Clutch problems

[waynos83]

I am having a nightmare with my beloved willy 2 at the mo!
Driving home from work the other day and the clutch cable snapped for the 3rd time in a year and half (behind the pedal).
I've looked at various threads on here to try and suss up wots going on.
Basically, I'm wondering whether my local mechanic is doing something wrong when fitting a new cable (I wouldn't of thought so cos he seems brilliant!) but the first 2 cables were from fast parts and now he's fitted an original part.
So I test it out today and it was very hard to get into every gear and is making a clicking sound! Is my clutch gone maybe? But it was going into gear fine before it snapped!!

option a look into clutch cable issues or option b new clutch before Xmas!:sad:

The clutch pedal has always been really stiff from day one, is this how they are?

Any advice would be extremely well appreciated.

Thanks

Wayne

[16v_paddy]

New clutch pedal is required by the sounds of it, that clicking noise is the ratchet mechanisn trying to adjust itself. It's only supposed to do that the 1st time you press the pedal after fitting the cable.

http://renaultpartsdirect.co.uk/products/Renault-Clio-Williams-Clutch-Pedal.html

And yes, the pedal is very stiff as normal but you can fit a soft pedal conversion to make it much softer, problem is that the gearbox has to come off to do it and you have to cut a hole in the airbox too

[waynos83]

New clutch pedal is required by the sounds of it, that clicking noise is the ratchet mechanisn trying to adjust itself. It's only supposed to do that the 1st time you press the pedal after fitting the cable.

http://renaultpartsdirect.co.uk/products/Renault-Clio-Williams-Clutch-Pedal.html

And yes, the pedal is very stiff as normal but you can fit a soft pedal conversion to make it much softer, problem is that the gearbox has to come off to do it and you have to cut a hole in the airbox too


Thank you for such a quick reply! I hope this is the case as it's quite a lot cheaper than a new clutch! :-) so do you think that it is the pedal putting stress on the cable, forcing it to snap?

cheer

Wayne

[Coops]

if the pedal isn't ratcheting correctly it can easily over stress the cable, leading it to snap. so i'd do that first but it may still want a clutch to be nice and smooth.

soft pedal doesn't fit with standard airbox so bare that in mind as well

[16v_paddy]

It is putting more stress on the cable as it's constantly trying to tighten the cable and pull the clutch at the same time. It's only supposed to do it the once :winkey:

If you do end up or when you eventually get a new clutch, make sure you fit a new clutch fork pivot bush http://renaultpartsdirect.co.uk/products/Renault-Clio-Williams-Clutch-Fork-Stop-Bush.html as they cause all sorts of hassle when they've worn out & the only way to replace them is taking the box off

[waynos83]

I will def try a new pedal first and take it from there. Thank you again for all your help and taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it! Cheers

Wayne

[Hoppo1979]

I had this issue, snapped a cable, the biting point was very low on the floor, replaced the cable and the biting point was very low, the pedal making a clicking noise every time I pressed it. Next thing, BANG, I thought another cable had gone within 50 miles, but turned out to be the pedal. Had it replaced at Renault, and now the biting point is perfect and no clicking.

I would put money on the pedal mechanism mate as what your describing mirrors what happened to me. What you describe is 100% not a symptom of a clutch going.

[Vandella]

out of curiosity, how much did they charge to fit the new pedal? price including or excluding parts?

[Hoppo1979]

£100 all in. An hours labour, and having read how much of a pig they are to do yourself I bit their hand off!

[waynos83]

I had this issue, snapped a cable, the biting point was very low on the floor, replaced the cable and the biting point was very low, the pedal making a clicking noise every time I pressed it. Next thing, BANG, I thought another cable had gone within 50 miles, but turned out to be the pedal. Had it replaced at Renault, and now the biting point is perfect and no clicking.

I would put money on the pedal mechanism mate as what your describing mirrors what happened to me. What you describe is 100% not a symptom of a clutch going.


Thanks mate, I will definitely be pursuing this pedal now and if renault charge around £100 I will be happy to drop it off to them! ;-)

[waynos83]

Hi all,

I have been on the blower to Renault, Cardiff and they are phoning me back for a quite for new pedal and labour.
I don't know of this will help, but I have discovered that everything works fine with the clutch and gear changes, until I've been driving for about 5-10 minutes, once the engine has warmed up!
I am not mechanically minders at all (I'm a primary school teacher!!!) but does this mean that maybe the cable is routed too near the engine and is heating up and stretching or something? :-/

Cheers

Wayne

[waynos83]

Hi all,

I have been on the blower to Renault, Cardiff and they are phoning me back for a quite for new pedal and labour.
I don't know of this will help, but I have discovered that everything works fine with the clutch and gear changes, until I've been driving for about 5-10 minutes, once the engine has warmed up!
I am not mechanically minders at all (I'm a primary school teacher!!!) but does this mean that maybe the cable is routed too near the engine and is heating up and stretching or something? :-/

Cheers

Wayne


PS. I can spell, it's just my frigging predictive text on my phone! ;-)

[waynos83]

I had this issue, snapped a cable, the biting point was very low on the floor, replaced the cable and the biting point was very low, the pedal making a clicking noise every time I pressed it. Next thing, BANG, I thought another cable had gone within 50 miles, but turned out to be the pedal. Had it replaced at Renault, and now the biting point is perfect and no clicking.

I would put money on the pedal mechanism mate as what your describing mirrors what happened to me. What you describe is 100% not a symptom of a clutch going.

Hi Hoppo,

you our seem to know a lot about this clutch cable issue as you've had similar problems.
I've discovered today that the cable works fine until the car warms up. After around 5-10 minutes the gears are extremely hard to select. Do u still think it could be the pedal?

Thanks

wayne

[Hoppo1979]

Hi Hoppo,

you our seem to know a lot about this clutch cable issue as you've had similar problems.
I've discovered today that the cable works fine until the car warms up. After around 5-10 minutes the gears are extremely hard to select. Do u still think it could be the pedal?

Thanks

wayne

Its hard to say, but the clicking noise you describe is Definately a symptom of the ratchet in the pedal. I'm guessing after 5 to 10 mins of driving you've depressed the clutch pedal a few times and the ratchet has readjusted or something.

i would still be pursuing a pedal first. It seems to be an Achilles heel on the car so for £100 its Definately worth swapping.

[16v_paddy]

Deffo the pedal at fault here. I wouldn't quite say it's an achilles heel but it is a part that wears out over time. Get a new one and it'll be good for another 15-20 years of driving :winkey:

[waynos83]

Brilliant, that's good enough for me. It's definitely worth trying before a new clutch anyway. Thanks for your help guys and I will keep you posted when it's done!

Cheers


Wayne

[waynos83]

Renault Cardiff got back to me today... They want £300! What a joke, parts and 2 hours labour! :-(

[waynos83]

Hi all, just thought id let you know what's happening with the willy2. Took to local garage today and they told me that I need a new clutch! I'm goin to forget about it over Christmas then have it done in the new year. I'm expecting around 400-500 quid is that about right?

thanks for all your help and replies

wayne

[16v_paddy]

I'm calling bullshit on that tbh mate.

OK there's still an outside chance that the clutch is knackered but 1,000,000% your clutch pedal is knackered for it to be making that clicking noise and it'll still do it even if you get the clutch replaced

[Hoppo1979]

I'm calling bullshit on that tbh mate.

OK there's still an outside chance that the clutch is knackered but 1,000,000% your clutch pedal is knackered for it to be making that clicking noise and it'll still do it even if you get the clutch replaced


+1 with this. Renaulf Cardiff have tried to have you over on the pedal. The part is about £60 and even at 2 hours labour, main dealers usually apply a 6+ labour rate around £40 an hour. So with VAT that would be around £158. Plus some cowboys into you for a clutch!

step 1 for me would be a pedal. There's a very good guide on here to have a go at it yourself if you're patient and willing to do it. Otherwise I'd be trying another renault dealer. Renault will work to a book time (a book renault issue that gives how long a job should take) and on a clutch pedal it's less than 2 hours. Then ask them for a discounted labour rate as the cars over 6 years old.

Step 2, if that doesn't solve it, buy a clutch from euro car parts (LUK are good, I put one of those in my M3) listed at£100.80 at the moment. You'll be able to find a local garage to fit it for £200ish I'd have thought.

I worked in the retail motor trade for 12 years so I know how dealers operate. Ask the dealer what their labour rate is, plus how long they anticipate the job taking. Anything over 45 an hour plus vat is taking the piss on an old car really.

Good luck mate.

[waynos83]

+1 with this. Renaulf Cardiff have tried to have you over on the pedal. The part is about £60 and even at 2 hours labour, main dealers usually apply a 6+ labour rate around £40 an hour. So with VAT that would be around £158. Plus some cowboys into you for a clutch!

step 1 for me would be a pedal. There's a very good guide on here to have a go at it yourself if you're patient and willing to do it. Otherwise I'd be trying another renault dealer. Renault will work to a book time (a book renault issue that gives how long a job should take) and on a clutch pedal it's less than 2 hours. Then ask them for a discounted labour rate as the cars over 6 years old.

Step 2, if that doesn't solve it, buy a clutch from euro car parts (LUK are good, I put one of those in my M3) listed at£100.80 at the moment. You'll be able to find a local garage to fit it for £200ish I'd have thought.

I worked in the retail motor trade for 12 years so I know how dealers operate. Ask the dealer what their labour rate is, plus how long they anticipate the job taking. Anything over 45 an hour plus vat is taking the piss on an old car really.

Good luck mate.


Thanks both for your advice. Really got me thinking about it now. It's so hard to find an honest garage it seems! Where can I find that guide to fitting the pedal? I've got 2 weeks off for Christmas and might have a crack! Cheers, Wayne

[16v_paddy]

No idea where the guide is - I paid someone to fit mine :oops: but this pic should give you an idea. It's fairly simple to do (in theory) it's just where it is on the car & the contortionism you need to do to get at the bits that makes it a twat :lol:

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq165/16v_paddy/Pedalassembly_zps773b0ced.png

[Hoppo1979]

http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?8614-Clutch-Pedal-replacement

you might have to be a paid member to access it though.

[Hoppo1979]

I've taken to buying a shed load of tools and becoming a hobby mechanic. Buy a Haynes manual, they don't to a Williams specific one but it gives you a good idea. I wouldn't brave doing a clutch though, but I would have attempted the pedal. Only reason I didn't is mine failed at work 20 miles from home in Derby, so I would have had to do it in the car park on my back! Didn't fancy that, plus I have a weak back.

[waynos83]

I've taken to buying a shed load of tools and becoming a hobby mechanic. Buy a Haynes manual, they don't to a Williams specific one but it gives you a good idea. I wouldn't brave doing a clutch though, but I would have attempted the pedal. Only reason I didn't is mine failed at work 20 miles from home in Derby, so I would have had to do it in the car park on my back! Didn't fancy that, plus I have a weak back.

Thanks Hoppo1979,
I wouldn't dare attempt changing a clutch but will def have a go at the pedal. I already have a Haynes manual so will check that out too. I've done lots of small jobs on the car such as disks, brakes, interior stuff etc. and am getting more confident. My brother restores classic VWs as a hobby so is fairly handy and will help. I really appreciate you taking the time to offer help. Merry Christmas! ;-) Wayne

[waynos83]

I've taken to buying a shed load of tools and becoming a hobby mechanic. Buy a Haynes manual, they don't to a Williams specific one but it gives you a good idea. I wouldn't brave doing a clutch though, but I would have attempted the pedal. Only reason I didn't is mine failed at work 20 miles from home in Derby, so I would have had to do it in the car park on my back! Didn't fancy that, plus I have a weak back.

Hey Hoppo,


I finally had the time to have a little look over the willy 2 yesterday to see if I could spot any obvious problems.


Everything seems to be rooted perfectly with a new original cable. So I thought I'd try something I saw on here first. I took the green block away from under clutch pedal and pumped it for a while, then did the same with block in place. Somehow it seems to have resolved the problem!


Maybe my mate just fitted the cable and didn't tighten it?! Fingers crossed that is all the problem was. I'm not holding my breath, of it snaps again it's def the pedal, but it seems great!


Wayne

[16v_paddy]

Now that it's working, a good tip to try is to remove the airbox & get a mate to press the pedal while you measure how far the clutch fork moves. It should be moving 17-21mm. 17mm is the absolute minimum amount of travel needed to disengage the clutch and 21mm is how far a brand new pedal moves it :winkey:

[waynos83]

Hi all.
Just an update on my car. have finally had it fixed today and it turns out that the problem was indeed the clutch pedal. I bought one from Renault and a mate fitted it for me. Works perfectly and even feels lighter.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to help me fix this annoying problem.
All the best, Wayne

[16v_paddy]

Good stuff 8)