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Hoppo1979
03-09-2013, 19:36
Had the car looked at by a very reputable wheel alignment place as the drivers side front wheel is running too much negative camber. Plus 3 new wheel bearings and 4 new tyres I thought it would be prudent.

guys rang me to say the camber isn't adjustable, so I'm now searching as to why this wheel is the way it is.

its had a new bearing, nothing obviously bent, the only thing on that side is the shocker top bearing has play so I'm having that sorted on Monday. The guys asking me to buy eccentric bolts so he can adjust camber but I'd rather get to the source of he issue than mod it out. Anyone else experienced this?

dave17
03-09-2013, 19:58
Does the side that has the Camber look lower or measure lower than the opposite?

Hoppo1979
03-09-2013, 20:25
Does the side that has the Camber look lower or measure lower than the opposite?

Yes it does, by about 5mm.

Hoppo1979
03-09-2013, 20:39
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/Hoppo1979/image_zpsb1a55a33.jpg (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/Hoppo1979/media/image_zpsb1a55a33.jpg.html)

Hoppo1979
03-09-2013, 20:39
That pic off the eBay ad makes it look extreme but you can clearly see its an issue.

jamiecrookston83
03-09-2013, 22:07
Is the car lowered? Should it not have camber bolts? Was the alignment checked on a hunter hawkeye?

Hoppo1979
04-09-2013, 07:31
Is the car lowered? Should it not have camber bolts? Was the alignment checked on a hunter hawkeye?

Hi Jamie, no camber bolts, I've just ordered 2 Eibach ones. Not sure what kit mate but they are renowned as the best in my area and talking to the guys they seemed clued up.

jamiecrookston83
04-09-2013, 07:54
Cool. I had the same problem on my 172 and it was down to not having eibach camber bolts on. Sorted the car car out afterwards

northy
04-09-2013, 10:25
standard - the Williams isnt adjustable for camber.

You can fit lowering springs to a standard strut with no camber bolts.

What could of happened to cause 'excessive camber' someone could have fitted a valver strut onto the car.

Can you upload the tracking sheet so i can see what results you have

Hoppo1979
04-09-2013, 12:56
standard - the Williams isnt adjustable for camber.

You can fit lowering springs to a standard strut with no camber bolts.

What could of happened to cause 'excessive camber' someone could have fitted a valver strut onto the car.

Can you upload the tracking sheet so i can see what results you have

Hi Mate, I dont have a printout as once the guy checked the camber and found its not adjustable, and the track rods ends are seized he recommended I go away, get the strut top replaced, free off the track rod ends and then re-book it. He didnt want to charge me for half a job, but I think he checked some other measurements as he told me toe-in was 2mm out on the front.

Ive not picked it up yet, im going in the morning. Is a valver strut different to a Williams, I know the bottom arms are off a 19 16v?

Vandella
04-09-2013, 13:39
the bottom arms are kind of off a 19.. the 19 will give you more caster than the willy ones.. the front wheels will want to snap back to center more after turning if u have the 19 ones on.., yes the strut is different as the willy one will compensate for the wider track.. if everything is as it should be (correct parts for the williams).. you shouldnt need camber bolts to correct anything.. if then its still out, then the problem delves deeper..

northy
04-09-2013, 13:46
Haha

Well if the bottom arms are off a R19 - then that will be giving you more caster than a williams.

Yes a valver strut is different to a williams.

You need to determin what parts your running and take it from there?

Struts =
Springs =
Wishbones =
Steering rack =

People above are posting on the premiss of you having standard williams.

Hoppo1979
04-09-2013, 14:30
Haha

Well if the bottom arms are off a R19 - then that will be giving you more caster than a williams.

Yes a valver strut is different to a williams.

You need to determin what parts your running and take it from there?

Struts =
Springs =
Wishbones =
Steering rack =

People above are posting on the premiss of you having standard williams.

This is the problem mate, not knowing what the previous owners have fitted. So any pointers to determine the difference between a Willy Strut and a Valver strut? Both springs look the same with white paint blobs on them. I will check both wishbones to see if they look the same. Steering rack may be a bit more difficult. I need to have a poke around it and I will report back.

northy
04-09-2013, 15:47
Two white dots is williams springs. so thats a known.

The R19 wishbones will give more camber (places the wheel closer to the front bumper) a williams wishbone will have a more central balanced gap eitherside of the tyre. Stick a picture up side on and i can tell u what u have.

You can also take the reinforcing plate off the wishbone ball joint and it should say 'will'

The R19 and Williams anti roll bar are the same. Both should have rubber boots covering the end of the bars where they clamp to the wishbone.

Hoppo1979
07-09-2013, 21:47
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/Hoppo1979/image_zps49e68edd.jpg (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/Hoppo1979/media/image_zps49e68edd.jpg.html)

there you go Northy, shocker top bearings replaced, handles better but still too much camber! Bottom arms both rusty so both original, same with the shockers, springs both match, so I'm baffled! Something must be bent but f8ck knows what!

northy
09-09-2013, 12:46
that wheel caster looks right for a williams. Who said it had R19 wishbones?

Try get hold of another strut - that should fix it

Hoppo1979
09-09-2013, 17:05
that wheel caster looks right for a williams. Who said it had R19 wishbones?

Try get hold of another strut - that should fix it

I was guessing at different wishbones mate. Everything is equally worn, I am trying to work out what could be causing it. I dont think it will be the strut as they both match and any issues there may affect ride height but I cant see it having this effect.

I am trying to look into what might be pushing the bottom of the wheel out and pulling the top in. Does the wishbone bolt to the subframe? Could worn bushes on the wishbone cause it? Could the wheel hub be the issue?

stevie_b
09-09-2013, 18:49
Yes, the struts are different between the two models. When I bought my Williams it had one correct strut on it and one valver one. Whether that was to save costs or just done by mistake I don't know. If you can jack the car up at the front so both sides are off the ground you should be able to see a noticeable difference in droop if you do have different struts on each side.

stevie_b
09-09-2013, 19:12
Sorry, was replying to the last post I saw on page 1 above so was a bit behind the ball!



I am trying to look into what might be pushing the bottom of the wheel out and pulling the top in. Does the wishbone bolt to the subframe? Could worn bushes on the wishbone cause it? Could the wheel hub be the issue?

Yes, wishbone bolts onto subframe with two bolts. You can really locate it wrongly unless your subframe is bent out of shape. I wouldn't have thought the bushes could have enough slack in them to affect the angles even if worn.

Northy, whilst on the subject, do you know whether the 'will' strengthening plates would bolt up to a 19 16v wishbone, or are the boltholes such that they would only line up correctly with a Williams wishbone?

Hoppo1979
09-09-2013, 20:25
Sorry, was replying to the last post I saw on page 1 above so was a bit behind the ball!



Yes, wishbone bolts onto subframe with two bolts. You can really locate it wrongly unless your subframe is bent out of shape. I wouldn't have thought the bushes could have enough slack in them to affect the angles even if worn.

Northy, whilst on the subject, do you know whether the 'will' strengthening plates would bolt up to a 19 16v wishbone, or are the boltholes such that they would only line up correctly with a Williams wishbone?

The wheel alignment guy said the subframe was dented. I'm going to have to poke around and take a gamble. It's not the wheel bearing, its not the shocker top mount, so now its onto bottom arm, hubs, and whatever else. I'll keep you all posted.