engine under performing

[turbominicooper]

hi all,

i picked up my willy1 a few weeks ago and when i was first driving it it was pretty quick through the gears and nice and smooth, by the time i was well into 2nd gear i was at 60mph.

recently it seems to just be under performing, i shift all the way into 2nd and im barely at 40mph.

the car feels likes it bogging up a bit and smells a bit fuel at times.

engine mods are:
-airfilter
-exhaust

ive checked
-rotor arm
-dizzee
-leads
-plugs
-cleaned the airfilter
-replaced temp sensor beneath injectors - possibly put on wrong way round?

when i cleaned the airfilter last week it was bogging and looking at it today its back t being covered in crap again.

this may sound a bit random but there was a few fuses missing from the fuse box so i made sure the right amp fuse was in the alocated slot.
another thing that happened was i knocked the exhaust quite hard on the gate mount at work but the exhaust seemed ok when on the ramp today.

does anyone have any thoughts on this one?

[Wobba]

Which sensor did you change around? Was it the brown one or the white one you need to press to release (single wire I think?) The brown one is knock sensor and the other is oil level, maybe a third oil temperature as well. Won't change much tbh...knock sensor can retard ignition though and reduce performance, but it's a simple piece of kit and rarely goes wrong! Or do you mean the air temp sensor in the inlet manifold?

Bashing the exhaust will unlikely cause such a drop in performance, unless you cracked the manifold. You'll be able to tell by sound and smells of exhaust gases in the cabin.

Does it hit a kind of rev limit and start to bog down?

Could be the coil.

Open the oil cap and check for mayonnaise type substance, and see if the filter has a load of it on it from the camcover pipe which leads back to it.

Other things to check are the fuel lines and fuel filter underneath oin drivers side. If you are running old pipes, a small split will drop pressure and make that smell, plus horrid economy. Check in engine bay for signs of fuel leakage on the drivers side, front of the suspension turret and behind the headlight there.

[turbominicooper]

Which sensor did you change around? Was it the brown one or the white one you need to press to release (single wire I think?) The brown one is knock sensor and the other is oil level, maybe a third oil temperature as well. Won't change much tbh...knock sensor can retard ignition though and reduce performance, but it's a simple piece of kit and rarely goes wrong! Or do you mean the air temp sensor in the inlet manifold?

Bashing the exhaust will unlikely cause such a drop in performance, unless you cracked the manifold. You'll be able to tell by sound and smells of exhaust gases in the cabin.

Does it hit a kind of rev limit and start to bog down?

Could be the coil.

Open the oil cap and check for mayonnaise type substance, and see if the filter has a load of it on it from the camcover pipe which leads back to it.

Other things to check are the fuel lines and fuel filter underneath oin drivers side. If you are running old pipes, a small split will drop pressure and make that smell, plus horrid economy. Check in engine bay for signs of fuel leakage on the drivers side, front of the suspension turret and behind the headlight there.

it was the brown one, the harness had actually broken off so i wired a new one in - the sensor has not been changed itself. u mention about the timing retarding so i could have put the new harness on the wrong way round??

the exhaust sounds ok, theres a bit more popping then usual but could that be the excess fuelling if thats the case with the fuel smell etc?

rev limit is where it normally is, it just feels like its taking longer to hit it.

the coil may be the case cause when i was checking the plugs/leads there was a misfire on the 1st cylinder but after a plug clean and putting all the leads back in the problem seemed to disappear but may have returned after a few miles... ill check tomo

no mayo but i am super paranoid of this being the case - really cant b arsed changing the hg

fuel lines have been changed in the past but may be worth a look at again and ill check the fuel filter.

the only leak which is prob irrelevant is the power steering fluid is always all over the place after a drive

[Danno]

Im no expert but personally I'd put the standard airbox back on, and secondly as stupid as it sounds, are letting the engine get warmed up before you give it some ? I only ask because my old W3 was a different car once it'd warmed up, but when cold was a pile of s**t, and did pretty much what yours is doing now.

[turbominicooper]

Im no expert but personally I'd put the standard airbox back on, and secondly as stupid as it sounds, are letting the engine get warmed up before you give it some ? I only ask because my old W3 was a different car once it'd warmed up, but when cold was a pile of s**t, and did pretty much what yours is doing now.


its irrelevent what airfilter is on it i think cause the ecu should match the air taken in with the right amount of fuel - plus when i first drove it with the airfilter currently fitted it drove awesome.

and of course always warm the engine up first and thats where the problems lie... when its warmed up

quick note though based on what you said the smell of fuel only happens when i try to boot it so it could be the filter needs replacing as its not mathcing the air to fuel ratio or it could be a sensor thats nackered

[turbominicooper]

k so looking at engine today u can see the yellow sensor is held on with chicken wire??
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l263/turbominicooper/F7R/IMG_20130607_133200.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/turbominicooper/media/F7R/IMG_20130607_133200.jpg.html)

out of the 3 main sensors to the block which is which?

Brown one in picture - ?
Yello one in picture?
Brown one at front of block under injectors?

thanks :)

[MatBrown]

Does it still have the cat fitted? Could have broke down when you banged exhaust.

[turbominicooper]

Does it still have the cat fitted? Could have broke down when you banged exhaust.

yes still fitted but plus side is i have a decat pipe so could get round to fitting that asap... good thinking mate ;)

[Wobba]

k so looking at engine today u can see the yellow sensor is held on with chicken wire??
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l263/turbominicooper/F7R/IMG_20130607_133200.jpg (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/turbominicooper/media/F7R/IMG_20130607_133200.jpg.html)

out of the 3 main sensors to the block which is which?

Brown one in picture - ?
Yello one in picture?
Brown one at front of block under injectors?

thanks :)

Brown one in picture: Temperature sender to the dash display.
Yellow one in picture: It is actually white normally. It is the coolant temperature sensor for ECU.
Brown one at front of block under injectors: Knock sensor

Yea, good thinking Mat. Could be due to blocked exhaust.

[turbominicooper]

the brown one in the picture has become more interesting to me cause my temp gauge in the car is constantly on 50 degrees... any ideas there??

[turbominicooper]

just an update to all of this.

have replaced the temp sensor for ecu.
refitted the knock sesnor at front of block
swapped the cat for decat and refitted exhaust gaskets.
currently using injector cleaner
spark plugs are in good condition
sprak on all leads

...still running crap. going to swap the lambda for a new one either tonight or tomorrow

[cliokiz]

Where abouts are you?

[Wobba]

the brown one in the picture has become more interesting to me cause my temp gauge in the car is constantly on 50 degrees... any ideas there??

Is that the LCD display? This sensor does not control that. The LCD one is under the wing mirror on left side.

I know it's easy for me to say as I have all the spare parts to try here, but I would check the map sensor, ECU and the ignition coil by swapping them out...and the pipework for the map sensor too.

Popping from exhaust could signify it has too much retarded ignition, or an ECU fault.

[turbominicooper]

Is that the LCD display? This sensor does not control that. The LCD one is under the wing mirror on left side.

I know it's easy for me to say as I have all the spare parts to try here, but I would check the map sensor, ECU and the ignition coil by swapping them out...and the pipework for the map sensor too.

Popping from exhaust could signify it has too much retarded ignition, or an ECU fault.

hi mate yes the LCD display one, i will have a look under the wing mirror - where does the sensor connect at? behind the door trim i suppose??

yeah it is a bit easy with a ll the parts there and quite a pricey venture for me to start buying them lol. i will do the lambda at some point and then check the timing and map sensor hose - anyone know what the timing should be at 10k revs?

[turbominicooper]

Where abouts are you?

channel islands mate... too far!

[turbominicooper]

update:

changed the lambda sensor last week and have been running super unleaded... still no good.

starting to wander if i have too higher hopes for a 20year old 100k mile engine lol.

things that need to be sorted still:
- alternator belt
- cambelt

symtpons at present:
- bogging intermitently through rev range
- smell of fuel (no leaks or splits in pipes)
- dont know if this is a symptom but sometimes the imobiliser takes ages to register the imob-key and sometimes its instant

any input welcome

[turbominicooper]

symtpons at present:
- bogging intermitently through rev range
- smell of fuel (no leaks or splits in pipes)
- dont know if this is a symptom but sometimes the imobiliser takes ages to register the imob-key and sometimes its instant




- also a lot of popping and rumbles coming from the exhaust

[p4cks]

This sounds very similar to a problem I am having with mine at the moment. I have contributed mine to a leaking rocker cover gasket, so at times the car runs on 3 cylinders which retards the performance somewhat.

[turbominicooper]

This sounds very similar to a problem I am having with mine at the moment. I have contributed mine to a leaking rocker cover gasket, so at times the car runs on 3 cylinders which retards the performance somewhat.

is that:

- you think its the rocker gasket ?
- it was the rocker gasket and all is cured now?

[p4cks]

I think it is the rocker cover gasket leaking that contributes to the misfire, however I can update you once it goes into the garage for this to be fixed.

[turbominicooper]

I think it is the rocker cover gasket leaking that contributes to the misfire, however I can update you once it goes into the garage for this to be fixed.

yeah cool if you could, they might replace it run it then realise its something else.

replacing the coil pack next week to see if its that and wobba has mentioned that retarded ignition/faulty ecu would cause excessive exhaust popping so thats my next route of investigation

[lkcio86]

Hi have you checked there is no leaks around the inlet manifold to head gasket?

[Wobba]

Oil in the spark plug wells can cause a misfire as it can leak onto the spark plug in the combustion chamber.

[Wobba]

Hi have you checked there is no leaks around the inlet manifold to head gasket?

You can check this by running the engine and spraying WD40 or carb cleaner around the inlet gasket and listening for a change in revs.

You can also check for air leaks by blocking the air inlet to the ISCV, which is fed from the air box. The car SHOULD stall at idle. Use the palm of your hand not anything that can be sucked into the engine. If it does not stall listen for air being sucked in from elsewhere.

[turbominicooper]

Hi have you checked there is no leaks around the inlet manifold to head gasket?

yes i tried the cupping of the inlet like wobba said below and it stalled, havent tried it recently so may give it a bash again see if there is any change

[turbominicooper]

is this an ideal rocker cover replacement?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GASKET-ROCKER-COVER-RENAULT-RC3348-BY-BGA-/400411373835?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&fits=Cars+Year%3A1994|Car+Make%3ARenault|Model%3AC lio|Plat_Gen%3AMK+I|Cars+Type%3AWilliams&hash=item5d3a60b10b

[p4cks]

Ideally, you need to use a tube gasket gel, rather than a gasket.

[andreas395]

I used both p4cks put high temp sealent on both sides of the gasket works a treat at stoping the oil leak

[turbominicooper]

I used both p4cks put high temp sealent on both sides of the gasket works a treat at stoping the oil leak

this is what i tend to do also but either or is good :)

[turbominicooper]

PROBLEM FIXED!

ordered down a new coil pack and set of magnecor leads.

fitted the leads whilst at work and car felt awesome on way home, almost didn bother switching out the coil pack but then i saw the state of the 19 yr old 95k+ one and decided was defo worth fitting. car is driving good again.

still going to replace the rocker gasket this weekend to cure the small oil leak but apart from that all is good :)

[andreas395]

All good then mate 8-)

[richard]

Do you no if you have to programme the ecu after fitting a DE cat pipe and what do you do to the sensor in cat?

[richard]

What's the score with fitting DE cat pipe what do I do with the sensor in exhaust

[172lover]

The sensor is in the downpipe...

Nothing to do with cat/decat :)