doing that to F7R's back in the day with proven results :winkey:
The cast iron manifold is a stronger piece I agree, but very heavy. The tubular Williams manifold reduces weight and was designed to optimise the low end torque delivery nature of the F7R engine, does not surprise me if modyfied (probably higher-revving) engines will benefit from the cast iron manifold. Have anyone fitted an F7P manifold onto a standard williams? Were the results positive or negative?

Oil cooler - That'll be the exact same oil cooler that's on the Ph1 Valver. My bad then, thought the Valver didn't have one!

Crankshaft borrowed from the diesel engine

Suspension/chassis:
Reinforced subframe
New shocks - Only to reduce the camber and be a bit softer than on the Cup racer as it's a road car & customers wouldn't like the tyre wear from that
New springs
New suspension arms - R19 items as is the anti-roll bar - AKA Cup racer items. The R19 & Willy arms are actually different but it's only 1 of the holes for the ball joint bolts being drilled in a slightly different position to reduce the castor

Drivetrain:
New reinforced gearbox - I'll give you that, a genuine upgrade but not so special when you consider that it was also for the Megane which was under development at the same time
New driveshafts

Interior and exterior we all know the differences. Small styling differences for marketing purposes to make it look different from the Valver which is virtually identical. Different cloth pattern on what are normal Valver seats, blue carpet and a different coloured background for the dials. Don't quote me on this but I had my Williams paint thickness measure at 200microns, was told by a person who worked for the automotive industry many years ago as a paint speciliast that the normal would be 70 microns. 200 microns would only be seen on high end cars like ferraris. Now, might be the case that my Wiliams had a paint job but would be intesting to have other cars Paint thickness measured to understand if Renault gave it a high quality paint job or not. (if yes, only W1 maybe?)

[Fdl76]

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8281&stc=1

[16v_paddy]

my comments on your comments in a different color for easier reading (good discussion btw)

I'll try & do the same but this might get complicated, at least I'm not trying this on a phone instead of a PC :lol:

They also integrated reinforcement veins onto the block design to make it stronger, these can be seen on the outside walls. My point is: it's improved and thought of. It all comes down to sand and molten metal in the end because that's how the end result comes to life, but "Just added bit of sand" is a way of understating the thought they put into it.

The veins are for reinforcement but that was because they weakened the block on the inside by making the wall thinner to make room for the crank. So to say it is an improvement is incorrect, it's actually a fix to a problem that they created and a fix they had to as cheaply & as quickly as possible, so a little bit of alteration to the casting moulds was the best compromise.
You don't see the veins on the later F7R's found in the Megane as that was a properly developed engine which Renault were able to take their time with as they weren't in a rush to get it into production for homologation purposes.

you cannot machine an F7P camshaft into an F7R item due to lobe design and separation angle, can you? Plus it also had to be designed having it's share of R&D as any other cam. Plus these are wilder than the Megane F7R ones.

My point is that they will be made from blanks of the exact same size and the profiles are only a result of calculations to make optimal use of the cubic capacity, port size & size of valve which is in real terms are either just a little bit bigger than or exactly the same as the F7P. Then it's simply a case of machining the blank to that profile. They didn't have the time or budget to do proper R&D into the cams and the calculations will have been based on the pre-existing ones of the F7P.
The Megane engine needs to be treated as a completely different engine to that of the Williams as it benefitted from proper development, the cams are much much milder than the Williams but it's a much more efficient engine, it's a totally different cylinder head as well.

Larger valves - Just inlet valves 1mm bigger & again just a different number punched into whatever machined them ie: don't machine as much material off and machine a little bit more off to cut the valve seat in the head.
Yes, but would be cheaper to use the F7P valves, just off the shelf, right?

You've missed the point a bit, they used the F7P exhaust valves but based on the calculations they would have done, a 1mm bigger inlet valve was optimal and as they made them all themselves anyway from single pieces of metal, the difference in price is nothing. If anything the bigger valves will have saved them money in less wasted material from machining them :lol:
Cost savings in making valves only happened when the F4 came along as they are made fom 2 seperate pieces that are then friction welded together - which has since been proven to be a weakness as can be seen by how many tuned or high revving F4 engines have dropped a valve & wiped the engine out :lol:

New tubular exhaust manifold - A flimsy piece of crap that's only fit for the bin, a standard valver manifold is actually an upgrade :lol: Hillpower was doing that to F7R's back in the day with proven results :winkey:
The cast iron manifold is a stronger piece I agree, but very heavy. The tubular Williams manifold reduces weight and was designed to optimise the low end torque delivery nature of the F7R engine, does not surprise me if modyfied (probably higher-revving) engines will benefit from the cast iron manifold. Have anyone fitted an F7P manifold onto a standard williams? Were the results positive or negative?

The results were undoubtedly positive & as said above it was Hillpower that was doing it, the F7P manifold is actually optimised for low down torque on the F7P anyway.

Interior and exterior we all know the differences. Small styling differences for marketing purposes to make it look different from the Valver which is virtually identical. Different cloth pattern on what are normal Valver seats, blue carpet and a different coloured background for the dials. Don't quote me on this but I had my Williams paint thickness measure at 200microns, was told by a person who worked for the automotive industry many years ago as a paint speciliast that the normal would be 70 microns. 200 microns would only be seen on high end cars like ferraris. Now, might be the case that my Wiliams had a paint job but would be intesting to have other cars Paint thickness measured to understand if Renault gave it a high quality paint job or not. (if yes, only W1 maybe?)

I highly doubt it tbh. The Williams were built on the same production line as the Valvers which was sepereate to the rest of the Mk1 Clios as the shells are different. The paint on the Williams is the same blue that Renault had been doing for years and is also on the Valvers.
Can you imagine the french guy in the paint shop being told to do extra work on a particular shell that has just rolled in? He'd probably go on strike :lol:

[Ayli Carper]

I can't resist resurrecting this thread. I was watching an old documentary series from 1994 on YouTube (in my opinion the best and funniest documentary ever made) and I came across something I had totally missed or never taken in when I first saw it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjprNONUEfQ

Just look at from 28:10, especially 29:58 and 31:30.

It rather tickles me that this sport blue 16V ('one six vee') with gleaming turbine wheels is the plaything of a loaded son. After twenty three years as rusting rodded clapped out bangers for people running fast cars on the cheap, they're now the playthings of that rich young chap grown up.

[northy]

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=8272&stc=1 Took her for a spin yesterday on the dry, mean machine...

nice to see your looking after it.

How come its ended up on a K reg????

[Ayli Carper]

No 16v up for sale and then two at once:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-Clio-Phs-1-1-8-16v/322859063951?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48787%26meid%3Dc5ed0468914e48b 4954b90cd0866f4ab%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D 6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D253225356482&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1994-RENAULT-CLIO-1-8-16V-F7P-TURBO-CONVERSION-5-GT-TURBO-ROAD-LEGAL-TRACK-CAR/192351327852?_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIM.M BE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D48787%26meid%3Dc1a123cc6807423 dafc5f257b2810aaf%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D 6%26mehot%3Dpp%26sd%3D322859063951&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

Life is just too full of temptation - surely someone on here needs an early Christmas present!