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clowo16v
30-08-2005, 16:47
Can anybody tell me the website of that place that fitted the Eaton supercharger to a Williams?

Looked through all the past posts, and used search and I cant find it.

See ya

Matt

northy
30-08-2005, 16:50
got a picture of it i think somewhere - but thats all.

clowo16v
30-08-2005, 16:54
I'm sure it was on here where I saw the link. I've got a supercharger just need to see what they've done with the inlet manifold. If I remember rightly they just cut it and welding the supercharger straight to it.

See ya

Matt

clowo16v
30-08-2005, 16:58
Found it.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=it_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2flnx.protoxide.it%2fStats_017%2f click.php%3fid%3d1

That looks foooooooookin mental.

See ya

Matt

Lunner
30-08-2005, 22:00
whole new inlet fanifold by the looks of it

Martin
30-08-2005, 22:06
I'd rather have throttle bodies tbh 208 bhp out of supercharger is'nt amazing...

Lunner
30-08-2005, 22:08
Isn't really is it, didn';t read the specs i must admit, if iw as to surcombe to a supercahregr it wudl have to be VERY worth it

clowo16v
30-08-2005, 22:17
Yeh but tb's cost a fortune. I can get a manifold made for about £50 (i'm owed a favour), the supercharger was £25 so i'll just need a remap. Getting the bottom end lightened & balanced for free because my mate works for the best engine builders in the country (EDA), and i'm having an ally plate made up to fit between 2 headgaskets to drop the compression.

The horsepower isn't that impressive, but the torque will go up dramatically, and superchargers sound loads better than tb's lol.

See ya

Matt

Mark_Ritchspeed
30-08-2005, 23:11
Are you using a Cooper S charger?

Jason
31-08-2005, 09:50
Found it.

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=it_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2flnx.protoxide.it%2fStats_017%2f click.php%3fid%3d1

That looks foooooooookin mental.

See ya

Matt

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
That's quite impressive alright

But IMO supercharger or turbo does not suit the car's character.
I'd go with throttle bodies :wink:

stan
31-08-2005, 12:35
wot CR u planning on running? wot does ur charger boost to? reason i ask is u might want to consider chargecooling....

clowo16v
31-08-2005, 14:32
I'm planning on dropping the CR to about 7:1 like on my V6, and run about 7lbs of boost normally when i'm driving on the road.

I've been looking at chargecoolers and I doubt I could fit one in. Wat I thought was mounting a pre-cooler where the battery is. They're not as efficient, but better than nothing. I would also need to fabricate heat shields between the radiator & blower, to try and keep as much heat out as possible.

Jason as I said, throttle bodies cost a fortune, and they don't sound as good lol.

See ya

Matt

Jason
31-08-2005, 15:05
What cost are we dealing whith all in all -no favoures owned :lol: - ?

clowo16v
31-08-2005, 15:31
Less than TB's I would say. All the proper TB kits i've seen have been well over a grand, then you need a remap etc.

See ya

Matt

Winston
31-08-2005, 16:12
Wish you luck..........superchargers are the don

I was going to use a G40 charger on mine as I have a spare.....but lack of funds have halted the project......Plus been told the chargers are shit lol

What charger you using?

You don't have to bolt the M45 charger on to the inlet.....if you can find space for it else where (un likey lol)

http://www.edition38.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=14872

clowo16v
31-08-2005, 17:35
Yeh I've got an M45 same as that. The problem with mounting it anywhere else is getting drive to it. People have said to me I should take of the PAS and put it down there, but there are more negatives to that than bolting bolting it to the inlet manifold.

1) It's gonna get absolutely boiling being sandwiched between the block and the rad, which won't help the power

2) I like PAS lol

3) There would still be no room for an intercooler.

Having had a mess around with supercharger placement, I have decided that i'm going to chop the standard inlet manifold in half. I'll then have an extention fabricated to mount the supercharger. I'm going to make my own bonnet with the 16v vent the full width of the slightly raised area, and 5" high.

I was thinking of ways to intercool it, and was wondering if it would work to encase the inlet manifold runners with a 2nd layer of ally sheet, leaving a 10mm gap. I could then pump water through the gap to cool the runners down. I'm gonna fit methanol injection aswell to cool it as much as possible in the limited space.

See ya

Matt

stan
31-08-2005, 18:31
tbh 7psi wouldnt see much heat input from the charger. unless u are gonna wind the boost up some more, i wouldnt drop CR that low.

the way to charge cool it is to have the cores integrated into the manifold...im developing such an item at the mo for a SC Ariel Atom

dont bother with methanol injection

BenR
01-09-2005, 02:44
7psi is low, the charge temps wont be very high compared to a centrifugal charger as roots dont compess inside the casing, they are postive displacement, hence why most roots types dont run intercoolers or intercooler mesh's between it and the manifold.

7:1 is massively too low, i'd be running around 8.5-9:1.

Dont bother water cooling the manifold, for the effort of building a jacket, plumbing, pump, extra rad you might aswell put an intercooler sandwhich in, and there certainly isnt enough surface area along a runner to transfer heat. However, i am quite the advocate of water injection, works wonders if you use it properly.

clowo16v
01-09-2005, 11:05
I was thinking of running 7:1 so I could fit an overdriven pulley on the blower when i'm racing and run about 15psi of boost. I used water/methanol injection on my V6 with it was in a previour car running 28psi of boost, and never had any problems. The intercoolers weren't the best either due to lack of space.

By intercooler sandwich do you mean fitted between the blower and the manifold?

*Forgot to say, picked my new engine up yesterday. Stripped it and the crank has already been balanced. Flywheel will be lightened today, then the whole reciprocating mass balanced. Should be OK.

I'm not planning on building and fitting the motor till next summer as i'm off to uni in 2 weeks. Just getting everything together first.

See ya

Matt

See ya

Matt

TwisT
01-09-2005, 15:38
id definately go for the supercharger over TB's, good luck in getting it up and running. For the cost you outlined it can only be worth it.

Supercharger will put out way more torque, and has more upgrade potential.

id go this route if i had the know-how.....

BenR
01-09-2005, 20:18
i dont think you'll be able to get 15psi out of the 45 unless you severely restrict it. Its not a very big charger.

And even with 15psi, 7:1 is far too low....infact, its far too low for any amount of boost below 40-45psi.

clowo16v
01-09-2005, 22:32
Ah right. What shall I stick to then about 8.5:1 or 9:1? Wouldn't take much to drop it that far.

My mate is running 18psi from an M45 with no problems, though theres another 30psi coming in from twin turbos so its not quite as bad lol.

Twist the torque boost is hopefully going to be as good as the boost in horsepower. Thats the main reason i'm sticking with the 1.8, the torque should be good enough, and i'll be able to rev it high to get some decent top end power.

See ya

Matt

BenR
02-09-2005, 00:10
45's dont really like being spun above 14,000rpm.

boost pressure is a measurement of restriction and has nothing to do with power or flow.

clowo16v
02-09-2005, 00:55
Isn't 14000rpm 90% overdriven? I got it wrong with my mate its not an M45 I don't think, its off an Aston Martin so will probably be slightly bigger.

I'll see what he says when I next see him, he has an M45 on his escort, so he'll probably know its limits already.

See ya

Matt

BenR
02-09-2005, 02:18
nope, max speed of the M045 (safely) is 14,000rpm......and it'd be a better idea to get a bigger one if you want more.

From what i punch out, you'll net 6.3 lbs of boost, 319cfm, and a drive ratio of 2.05.

You should be able to break 200 if you tune it right.

THe M045 is a small charger.

clowo16v
02-09-2005, 11:56
Ah right. I'll use that to start with then. I can always upgrade it afterwards to something bigger.

By tune it right, do you mean doing the rest of the engine aswell. Bascially all I was going to do to the engine was lightened & balanced bottom end, modified head and a tubular exhaust manifold. I looked at cams but I can't see the benifits, usually with superchargers its best to stick with the standard cams.

See ya

Matt

BenR
02-09-2005, 20:35
By tune i am referring to the actual tuning of the engine, fueling and igniton. Even the people who are supposedly good can be quite crap, only tuning to AFR and doing some crap method with ignition timing.

However you build the engine, pay attention to the combustion chamber to control the burn.

Cams on superchargers are good, not bad, you dont have high exhaust manifold back pressures to screw things up with overlap periods.

Its crap turbo systems that you should run std cams on.

clowo16v
02-09-2005, 21:05
Must be different to V8s then. Blower cams for V8s are very mild, more or less standard cams with a bit of work done on the overlap. I'll have to fit them afterwards as I haven't got enough money for them at the minute.

Who is the best place to use for a re-map? As I doubt a baseline would be available I would guess they would have to start with it running really rich to make sure it doesn't lean out and burn a piston. Obviously there will need to be more fuel added as the revs get higher, but the timing will need to be retarded slightly aswell won't it?

See ya

Matt

BenR
02-09-2005, 22:52
you arent working with exhaust manifold pressures that are as high if not higher than the actual boost pressure, so you arent having to curb flow versal all the time.

I have no idea who you will use to map the std ecu for it, i'd personally just go standalone. And any good tuner wont have to start rich, start with idle and work your way up, no reason at all to run rich or lean. And ignition timing will depend entirely on your EGT's.