help with possible fraud

[yano]

Hello,

can this be Clio williams? Or is it 1.8 16V? Can You tell me? Seller states it is williams, but I think there should be williams badge at rear door and blue speedo.
OK - he maybe changed rear door because of some crash, but what about speedo and williams serial number badge? Can You please help me out?

http://auto.bazos.cz/inzerat/24732852/Zavodni-automobil-rally-Renault-Clio-20-williams.php

I have 600 km to go and check myself, so I do not want to waste my time and fuel... I contacted seller by phone and he still states it is williams.
May it be 1.8 with williams engine? Is it close to Williams or are there some important differences between 1.8 and williams other then just engine and badges?

Any help is hugely appreciated!

Thanks!


http://www.bazos.cz/img/1/852/24732852.jpg

http://www.bazos.cz/img/2/852/24732852.jpg

http://www.bazos.cz/img/3/852/24732852.jpg

http://www.bazos.cz/img/4/852/24732852.jpg

http://www.bazos.cz/img/5/852/24732852.jpg

[northy]

its got Valver door cards & valver rear tailgate strip.

Might have a williams engine though

[p4cks]

I would err on the side of caution, especially if all the evidence suggests that it is actually a 16 valver.

[stevie_b]

Hello,
May it be 1.8 with williams engine? Is it close to Williams or are there some important differences between 1.8 and williams other then just engine and badges?



Definitely looks more like a valver than a Williams. There is nothing about that interior that looks like a Williams, but since the Williams-specific interior bits would sell at a premium I suppose that it isn't impossible that those parts which don't improve it for rally use were sold on and 'standard' valver interior parts fitted in their place, which do the same job.

The engine is certainly one of the key differences. You want to check that it is a proper F7R, and not the F7P. If you search on here you will find more detailed descriptions about how to check that, but you are looking at things like the rev limit, colour of the dot on the dipstick, stamping on the block, Siemens ECU model number, etc. which will all give you a pretty good idea about whether it has a Williams F7R engine or the F7P 1764cc engine from the valver. Other bits you should be looking to be present if it is being sold as a Williams are the four branch tubular manifold - the valver ones are big ugly cast iron things that don't get the best torque out of the F7R. The other major difference on a Williams versus a valver is the front track. It is wider on the Williams which means that the wishbones and anti roll bar are different. Check for the mounting between the ARB and the wishbone to determine which set up it has on it. As well as the wishbones and ARB being improved on the Williams it also runs different shock absorbers to the valver as the geometry is different due to the wider track. If you want to save yourself a trip going to view and it doesn't sound like the seller reassures you that all these parts are fitted then get him to take some pictures of the engine and the front wishbones to send you and post them up here and we can probably give you a pretty good idea what's what.

[16v_paddy]

You want a photo of the ID plate, if it's a williams, at number 1 on this pic it'll say C57M or C57D if it's a valver

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s87/udf2_death-wish/Guides/VF1C-VIN.jpg