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scotte666
27-02-2005, 19:25
i think this might need doing on my williams 3 but does any 1 have a diagram on exactly where it needs welding so i can double check it is the bush before welding.....and by welding is it just replacing the bush completly?

big hp
27-02-2005, 19:45
I thought about this but have decided to buy a new column.

IMHO steering is one thing you can't mess about with. For the sake of £160 for the part plus fitting is it worth it?

scotte666
27-02-2005, 19:47
yea but i dont know if this is def the problem??/and how much will fitting cost me as well???according to most people though welding it is fine...so i just assumed it would be ok

Daz
27-02-2005, 20:06
Welding is fine.. it does fix the problem.. to a degree.

There is supposed to be movement, else Renault wouldn't have designed it like that.. but welding it stops it all.. apparently, it can vibrate etc.. at high speeds which isn't that great IMO.

Winston sold his at the right time for me.. so I guess I was lucky. It should be going in the car soon!

big hp
27-02-2005, 20:15
Yeh jammy bugger! Winston said he'd sold his to you in my thread about steering column.

scotte666
27-02-2005, 20:25
doe su remove the bush completely then????i know its unlikely to happen but if the weld were 2 break there surely i have no steering at all???i m trying to check the joint at the mo had a look but do i need to reove the rubber cover to see the bush or does it just slide up???

Daz
27-02-2005, 21:22
doe su remove the bush completely then????i know its unlikely to happen but if the weld were 2 break there surely i have no steering at all???i m trying to check the joint at the mo had a look but do i need to reove the rubber cover to see the bush or does it just slide up???

I'm guessing if the weld broke, you'd have extremely loose steering..

(Going on the science behind welding it, heh.. to stop the movement)

KingStromba
27-02-2005, 22:10
I remeber a guy called crono posting on CS and he made mention of competition car all having welded columns.

Welding the colum doesnt make the steering vibrate. It does give you more feeling of the road throught the wheel though. Mine has been welded for about 1 year and i like it. If the weld breaks there is no dange of the steering failing as the universal joint will just go back to its previous loose state. If you can afford it and want originality fit a new column. If you want a cheap possible performance enhancer, then weld it.

The cup cars may have been welded as the extra stress on the column UV joint from the heavy manual rack would probably have worn stright through the rubber bush.

KingStromba
27-02-2005, 22:17
http://cgi.nickywitts.plus.com/uploads/joint.jpg


When the rubber wears away a gap is left between the upper male and lower female parts, such that the male part rotates within the feamle part before the edges meet and rotation occurs. Weldint just links the upper and lower parts together (as the rubber would) and prevents the unwanted looseness.

scotte666
27-02-2005, 22:56
cheers for that so it shouldnt cost more than 30 quid to get welded up then.does that rubber boot over the top just pull off or u have 2 cut it off
???il have a lok 2moro see whats going on.

KingStromba
27-02-2005, 23:00
Just pull the rubbber boot up and the carpet to one side and get it welded.

scotte666
28-02-2005, 18:18
i had a look at this today. as soon as i turn the wheel the bottom half turns seems like no play in there .garage sayd everything seems fine only thing that us wrong is that the toe in toe out settings r wrong ( dont know by how much) will this cause my problem i dont know what else it could be??

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 18:23
Describe the symptoms.

scotte666
28-02-2005, 18:51
if im going down the motorway and the steering wheel is straight th car goes to the left have to hold it slightly off centre. also when driving normally it feels slightly loose for first 10 degrees or so also feels like the car is being steered by the road. ie going where it wants 2 unless i correct it. it just doenst feel right i dont wanna put my foot down sometimes cos im worried bout what it will do. the garage that serviced it doubled chhecked evrything for me said is fine. tyre place said wheels are all alligned but toes in toe out was wrong. the car was fine a few months ago (although i did hit a kerb quite hard a few months ago)dunno if this would have caused it. its bugguing me now need it back 2 how it was .by the way i have fairly good pirelli p6000's on there all round 185 55 15 i think....

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 20:29
Do the following:

You can check play in rack or colum with this simple test. Get car front wheels on grass. Engine on move the steering wheel very slightly. You should get 1 or 2 degrees of movement in steering wheel before driving wheels move. If this is right grab hold of the driving wheel and turn it like it was steering. The steering wheel should move with the driving wheel. If this is correct you have no rack or column play. If you do have play go to a garage and check the column and the rack and pinion join between rack and column.

If no play in rack / column do the following in the following order:

1. Check tyres for wear. Replace worn tyres with standard size.

2. Check springs are not broken. If broken replace (replace top mounts too).

3. Correct tyre pressures to 32 psi

4. Get wheels laser aligned

5. Get wheels balanced.

6. Check bearings in wheel and track rod ends

7. Check shocks and replace if corroded.

8. Check and replace bushes

9. Get the subframe checked for damage.

scotte666
28-02-2005, 20:45
alright mate i red a post u did a while back bout steering probs that sounded similar to mine.....u said tracking sorted it were both ur wheels well out of line?was the toe in toe out wrong as well???just u said this seemed 2 cure ur prob....im gunna take it to a tyre place 2moro get them 2 check the tyres and do the tracking can just the camber be adjusted??? if this dont help il just give it 2 a trust worthy garage if there is such a thing lol

scotte666
28-02-2005, 20:48
dont think it will be the springs as these were replaced just before i bought it on 56k on 61k now......will get the yre place to check the bearings and balance the wheels as well i think. il let u know what they say 2moro mate hopefully this will sort it

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 20:52
2 mins to check the springs. Might as well.


Yeah the problem with mine was partly tracking (i had to get it done 3 times bfore it was done right, dont be affraid to go back if its not right) andpartyly the SXGT tyres i have on the front. If i was going to drive fast i would deffo replace these tyres as they are very prone to tramline. As im just running the car in they will do until spring.

Deffo get the tracking done (and the wheels balanced too).

scotte666
28-02-2005, 21:05
i have pirelli p6oo's any views on these before i had this problem i got i though thgey were fairly good

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 21:30
Didnt 2live say they cause alot of tramlining?

What tyre yuo got on the back?

If they are different swap them over.

scotte666
28-02-2005, 22:32
they r same all roiund but before this prob i never noticed tramlining

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 22:37
Try some other tyres? Can you borrow some?

Swervin_Mervin
01-03-2005, 11:13
I suspect it's a combination. I got my tracking done not long after buying it and it was waaaay out and it felt like I had more control over the steering after.

Could also be stiff sidewalls? Not sure what the P6000s are like TBH. g/fs beefer has 'em but that wallows and dives too much to tell what the tyres are like!

2 live
01-03-2005, 14:52
the willy 2 i bought off craggy had p600s on......i tried em back to back, on mine with the pilot hxs.the p6000s in 195, hxs in 185.....i think i had em on for about a day before i took em back off..lol.they really are that bad...we have a lot of scars on the road from where they bin layin water mains n gas mains etc.get the pirrellis anywhere near them n ur fightin with it all the time...the michys have a little tramlinin but all well under control.........no major hassle


the pe2s in 195...no more tramlining than the 185 hx s tbh

KingStromba
01-03-2005, 14:54
the willy 2 i bought off craggy had p600s on......i tried em back to back, on mine with the pilot hxs.the p6000s in 195, hxs in 185.....i think i had em on for about a day before i took em back off..lol.they really are that bad...we have a lot of scars on the road from where they bin layin water mains n gas mains etc.get the pirrellis anywhere near them n ur fightin with it all the time...the michys have a little tramlinin but all well under control.........no major hassle


the pe2s in 185...no more tramlining than the 185 hx s tbh

Yeah i agree :wink:

2 live
01-03-2005, 14:55
lol

big hp
01-03-2005, 17:13
Like I've said before 195/50 are for men KS :wink:

But then I have got a valver so get away with it more then if it was a williams. :P

KingStromba
01-03-2005, 17:19
195's are for babies

Swervin_Mervin
01-03-2005, 17:21
The f1s are bad for tramlining. But real men fight the wheel. :wink:

KingStromba
01-03-2005, 17:24
Real men stay at home and have sex with beautiful women, while boys are out fighting the wheel on their ill fitting tyre shod cars. :wink:

big hp
01-03-2005, 20:35
Real women like men with strong arms built up from fighting the wheel of our 195/50 F1 shod chariots :wink: .

2 live
02-03-2005, 10:34
lol......real men??


real men......dont they have the heaviest engine they can find on the smallest rims the y can put on, with no pas??

KingStromba
02-03-2005, 10:47
lol......real men??


real men......dont they have the heaviest engine they can find on the smallest rims the y can put on, with no pas??


No thats farmers, and they drive tractors. :wink:

2 live
02-03-2005, 10:52
lol....fuk off...u seen all the gizmos in tractors now?????

KingStromba
02-03-2005, 10:53
LOL, no i try to stay away from farmers, although not always possible living in Naaaaaaaarich

scotte666
02-03-2005, 18:38
just thought id let people know i took my car for tracking today the guy said it was way out (a tyre place told me it was fine 2 weeks ago) he spent bout 15 mins setting it all up drove it home and seems to have cured my problem. gunna put a few more miles on it though befotre i get 2 happy

KingStromba
02-03-2005, 19:57
Nice one pal :D

big hp
02-03-2005, 21:28
Like I said fella they contradicted themselves 1st time round saying tracking was fine but toe in / out was out, i mean that is bloody tracking. LOL

Name and shame.....

dezmondo
13-03-2005, 13:17
I know the topic of welding the column has been on before but my idea is a little different.

I have a mate who fixes trucks in his spare time and he suggested I try a hard rubber solution which is like thin syrup to start with then, within 48 hours it is hard (how hard depends on the grade you buy!). I think, injecting this into the gap in the rubber would solve the problem and you will still have the anti-vibration thing going on too!

I found this website info too:

http://www.thepaty.plus.com/8v/howto/polymounts.htm

gonna give it a try and will report back :wink: .

Unless someone else has tried and failed, then welding it is!