Is my car lowered, on the front?

[Hoppo1979]

Ok guys I need some help, see the picture below, is my car lowered on the front?

could someone on standard suspension and 195 50 15 tyres please measure from the ground to the front wheel arch and post the measurement.

reason I ask is my new tyres seem to be catching, I don't want to ignite the tyre size debate but if its lowered ill put it back to standard. Cheers in advance, pic below.

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/Hoppo1979/image_zps03025b09.jpg (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/Hoppo1979/media/image_zps03025b09.jpg.html)

[andreas395]

Yeah looks lower then normal to me mate

[Hoppo1979]

That's what I thought, by about 20mm. Why people feel the need to dick about with one of the best handling hatchbacks ever made is beyond me! Can anyone measure so I know for sure? I work for Pendragon (Evans Halshaw) so I can source OEM parts at cost plus 10% so I'll just buy original springs.

[Daz4567]

It looks like its running too much camber.

[lkcio86]

could someone on standard suspension and 195 50 15 tyres please measure from the ground to the front wheel arch and post the measurement.

Measured mine, from the floor to the wheel arch through the centre of the wheel (if you get what i mean) is a cock hair under 57.5cm i would say 57.3cm (573mm) hope that helps

[Daz4567]

Why people feel the need to dick about with one of the best handling hatchbacks ever made is beyond me!

But you have done the same by running 195 tyres. Cheap man's option. A williams is not a williams unless on 185 rubber. The difference is like light and day.

[jamiecrookston83]

But you have done the same by running 195 tyres. Cheap man's option. A williams is not a williams unless on 185 rubber. The difference is like light and day.

Rubbish. car will feel more planted with the 195 tyres. Difference is night and day i.e 195's are better

[Hoppo1979]

But you have done the same by running 195 tyres. Cheap man's option. A williams is not a williams unless on 185 rubber. The difference is like light and day.

As I bought it with them on I fail to see "how I have done the same". Anyhow, rather than the bun fight on tyre size, if someone would be kind enough to cary out a simple measurement for me it would help no end. A measurement from ground to arch would be great, I can then ascertain how far its been lowered and order standard springs (and dampers as required)

Cheers.

[Hoppo1979]

could someone on standard suspension and 195 50 15 tyres please measure from the ground to the front wheel arch and post the measurement.

Measured mine, from the floor to the wheel arch through the centre of the wheel (if you get what i mean) is a cock hair under 57.5cm i would say 57.3cm (573mm) hope that helps

Awesome, exactly what I needed. When its back from having its gearbox replaced I will compare. Your a gent, thankyou.

[Daz4567]

It is irrelevant what your opinion is on tyres. Just as mine is irrelevant. However, if we are talking about 'altering the car Renault built', which i think you will agree is the topic of conversation from the quote, then we have to put personal opinion to one side.

The fact is that if the premise is not altering the car Renault created, then 185 tyres are a must. The fact that you, erroneously in my opinion, state that 195 tyres are 'more planted' [sic], shows this to be true, by simple logic.

As for being more planted, this is a separate topic. But the whole fun in the williams is that it is not 'more planted'. In fact the grip in the focus and the 200 are way more than the williams. This increases corning speed significantly. However, the point of the williams is that it is a driver's car that is not planted, but adjustable (Evo mag called it a plateau on which to play). The fun in the williams is that it moves about on its tyres and becomes unsettled at lower speeds than other more modern cars. This is the whole essence of the car, something i feel that you have obviously missed, due to your desire to remove this characteristic and replace it with the sterile feel of a more grippy modern car.

Sure, if you like a car that has a crashy ride and a more planted feel, please fit the inferior 195 tyres (and some hard coilovers). If, like toyota with the new GT86 you want a drivers car that is fun, stick with the 185 tyres, one of the defining points of the car.

As for the 185 tyres, Renault fitted them for a particular reason, something that they learnt from rallying. The group a cars ran a 16 inch wheel with an unusually narrow tyre. The reason they did this was to stretch the tyres sidewall and increase the stiffness of the tyre while at the same time improving the damping of the car for the french B roads. Interestingly, renault also fitted an unusual (at the time) wider rim to the williams, and to it mounted a thinner higher sidewalled tyre. Copying the intent of the group a cars, something that works particulalrly well and is known to be a defining characteristic of the car.

But if you know best, please continue to buy your cheap man's tyres.

[Daz4567]

As I bought it with them on I fail to see "how I have done the same". Anyhow, rather than the bun fight on tyre size, if someone would be kind enough to cary out a simple measurement for me it would help no end. A measurement from ground to arch would be great, I can then ascertain how far its been lowered and order standard springs (and dampers as required)

Cheers.

Well the ride height will still be wrong as the 185 tyres give the car a different ride height to the 195 tyres. Obviously you will need 185 tyres as well as springs if as you say, you want the car as renault intended.

[Daz4567]

As I bought it with them on I fail to see "how I have done the same". Anyhow, rather than the bun fight on tyre size, if someone would be kind enough to cary out a simple measurement for me it would help no end. A measurement from ground to arch would be great, I can then ascertain how far its been lowered and order standard springs (and dampers as required)

Cheers.

Why dont you just look at the springs for the white paint, Considering that the measuring of a 20 year old cars ride height by a tape measure to some arbitrary point will be hit and miss, if you want to know if it is standard just look at the springs.

[jamiecrookston83]

It is irrelevant what your opinion is on tyres. Just as mine is irrelevant. However, if we are talking about 'altering the car Renault built', which i think you will agree is the topic of conversation from the quote, then we have to put personal opinion to one side.

The fact is that if the premise is not altering the car Renault created, then 185 tyres are a must. The fact that you, erroneously in my opinion, state that 195 tyres are 'more planted' [sic], shows this to be true, by simple logic.

As for being more planted, this is a separate topic. But the whole fun in the williams is that it is not 'more planted'. In fact the grip in the focus and the 200 are way more than the williams. This increases corning speed significantly. However, the point of the williams is that it is a driver's car that is not planted, but adjustable (Evo mag called it a plateau on which to play). The fun in the williams is that it moves about on its tyres and becomes unsettled at lower speeds than other more modern cars. This is the whole essence of the car, something i feel that you have obviously missed, due to your desire to remove this characteristic and replace it with the sterile feel of a more grippy modern car.

Sure, if you like a car that has a crashy ride and a more planted feel, please fit the inferior 195 tyres (and some hard coilovers). If, like toyota with the new GT86 you want a drivers car that is fun, stick with the 185 tyres, one of the defining points of the car.

As for the 185 tyres, Renault fitted them for a particular reason, something that they learnt from rallying. The group a cars ran a 16 inch wheel with an unusually narrow tyre. The reason they did this was to stretch the tyres sidewall and increase the stiffness of the tyre while at the same time improving the damping of the car for the french B roads. Interestingly, renault also fitted an unusual (at the time) wider rim to the williams, and to it mounted a thinner higher sidewalled tyre. Copying the intent of the group a cars, something that works particulalrly well and is known to be a defining characteristic of the car.

But if you know best, please continue to buy your cheap man's tyres.

Cheap man tyres? and I know best? Merely my opinion on the sublect my friend, that I prefer running 195 tyres on my car and as this a forum where everyones opinons can be clearly aired. How can you come out with my opinion is irrelevant?. Obviously you feel the opposite. Since you have taken the time to rant on the subject clearly you are the one that knows it all....

[Vandella]

Ok guys I need some help, see the picture below, is my car lowered on the front?
reason I ask is my new tyres seem to be catching, I don't want to ignite the tyre size debate but if its lowered ill put it back to standard. Cheers in advance, pic below.

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/cc376/Hoppo1979/image_zps03025b09.jpg (http://s1208.photobucket.com/user/Hoppo1979/media/image_zps03025b09.jpg.html)

this was all he was asking for... not opinions or bitchyness.. put ur handbags away chaps, no need for it!

[jamiecrookston83]

Fair point. I'm not out to start handbags

[Hoppo1979]

Hehe it's like the age old SMG Vs Manual debate on M3cutters when I had my M3 CS. Hours of arguments and at the end of the day its purely people's opinions. Thanks to the poster who carried out the measurement. Just what I needed.

[lkcio86]

No probs hope it helps,

[Hoppo1979]

Well in the interest of closure, checked my springs and they do have two white paint brush marks on them, so I assume they are standard, had the tape measure out and mine seems to measure 56.7 ish cm so I am assuming I am standard.

I have now got a rather annoying clunk when taking power up and braking from the drivers side, so there must be some bushes on their way out somewhere - bottom arm bushes??

[Vandella]

sounds like it.. wishbones.. had this not too long ago from passenger side.. the metal sheething had come loose..

[Hoppo1979]

Just been on Mister Auto website, brand new wishbones complete, £17 each!

[jock]

Just been on Mister Auto website, brand new wishbones complete, £17 each!

Be careful they look like 16v wishbones to me and same part no for both cars (and mounting for roll bar). Williams ones are wider track! :-k

[16v_paddy]

+1 on that, they're deffo valver wishbones

[Vandella]

look on mr auto for Renault 19 wishbones if price is an issue.. rather than the clio ones they offer.. otherwise don't skimp and go to Renault..