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KingStromba
21-08-2005, 19:23
This review is available from the daily telegraph motoring section. I though it was a more realistic review than seems to be the norm.



Does the limited-edition, UK-only Clio Renaultsport 182 Trophy really offer the most fun you can have in a hot hatch, as its maker claims? Tony Dron decides

It was a bold mission. At its dedicated factory in Dieppe, Renaultsport set out to create what it said would be "the finest handling, most fun front-wheel-drive hot hatch ever". Based on the successful Renaultsport 182 Cup model, the Trophy is a final shot at producing the ultimate road-going 182 before production of the Clio II comes to an end in September and the new Clio III gets underway.


Raring to go: a larger spoiler, discreet logos and a lower ride height are all that denote the Renaultsport Trophy from its more ordinary 182 brethren

Just 500 right-hand-drive Trophies will be made, all in bright red, with a numbered plaque on the base of the driver's seat to authenticate them. Outside the UK, which remains by far the biggest market for Renaultsport products, a couple of dozen Trophies will go to Swiss drivers and that will be that. There is no plan to sell them anywhere else, not even in France.

The Trophy is distinguished externally from other 182s by its larger rear spoiler, as used on the Clio V6 255, its lowered suspension and discreet Trophy logos on the rear of each sill. Inside, black Recaro Sport Trendline front seats provide excellent lateral support and lower the seating position by a centimetre.

The standard Clio 182 is a quick car anyway so there was no need to alter the 2-litre 179bhp engine or five-speed manual transmission but, thanks no doubt to its lower stance, the Trophy is rated 1mph quicker on top speed - 140mph. The standing-start acceleration is also slightly improved, down from 7.1 seconds to 6.9 seconds for 0-62mph (100kph), which must result from slightly lower weight and improved traction thanks to the suspension changes (both run on the same 16in Michelin Exalto 2 tyres).

Based on a competition set-up, the most interesting aspect of the Trophy's special suspension is the use of lightweight Sachs Race Engineering dampers, which have a remote gas/oil reservoir. This leaves more space inside the damper itself for a thicker and stiffer damper rod but it also enables the ride height to be lowered even more, improving turn-in response and reducing initial understeer.

Equally significant with these dampers is their resistance to overheating, thanks to that remote reservoir. The only snag is that they are said to cost 10 times the price of a normal damper - it's just as well that they should never need to be replaced.

In view of the relative handful of cars to be made, one wonders why Renault chose to invite a small group of British journalists to try the 182 Trophy, and also see the cars being made in the Dieppe factory. Without doubt, all 500 will be snapped up pretty quickly, so I concluded that the company was simply proud of its new baby and wanted to show us what it can do.

At Renaultsport, cars are made in a somewhat old-fashioned way: it looks efficient but these are special cars made in small numbers and there's a great deal more human input than you see in the latest car assembly plants.

Our test drive took us round Normandy and included a long session on the Pont L'Eveque circuit, a pretty but tricky little place packed with tight turns and a main straight on which it was just possible to reach 6,000rpm in third gear (75mph). Here was a chance to test that bold claim to the full and discover whether the 182 Trophy is indeed the finest handling, most fun front-wheel-drive hot hatch of all time.

My first impression was that, yes, it does turn in well, and it is mighty quick round a track like Pont L'Eveque. Equally impressive, you can keep going at maximum effort for as long as you like and the trusty Trophy does not wilt. The brakes did not overheat and neither did those Sachs dampers - they just keep on doing their job.

But the finest handling? That's a big claim. It's certainly safe and the temptation is to enter corners too fast, wind on a lot of lock and apply too much power. The ABS and especially the EBD systems keep the braking totally stable even when used hard while entering a corner. You can abuse it and get away with it. It's quicker, however, to exercise a bit of self-control and avoid twirling the wheel too much once in the corners. When switching left/right through tight S-bends, it is possible to hang the back out a little but it tends to resist swinging its tail around.

In short, it's not like the little Peugeot 205 GTi of old, which was happy to go sideways when the throttle was lifted and thus provided endless controllable entertainment. Renault's 182 Trophy is a quicker car, a much more modern car and perhaps it can argue its corner to claim the finest handling but, no, I can't concede that it is the most fun hot hatch. It's a bit more grown up than that and drivers who appreciate a very fine, high-performance front-wheel-drive chassis, powered by a magnificent twin-cam engine, will revel in it.

On the road, it's punchy and satisfying yet seemingly effortless to drive and the Recaro seats and excellent controls reduce fatigue to a minimum. It cruises easily on the motorway, too. This is a car which should appeal more to the true expert than the boy-racer.

At speed on rural roads, the 182 Trophy takes humps and dips in its stride and it's only at low speeds on the worst surfaces in towns - such as cobbles - that the suspension can seem a little harsh. But that will not trouble the people who will buy this very specialised car, nor should it.

Clio Renaultsport 182 Trophy

Price/availability: from £15,500. On sale in the UK now.

Engine/transmission: 1,998cc in-line four-cylinder, 16-valve, DOHC petrol; 179bhp at 6,500rpm, 147.5lb ft of torque at 5,250rpm. Five-speed manual gearbox, front-wheel drive. Performance: top speed 140mph, 0-62mph in 6.9sec, EU Urban fuel consumption 25.0mpg, CO2 emissions 194g/km.

We like: High-quality components and years of development make this hot hatch convincing: it's exclusive, well-priced and quick.

We don't like: Some might find the ride too firm on poor city roads.

NickFr
21-08-2005, 19:46
Seems a nice package for the money, would it handle better than a Williams is the question, possibly it would, but put Avo or similar coilovers on.....got to be close??

I agree it's a good write up, but I would rather spend 5K on a superb Williams and stick 10K in the bank :wink:

Zollo
21-08-2005, 20:40
That's the second review I've read of the car, and the second time I've read that the brakes withstood continual abuse without fade. Lucky you're not in charge of the Renaultsport development team Stromba :wink: :)

Enid
21-08-2005, 20:42
I had a look at one at my local renault garage the other day, I really like it. If I were looking for a new car then i'd consider it definatly. They put the plaque in a daft place though and it doesn't look very good either, just black plastic.

KingStromba
21-08-2005, 20:46
Just glad he didnt jump on the band wagon and decided to give what looks like an honest opinion.

The write up i read in Performance gti mag is rubbish. They have made no effort to get the pictures of the same car they were reviewing in all shots (some are obviously publicity shots), they failed to understand what a resevoir damper actually does, most of the review was cut and paste press release material from Renault (that i see over and over in different reviews) and the trip to review the car was an all expenses paid trip laid on by Renault (wonder why they liked the car :roll: ).


The level of journalism in this country is heading for the gutter. Instead of proper hard honest journalism, we get info mercials, press release reviews and pish pash lame back scratching of corporations. This style is yet another crap import from the good ol' United States :roll:

Enid
21-08-2005, 21:03
Theres only one way to get a good honest opinion Rob, go to a renault dealer and take one for a blast! I only ever use reviews for anything as a rough guide, your own opinion is the only thing that counts.

NickFr
21-08-2005, 22:15
I would love to have a drive in one, who wouldn't?, why though if it is so good and lets face it Reno have produced some real stunners, are they only producing 500 for the UK and a handfull for the Swiss market. Also not even marketing it in France....seems bizarre....anyone got any theories.....will it end up like the Williams and get re-launched in another limited edition?

KingStromba
21-08-2005, 22:19
They arnt marketing them in France, because the French consumer would realise that its just a 182 for more money with a plaque.

The French arnt stupid like the British.

edde
21-08-2005, 22:24
The car is superb th question is it better than a WIlliams is diffiucult to answer even if we just say as a track day machine. Ok the cars might not be that much different but since track days often mean accidents the Williams is the car I'd prefere to have to fix the Tropy is the car I'd like to crash in. The Williams is an older car trying to compaire a 10 yr old car with a new car is so difficult as there are few fresh examples around which people are willing to put up as a comparison.

KingStromba
21-08-2005, 22:29
LOL, resevoir dampers. Like any road driver will induce damper fade :roll:

Mark_Ritchspeed
21-08-2005, 22:44
This bits my favourite.

"Equally significant with these dampers is their resistance to overheating, thanks to that remote reservoir. The only snag is that they are said to cost 10 times the price of a normal damper - it's just as well that they should never need to be replaced."

So, if the average retail price for a damper is around £60 then 1 of these will be £600!!!!!

£600 for 1 ****ing damper. You better hope it never goes wrong. :shock:

KingStromba
21-08-2005, 23:07
I have contacted Renault UK already and renault France told them that the dampers will sell for £350 each from Renault parts departments.

So add your VAT and your looking at £411 each, or £1644 to replace the entire suspension.

Zollo
21-08-2005, 23:43
Ouch :shock:

Mind you, with something like that, I'd imagine there would be quite a few companies that would refurbished stuff like that. Surely there are quite a few competition cars using similar components? Remote reservoir dampers are on just about every motorbike going and cost about £450 for a decent aftermarket replacement. Or you get it rebuilt for £150, just like new :)

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 08:39
Quote from Evo mag Trophy review (emphasis theirs):

'After driving the M6 the Trophy feels SLOW'

So according to them, in one sentence it can keep up with the M6, then they state that the car feels SLOW compared to the M6.

So which is it? Very poor journalism to be inconsistent within a review.

I notice Clarkson did it on the 182 review. He absolutetly hated the car, then suddenly it was like he was reading a Renault press release and he loved it.

Zollo
22-08-2005, 09:15
As you well know Stromba, outright power does not necessarily make a fast point to point car. A 500bhp Mustang would get whopped by 276bhp Evo down a twisty road. But that Evo would feel pretty slow after blasting along some motorways in the Mustang for the last day. That's what Jethro was illustrating.

Clarkson does that a lot of the time with cars. If he starts off negative, he'll end up liking the car. If he starts off positive, he'll end up saying it's not that great. That's what he does.

It's so easy :P

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 09:24
As you well know Stromba, outright power does not necessarily make a fast point to point car. A 500bhp Mustang would get whopped by 276bhp Evo down a twisty road. But that Evo would feel pretty slow after blasting along some motorways in the Mustang for the last day. That's what Jethro was illustrating.

Clarkson does that a lot of the time with cars. If he starts off negative, he'll end up liking the car. If he starts off positive, he'll end up saying it's not that great. That's what he does.

It's so easy :P

The whole point is though Zollo, that they wernt blasting along a motorway in the BMW M6. They were driving it on the Twisty Italian pass. Its either quicker than the Trophy or it isnt. I know i could drive one quicker down that mountain pass than a Trophy, i wonder why Evo couldnt :roll:

Mark_Ritchspeed
22-08-2005, 09:31
I cant imagine an M6 being in its element on a mountain pass. I would be surprised if an M6 (as good as it is) would be quicker than a decent hot hatch on a twisty mountain road.

I can honestly take the Clio on some of the mountain roads around here, where an Evo wouldnt come close as its too big.

Zollo
22-08-2005, 09:40
The whole point is though Zollo, that they wernt blasting along a motorway in the BMW M6. They were driving it on the Twisty Italian pass. Its either quicker than the Trophy or it isnt. I know i could drive one quicker down that mountain pass than a Trophy, i wonder why Evo couldnt :roll:

They were Stromba. They started off in Munich, where they picked the M6 up. They then drove all the way down to somewhere near Rome, where the launch of the Trophy was. Reading it, the impression is that the Trophy kicks off the Italian pass runs, after they've just driven all the way down in the M6. So that was what happened. And so the Trophy would feel slow as, in a straight line, it is.

I'm not saying the Trophy is faster point to point. Jethro doesn't say that either. He ends it saying, "...you can't write a 'Clio Destroys M6' headline". The point of a story like that is to illustrate that a very capable performance car with humble beginings can keep much faster, more expenive machinery honest on real world roads.

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 10:38
So explain this then?

Evo and all the other motoring mags claim that the reason the Trophy handles so well is that it has resevoir dampers.

One of the reasons you fit a resevoir damper is to allow a stiffer damping (due to thicker shaft) i beleive. Fair enough, but i can get stiffer dampers for my Williams and they dont cost £400 each, so i really dont see that as an advantage of these dampers particularly, as renault could simply have fitted a stiffer damper. Avo do a stiffer and adjustable damper for the Williams at about £100 each i think. All the manufacturers do.

The real advantage of the damper comes from the improved heat dissipation effects, such that over long runs, the damper maintains a more consistent heat dynamic, and therefore doesnt induce damper fade. I am guessing that the resevoir dampers are fitted to bikes for this reason mainly, but it is just a guess as i dont ride.

So if this is the advantage of the Trophy, then the advantage would be seen on long runs round a track (20+ laps), where the dampers are working very hard, not on short runs in a mountain pass, where damper temps wont get as comparitively high i would have thought. Hence the reason these dampers are fitted to race cars, that do long runs on tracks, and rally cars, that again do long runs and maximum speeds.

Its a fallacy, from what ive read that a resevoir damper can supply superior damping over more conventional dampers. After all they are just conventional dampers with a separate oil resevoir. What they do do, is supply superior efficiency of the damper, such that it is more consistent. So i really dont see that the Trophy could be reviewed as better than the 182 cup for example. Sure on a track race the Trophy would be more consistent, but over a road comparrison the difference would be INDESCRIBABLY SMALL.

Its a bit like fitting 6 pot brakes to a Clio 182 with race pads. Sure they reviewers may love the braking force when they are hammering round a track, but have completely lost sight of the fact that those brakes are overkill for the car and the average man, and not really applicable to road use. And they also forget that a 182 Trophy costs 5 grand more than a 182 cup, or did until they had to reduce the price because no one except the chumps on cliosport where buying them.


In my opinion Renault could have made a car as good as the Trophy, if they had usesd the lighter wheels of the Trophy, and a normal damper at the same settings as the Sach resevoir damper, along with all the other small revisions. I guarantee no one would have been abel to tell these cars apart.

But as we know, no one would have fallen for buying that car at 15k. Add the word resevoir damper, and suddenly the car becomes worth the extra cash though :roll:

Zollo
22-08-2005, 10:50
Fair enough. As I've said before, I reckon a normal 182 Cup would have been able to put up pretty much as good a fight.

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 11:27
I think we saw the same with the PE2 tyres.

'Specially constructed for the 182'

'Stiffer sidewall'

And we later found out that they werent specially made for the 182, and anyone could buy them and they were just normal tyres.


Just a buzz word that at the time appeals to the stupid British mentality for gimmicks.

Zollo
22-08-2005, 11:41
Such a cynic :wink:

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 11:41
:D haha

Mark_Ritchspeed
22-08-2005, 11:45
I personally cant see the need for reservoir dampers on anything but competition cars.

Even then, to my mind its only really rally cars and offroad racers that give dampers an absolute pounding and are likely to overheat them.

They are obviously very good dampers, but as Stromba says they really are overkill on a lightweight road car like a Clio.

In my experience the tyres and brakes would overheat long before the dampers anyway.

Swervin_Mervin
22-08-2005, 11:47
Jeremy Townsend assured me that they definitely were not gimmicks intended to assure that the bits left in the parts bin at Dieppe went. :wink:

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 11:52
I personally cant see the need for reservoir dampers on anything but competition cars.

Even then, to my mind its only really rally cars and offroad racers that give dampers an absolute pounding and are likely to overheat them.

They are obviously very good dampers, but as Stromba says they really are overkill on a lightweight road car like a Clio.

In my experience the tyres and brakes would overheat long before the dampers anyway.

I agree with this totally. If you look at a slow motion of a sports bike front wheel travelling over pretty normal roads you can see why they have resevoir dampers. Constant little defections in the front fork. I dont know whether it is because of the tyres or really stiff springs, but the dampers must take a pounding, just as they would on an off road car (alot of 4x4 competition cars in off road events utilise them too).

KingStromba
22-08-2005, 11:59
Outside the Dieppe factory can be found the origin of the Sach dampers

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/00720Rubbish20disposal20Rotherham20.jpg

Andy
25-08-2005, 22:59
:?