View Full Version : Williams suspension
I'm about to change my shocks on my wide valver.
I was thinking to use the std Willy shocks,
but they are not gas shocks, which is very important
considering the bad quality of the Greek streets :?
I'm now leaning towards Ultimate suspension (code ULRENA13)
It's French and not too expensive,
Has anyone tried it :?:
I also have in mind JR (very cheap)
and KW Variant 2 (excellent but too expensive :( )
Please take a min to write down your own experience,
it would be very helpful :D
Don't know much about the non-standard suspensions you mentioned. I think most of the trick suspensions may make it a bit less comfortable than standard configuration.
IMO, if you replace all the rubber bushes and mounts, together with new standard shocks, the Williams can be quite comfortable over uneven surfaces. Some here also recemmened 185/55R15 tyres ove the 195/50s to reduce the harshness.
But if you need something a little harder to tighten the handling, Mark_Ritchspeed here has made-to-order coil springs (custom heights & rates) for the Williams.
I have JR coilovers (on my wide valver).......very stiff ride TBH
Handles just like a go-kart.......depends if, go-kart handlings your thing or not :twisted:
I have JR coilovers (on my wide valver).......very stiff ride TBH
Handles just like a go-kart.......depends if, go-kart handlings your thing or not :twisted:
It IS my thing alright :D :twisted:
Please tell me more about it...
How long do U have it on?
Is it fully adjustable?
Where did you buy it from?
Cost?
Please share any experience, it's means a lot :wink:
Anyone with Avo or Gaz shocks :?:
I got the JR's from Hill Power £320
Only height adjustable
Had them on about 1 year........including new wishbones, ARB
1st at standard height, The car didn't handle as flat as I thought it would (still leaned alot in corners) but much better than my standard valver setup
2nd 60mm at the front/ standard height at the back, The car had loads of back end grip and would understeer (only if pushed very hard)
Now at 60mm+ on the front and 40mm on the back, This has made the car very stiff (and forced me to loose my bucket seats lol)......Handling is awesome tho........If you like no roll all thrills race style suspension
TBH, I wish I had paid the extra for the Avo's, The damping is good on the JR's but it not adjustable :cry:
ThanX for the info Winston :D
The price is realy good
How do U find the quality?
I'm thinking more to set like Jr21414k
or to a fully adjustable coilover
What do you think about Avo's quality,
Has anyone tried them?
Is there an official site fo JR :?:
My old car is runnnig Avo's and they certainly do the job...I bought them for 420 quid. I also have experianced Gaz coilovers on another of my cars...stay clear they are will dint your bonnet due to excessive thread above the strut top!
I'll state the obvious in case nobody has told you or you don't know but williams shocks will not bolt straight onto a 1.8 without fitting the 2ltr wishbones/ARB/shafts
ThanX for the info Winston :D
The price is realy good................Yes...Bargain
How do U find the quality?............. Not bad for the price...you can remove the coilover part from the shock...I'll dig out some photos
I'm thinking more to set like Jr21414k
or to a fully adjustable coilover....... Avo's all day .....Gaz have dinted many a bonnet
What do you think about Avo's quality,
Has anyone tried them?....................Better than the JR's
Is there an official site fo JR :?:........Not with any specs
After a years use on shit english roads...not the best pics lol
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/Willyvalve/Kif_1134.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y209/Willyvalve/Kif_1132.jpg
Im lookin for more :)
My old car is runnnig Avo's and they certainly do the job...I bought them for 420 quid. I also have experianced Gaz coilovers on another of my cars...stay clear they are will dint your bonnet due to excessive thread above the strut top!
Ok this is me been Greek :oops:
quid = pounds?
Gaz are too stiff, so top mounts are worn quikly?
Winston, looking good 8)
Question; you had the subframe painted blue http://www.greekrenaultclub.gr/phpbb/images/smiles/conf40.gif
I'll state the obvious in case nobody has told you or you don't know but williams shocks will not bolt straight onto a 1.8 without fitting the 2ltr wishbones/ARB/shafts
Thanx for the tip, but I already have these installed :wink:
The only prob is that I used megane/R19 ARB which is not the best choice,
cause it's a bit wider between bends and sometimes it hits on the subframe
I'll try to get some pic to show you what I mean :D
Thanx everyone =D>
Thank you :D
I painted the subframe when installing my manaul steering rack
quid = pounds? yes
GAZ ....The top mount thread sits to high and puts dints in the bonnet
Thank you :D
I painted the subframe when installing my manaul steering rack
quid = pounds? yes
GAZ ....The top mount thread sits to high and puts dints in the bonnet
Does your subframe come from a Willy?
They're suposed to be better-stronger
manaul steering rack :?:
GAZ... that's ridiculous. I'd be prised if that happened to me :evil:
I'll state the obvious in case nobody has told you or you don't know but williams shocks will not bolt straight onto a 1.8 without fitting the 2ltr wishbones/ARB/shafts
Thanx for the tip, but I already have these installed :wink:
The only prob is that I used megane/R19 ARB which is not the best choice,
cause it's a bit wider between bends and sometimes it hits on the subframe
I'll try to get some pic to show you what I mean :D
Which R19/Megane model did you get the ARB from? From what I know the R19 16v ARB is the same as a williams one, as is the phase 1 lesser-spec meganes. Its the non-16v R19 ARBs and 16v/cabrio megane ARBs that are different
Thank you :D
I painted the subframe when installing my manaul steering rack
quid = pounds? yes
GAZ ....The top mount thread sits to high and puts dints in the bonnet
Does your subframe come from a Willy?
They're suposed to be better-stronger
manaul steering rack :?:
GAZ... that's ridiculous. I'd be prised if that happened to me :evil:
I have removed the Power steering and down graded to a lower spec clio manual rack
A Williams subframe is double skinned....I have used a Valver subframe because its lighter lol
Which R19/Megane model did you get the ARB from? From what I know the R19 16v ARB is the same as a williams one, as is the phase 1 lesser-spec meganes. Its the non-16v R19 ARBs and 16v/cabrio megane ARBs that are different
I wouldn't know the model exactly
cos I got it from a used parts yard :oops:
Aparently the "A" length is longer in the R19/megane
.............driver............
........_________..........
____/................\_____
.............front...............
.......|<----A---->|........
that has as a result to hit on one of the screws of the subframe :?
Winston how does the parking procedure feel like :P
Winston how does the parking procedure feel like :P
Heavy!!!!!!!.....But I need the work out (cheaper than the gym) :P
Wise thinking :lol: :lol: :lol:
It seems that the Avos are a good VfM
but they give a massive drop (-50mm)
that i don't quite like :?
i have the AVOs on mine...have had them fitted for the last 2 years or so.
never had any probs really after id set them up to my liking.
they corner as flat as u like, hardly any body roll, but still retain quite a lot of comfort, turn in is sharper, sweeping bends feel more stable at higher speeds, car feels a lot more progressive when its letting go.
only real downside is mine has a slight tendancy to under steer, which will be sorted once i get the car to myself, n not having to cart the mrs n kids etc evrywhere in it, then i can go low at the back too hehe
That sounds good, but I'm still kind of scared of the greek roads... :?
How low are you running?
I've also read that you'runnig with 2.0 cams on a 1.8 head,
or so :roll:
Could you pm me with some details :oops:
ThanX :wink:
about 10-15 mm lower on the front, std height at rear
the beauty of the coilovers is that u run at whatever height u want..i could go about another 60 mil probs..or raise it another 40..choice is urs at the turn of the platform
about 10-15 mm lower on the front, std height at rear
the beauty of the coilovers is that u run at whatever height u want..i could go about another 60 mil probs..or raise it another 40..choice is urs at the turn of the platform
Ok you've got my attention :-k
I thought that, there is a drop of 50mm to begin with...
Meaning that the overall lenght is shorter by a few mm :?
You can actually keep the original hight :?: :?: :?:
Also could you explain this for me;
"the kits use Grade A race spec 2.25 l/D coil springs and are complete with dust covers...."
Is this (2.25 l/D) refering to the springs stiffnes, like lbs?
upto a 50mm drop.......iirc you can run them higher than standard.....I can on mine
The JR's are upto 80mm :shock:
thatl probably be the Intrenal Diamater of the springs mate.
meaning that for £20 or woteva, a set of 2.25 ID springs can be had that are stiffer/softer/more progressive, i.e with a twin spring set up, one short soft, one longer stiffer, etc etc etc
options are pretty much endless tbh
mine runs the std springs that came with the kit, car sits so wing is just nice n level with the tyres on the front, with about clearnce for 1 finger
will get a pic n show u tomoro
A helper (softer) spring would be a good addition :wink:
I'll catch up with those pics later
ive had problems with my avo coilovers on my valver, ive had them 2months and both front shocks they have started to leak also put a dent in 1side of the bonnet. rear shock came undone while driving losing nut and sleeve for rear shock bush. now both shocks need to go back to get fixed leaving me with no car till they come back :(
i use to have AVO coilovers on mine, after 3 month a seal in the coilover unit split and pissed all its fluid out but AVO replaced it free of charge, def handle well with them, but i decided to fit std shocks back on but with uprated springs, now have the choice of 165lb or 200lb, both std height, prefer std feel, although the coilovers could be set to very soft, softer then std lol was like a jellyfied williams! :lol:
well just had a bit of a comparison with jesus last night, ok so i know the road well, and jesus doesnt, but i also know that his driving ability is id say on a par with mine, and his car is def faster at the mo, so that shud more than even it out..come to twisties...bye bye jesus.....hehe
coilovers.........there is NO substitute
coilovers.........there is NO substitute
sorry dont agree (constructive arguing lol), i feel that the std suspension renewed with better springs/tyres is more then a capable match, a car being more 'flat' dont mean it will handle better, the williams wasnt regarded as one of best handling hot hatchs for no reason!
besides we like 3 wheel action lol :wink:
hmm.. see the nana vs mark ritchspeed times at TY.......'nuff sed :wink:
Mark_Ritchspeed
05-09-2005, 00:06
For track use definitely. In general, the lower and stiffer the car, the better it will grip. You do have to remember though, that mine is set-up for tarmac rallying and runs no neg camber and a higher ride height to clear bumps and jumps without grounding out. Its also considerably heavier than the Nana. On a bumpy and rutted mountain road the set-up would work in favour of mine.
With some minor mods to bring it more in-line with a track spec, the results will be different.
I have always said though, that the Clio lives and dies by its front end and on that occasion mine died. :cry:
aye mate..but with some minor tweeks...the coilovers could get pretty close to ur set up as well for the bump roads etc......at the turn of a platform and a couple clicks of the adjuster.
fair enough it wont be as forgiving, but i dont think itd be far behind tbh...then u could always change the springs for longer/softer options..at a fraction of the cost
Perhaps if the RenaultSport development team were given a set of coilovers and a Williams, they could improve on the standard ones. IMO though, I don't reckon one individual would be able to make a car handle as well on the road as a manufacturer who did months of development using rather a lot of expertise.
zollo....do u know anyone who works at renault sport ??? if so can we invite them to donnington ?
u mean like AVO did when they developed the kit??
afaik AVO used to be a sister company to DeCarbon.....makers of the original suspension, back in the day, but are no longer it seems.
but fit a set of uprated shox on ur car mate and take it for a blast...i think ul be impressed.
thing is tho zollo...u have to remember the set up the car came with as standard isnt necessarily the BEST set up....its the BEST COMPROMISE for a wide market of prospective buyers.
the BEST set up may be too hard for a lot of people, so they go with a compromise between handling/comfort....not the best.
Nope, I was just presuming they'd be a clever bunch. Not actually met any of them.
Doubt you'd get any one of any importance along to a track day. They're a very alof bunch, these manufcaturers :roll:
shame mate - would be good to see there views now.
I just look at all these race teams struggling to get the optimum set up on track, spending months of winter development to try for a perfectly balanced car and still not getting it.
And I read about all these after market tuning houses modifying road cars and fitting uprated suspension, and they never seem to get very good reviews, road testers alwasy complaining that it's lost the sweetness of the original. Hell, even when manufacturers uprate stuff it sometimes goes too far. Porsche have been known to sometimes go too far.
I also look back to when I bought various suspension upgrades for my 205. Decarbon struts, Avo struts, and finally coilovers were all tried. And none IMO gave the perfect set up for the road. Lost the cars original handling balance. Flatter cornering sure, but that's not the be-all-and-end-all.
And I've been in other cars that have uprated suspension too, with the owners complaining that it hasn't done the handling any favours.
shame mate - would be good to see there views now.
Would there be someone at the Renault World Series thing this weekend mate? May be a RenaultSport stand in the paddock or something? Usually someone at these things to chat to...
think so....ive asked if i can have my car on display with them....make sure u ring me if your going buddy.
Won't be able to make it unfortunately mate....track day at Castle Combe on Saturday :D . Working Sunday :(
class...picture mate pictures.
think so....ive asked if i can have my car on display with them....make sure u ring me if your going buddy.
good to see u thinkin bout the club n gettin a CLUB stand :wink:
think so....ive asked if i can have my car on display with them....make sure u ring me if your going buddy.
good to see u thinkin bout the club n gettin a CLUB stand :wink:
lol...tell me about it.
Didnt know there was club stand avaliablity.
I will take the banner with me just incase.
i will find the organisers and ask for next year....bit late now and there are only a few from the n/w plus jan going.
true mate(zollo), but iv also been in cars that could get wasted on the straights by the same make of car, and absolutely muller the faster car in the twisties. im thinkin back here to the old fords, me mate had a rst n another mate had a 1.3, the rst all std the 1.3 fully adj evrything and well set up. std vs aftermarket. aftermarket panned the std. then theres the minis, iv had slower minis than a lot of me mates, but the way i had mine set up panned em round the twisties.
now im not saying that evryone shud go out n buy coilovers, aftermarket kits for their cars cos some of em are shite, but the ride on mine is no harsher than the original set up, as witnessed and commented on by a few ppl, but holds it flatter round the corners, feeling a lot more stable, and not transferring the weight as much, granted mine would benefit from a proper corner weight n set up session, but for me at the moment it handles like a dream, maybe a little too much understeer evry now n then, but thats easily sorted and its not too bad, and i find i can take some corners at 10-15 mph quicker now, mainly because im not scared of takin the mirrors off on the tarmac any more lol
think u should get on the next trackday 2live....ive witnessed zollo's driving and hats off to the both of u...would be nice to compair.
if not - fancy lending me the coilovers for a review :wink:
think u should get on the next trackday 2live....ive witnessed zollo's driving and hats off to the both of u...would be nice to compair.
if not - fancy lending me the coilovers for a review :wink:
lol...why would i want to do that??
get ur own :wink:
u pay il play on the track mate lol........needs money spending on it elsewhere rather than thrashin it at the mo lol
I went to 2 lives on Saturday for a play with Slither in 2 lives car and Wayne in mine. I always thought his setup was fantastic, but thought standard would be better... well i'm changing my mind again... there's a fantastic up hill run at 2 lives you can do and it's about 10 sweeping 'S' bends that are pretty fast 2nd or slow 3rd gear corners... well I got left, 2 live knows the roads better granted, but I have been through them before driving mine and his car and AVO coilovers are better than std. It will depend on how they are setup also, but better damping, less shock and spring rebound and just the same amount if not more adjustment on the limit.
Speed difference on corners? 2 live's testicals, yesterday :wink:
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y204/Zollo/fs-balls.jpg
lol, i wouldn't say i'm lacking in balls, ask 2 live about my class over taking move on the uphill 'S' bend ;) hehe
FlamingMonkey
05-09-2005, 12:07
lol, i wouldn't say i'm lacking in balls, ask 2 live about my class over taking move on the uphill 'S' bend ;) hehe
Yep I can vouch for Jesus he is a loon 8-[
whats all this jon - slithers on a meet ?
yeah, sorta, lads night in at Jon's, so he was on the beer... hence the lesser spotted valver wasn't there... ;)
and Rob, this was just plain crazy... I just followed Peaks run style... plenty of room tho, ask Jon and Matt... ;) hehe
Swervin_Mervin
05-09-2005, 15:30
Standard set up is pretty good I reckon. :wink: Even on valver.
yeah there was loadsa room lol
honest..must admit tho. i nearly dint see that poor fella puttin his petrol in lol
PMSL, yeah I knew and I went wide, I was hoping my wide line behind you might have given a hint, but you made it round on all 4 wheels and that's what counts... I only needed 3 though... maybe std is better? ;) hehe
lol.less wheels on the floor...less contact area....less grip.....hehe
more turn in tho, less understeer ;)
times from TY? would this be mark who spent more time sidewards then actually facing the way the track went!!! and martins old banana which has more power to! times are inconclusive :wink:
did u read mine lol but as i said better springs/tyres and new std shocks etc will be more then capable, i dont mean 10yead old+ std vs brand new coilovers lol!
well the times are all pretty close tbh....and i dont think the power comes into it as much on such a small corner orientated track
Swervin_Mervin
05-09-2005, 22:08
Neither does the suspension that much IMO. My valver kept with and beat most of the williams'at Haynes. Wide track schmide track. :P :wink:
I'd say tyres counts more than people think.
To paraphrase a wise (old) man, "a car lives and dies by its tyres".
To paraphrase a wise (old) man, "a car lives and dies by its tyres".
certainly does....mine is tramlining like a rabbit on my semi slicks now.
yep.....but when comparing same makes of tyres on same cars, but with diff susp set ups.......then the diff shows......
a car lives and dies by its tyres....never a truer sentance.......so why would u want to minimise the amount of tyres touching the floor?? hehe
I'd say that the standard suspension keeps the tyres (that matter) in contact with the road more often than stiffer stuff. The standard suspension absorbs the bumps and doesn't get upset with bad road surfaces, while the stiffer stuff is bumping around, the wheels continiously getting deflected by bumps and pattering up and down.
It's just a case of fine tuning until the perfect balance of body roll and good COG with compliancy and bump absorbtion is met. Which is where the standard stuff comes in :D :wink:
but like richy has already stated mate......the AVOs can be set a lot softer than the std set up.......at the turn of a knob
then can be set up to how the driver prefers the car to handle more or less at will
the coilovers arent a compromise between std and race set ups...they encompass both set ups within their adjustability and do it so well :wink:
Aaaaaaaah yes, but do you know how to set them up perfectly for each application?
The standard stuff is a big compromise. But it's a compromise decided by Renaultsport rally bods.
The coilovers are designed so you don't have to compromise. But it relies on comeone as skilled as the Renaultsport guys and a lot of time to test and developed.
no mate i dont know how to set them up perfectly for each application. and as you know its quite an art. of which im no master.
but.
i know how i like my cars to handle, to suit my driving style, and tbh.....the std set up just didnt cut it.
the standard stuff is a massive compromise, between comfort/handling....and price. as with most things.
the coilovers are built to cater for a wide variety of needs, whether it be stiffening the back up for good launches, softening the whole car for really bumpy surfaces, highering/lowering the cars stance at the front for diff conditions etc.
but then....if the standard set up was so perfect....how come the rally/race clios used coilovers? a std susp set up wouldnt touch em over the stages etc......and for height adjustability, like mark needs for the rallying, i dont think the coilovers can be beaten tbh. and those that wanna go low...dare u go as low as the coilovers will let ya?? lol
the choice is yours...but imo the coilovers offer a more adjustable, safer,better handling ride than the std set up
Definately agreed that coilovers are best for competition use, because you have plenty of much needed adjustment. Also agree that if you don't like the way the Williams handles and don't want the compromises, coilovers are a good bet, particularly as they give infinate adjustment and plenty of options. I just think the standard stuff gives the best compromise for fast road driving.
It's just that people automatically assume coilovers (and any uprated setup) instantly improves a car, when that isn't necessarily true.
Get your arse to a track day so I can have a go in your car and be impressed :P
Question: How about the rear shocks? Any adjustable ones available? Or can I get slightly firmer replacements shocks that will fit?
I have always felt that the rear could be a tiny bit quicker following the front. Nothing too hardcore to ruin the ride though.
lol.....i would be there like a shot mate......but cash needs to go to other places at the mo, like gettin the engine back up to speed instead of the sorry arsed slow shit fukking bollox mobile its become at the moment lol :wink:
the shox at the rear are adjustable on the coilover kit also PS, think they have 20 clicks on the settings....but thats far too hard for the road, think mine are on bout 3 from bottom at the mo.
In order to adjust the rear one must remove them from the car, right?
TBH coilovers demand a lot of time for u to get familiar with setting them up.
But once u do it's heaven :D
You can go on a trackday, a long trip or uphills in a nusty mood :twisted:
using a well tuned coilover.
I think I'll be going for Avos coilover or std height-adj stiffness
Does anyony know about the Bilstein-Renault Sport used on rally cars?
the shox at the rear are adjustable on the coilover kit also PS, think they have 20 clicks on the settings....but thats far too hard for the road, think mine are on bout 3 from bottom at the mo.
Sounds good to me. Hope I can just buy the rear shocks only - as the front coilover will be wasted on me. 2live, any website or email I can shoot an enquiry to? Thanks.
the rears are adjustable on car mate....
at the time i was looking for mine, there were only 2 makes on the market i could find/trust the quality of....1 was leda, the other was avo....but i couldnt justify the grand it cost for the leda set up at the time.
loads of makes were available for the valver.....but only these 2 catered for the williams
How do you adjust them?
Is there an external valve or so?
There is also th KW variant 2, but it's of budget for me
More or less 900 quid :?
Failing that, it could just be knackered bushes or bearings or tired shocks? May be worth inspecting before spending out on new shocks.
yes they have an external adjuster knob mate....dont even need to take the wheels off, or jack the car up :wink:
Failing that, it could just be knackered bushes or bearings or tired shocks? May be worth inspecting before spending out on new shocks.
Yeah, will be replacing most of the rear bits soon anyway. So will be good time to try some adjustable rear shocks. Still want the rear to slide, of course, but just want it recover faster on quick left-right flicks. Never too happy with them from day one. Think slightly harder damping might help (but with my luck, you never know).
yes they have an external adjuster knob mate....dont even need to take the wheels off, or jack the car up :wink:
OOhhh boy...
I'm going to have serious expences :lol: :lol: :lol:
That's 400 quid right :?
Could the rear shocks be the same as the non coilover-set ones :?:
VIPERONE
06-09-2005, 14:15
at the end of the day if i could adjust my balls to be bigger i would corner faster...the majority of us bar 2live and ritchspeed will never push our cars to the limit
at the end of the day if i could adjust my balls to be bigger i would corner faster...the majority of us bar 2live and ritchspeed will never push our cars to the limit
youve never been on one of our trackdays have you ! :twisted:
Swervin_Mervin
06-09-2005, 14:27
I was just thinking that. I think people were pushing pretty close to the limits at Haynes. Especially Monkey, again.
VIPERONE
06-09-2005, 14:28
lol.. i forgot to mention northrop brothers, martin, winston
ZOLLO was my man of the match with u mike @ haynes.
ZOLLO was my man of the match with u mike @ haynes.
Just a pity I can't drive as fast as it actually looks :P
FlamingMonkey
06-09-2005, 16:33
I was just thinking that. I think people were pushing pretty close to the limits at Haynes. Especially Monkey, again.
heheh it ain't a track day unless I spin 4 out of 4 days so far :P
The banana looked well planted on Coilovers, could deffo see the difference to everyone else.
Didn't really notice 2lives at Oulton too busy enjoying myself.
After driving 2lives his motor a while back, it did feel a lot more solid than mine with his coilovers.
tbh i didnt see many clios on track at oulton. lapped the 182 a couple times, passed danny a couple times, but hardly saw anyone else......oh passed northy too....but he was in the kitty litter so doesnt count lmao
the shox at the rear are adjustable on the coilover kit also PS, think they have 20 clicks on the settings....but thats far too hard for the road, think mine are on bout 3 from bottom at the mo.
Sounds good to me. Hope I can just buy the rear shocks only - as the front coilover will be wasted on me. 2live, any website or email I can shoot an enquiry to? Thanks.
jus for u PS hehe :wink:
http://www.avouk.com/pm/89
but then....if the standard set up was so perfect....how come the rally/race clios used coilovers? a std susp set up wouldnt touch em over the stages etc......and for height adjustability, like mark needs for the rallying, i dont think the coilovers can be beaten tbh. and those that wanna go low...dare u go as low as the coilovers will let ya?? lol
proberly because they needed to adjust it for each stage/track, every road is different, different levels of grip, different angles etc etc etc
me personaly i use to run my AVO's with about 10-11 clicks at back and half a turn off rock hard on the front lol was def fun and could be set softer then std but i just prefer the std suspension myself, nd imo some tweeking with different rate springs and better tyres as i said earlier(aka eagle f1 not ditch finder 2005)!!! i dont think i need them personally, the tweeked std is more then capable for me! only time i had grip problems was when it rained and i started to understeer a tad at TY, i cant wait to try out my 200lb springs over the 165lb i ran at TY, ok will be at donington but still gives me chance to see if they help car or not, hopfully they will
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.