View Full Version : Another effing mishap
Ok, there's been a slight misfire, since FCS, like the car is struggling, pulling away in 1st it's as if the clutch was slipping, it was juddery. Driving home, it didn't feel happy at low revs, and it felt underpowered a little.
Driving to work I noticed the revs would just dip to zero for a split second sometimes. I cleaned out the spark plugs thinking it could be that. Drove to work, car juddered to a halt in rush hour. Yay. Car would try to crank over but get stuck, as if one cylinder was unhappy.
I've got the car apart. Hand cranked engine, seems fine hand cranking. Went to start car without plugs in to see if it cranks. The starter motor just whirs, it appears there is no contact between it and the flywheel. The pistons dont move. Could the starter have been jamming on the flywheel, or perhaps a flywheel issue? Surely it is only a mechanical thing, no sensors involved right?
The starter has been overheating more and more lately and leaving me unable to start when hot.
If it is the starter, how the fek did it cause me to stall and stop engine starting?
Right, got it to crank, but it didn't fire the way I hoped. Huge flames out from the trumpets...sounded rough as fek. I am guessing cambelt skipped a bit, crank sensor or ECU...seemed to be able to hand crank easily.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j5yjiqaqib9c1y6/2012-06-20%2016.57.10.mp4
Hmmm...battery has taken a beating today so likely could do with a recharge, but still no joy. Small flame out the trumpet in the above link.
I've cleaned crank sensor, had a bit of a look at the loom, swapped to new spark plugs, swapped out the Megane coilpack and swapped the coolant temp. sensor.
When plugs are not in it cranks over as if it were fine, I think the timing may be out and it is trying to compress too much on a cylinder and can't, and so the flames out of cylinder two are there as it's sparking too late or early and the inlet valves are open.
Run out of energy today, will have to look later.
Is the starter disengaging ok???
Laine_16v
20-06-2012, 20:41
Thats ECU/Mechanical related IMO, nothing to do with any sensors or the starter motor. You said it got progressively worse over a day or so, id check the cat pulleys havent slipped their timing
Is the starter disengaging ok???
I think so. BUT not 100% sure on this. The car was going fine for a bit on the way to work, then started dropping revs in massive spikes....like huge engine braking had been forced on it or a total loss of power for an instant...then it felt like it just wanted to die for about 5s, then died and wouldn't start.
I did hand crank it. It didn't seem abnormal and it didn't get stuck (thank ****!). When there is no compression in the cylinders (with no spark plugs) it turns over on starter perfectly.
It could be a TPS or crank sensor issue, but I think this issue could be as Laine says, cambelt related. I had a quick look at the belt when hand cranking. It seems ok, but there is a possible sign on the toothed bits to say it could have skipped a beat.
Did you see vid link? I have some more but they are kinda boring. I missed the first cranking over when I had finished the comp. test, it had a massive flameout from the trumpets which panicked me a fair bit!!
sideways danny
20-06-2012, 22:08
if it cranks fine with no plugs in but not when it's got compression, the starter is weak. This could be down to being a cooked starter, or the battery being old and having a low output, could even be alternator not charging the battery properly so you get a weak spark and that's what you've been getting as a gradually worseing misfire.
Personally I'd be drop testing the battery to check for cranking amps after giving it a good charge.
Yes, it would not help if the electrical power was weak, or the starter was still engaged or has ****ed up somehow.
However, this is the car being cranked over without sparks or injectors...sounds pretty normal:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2jo6dslotjyb4a/2012-06-20%2016.15.52.mp4
LEIGH-ANNE
21-06-2012, 00:25
Arent you glad you have a decent phone now? :)
sideways danny
21-06-2012, 00:46
Yes, it would not help if the electrical power was weak, or the starter was still engaged or has ****ed up somehow.
However, this is the car being cranked over without sparks or injectors...sounds pretty normal:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2jo6dslotjyb4a/2012-06-20%2016.15.52.mp4
plugs out gives no compression, so no resistance, so very low cranking amps in demand.
flames out the trumpets is called stand-off, which is unused fuel being spat back out when it ignites at an unintended time, weak spark and would do this, it's possible if the voltage is low enough that the ECU is dropping in and out under cranking too
Arent you glad you have a decent phone now? :)
Ye! And with Allans help I got the SatNav working on it too so I didn't get lost on the way back from FCS for a change!
I'll check the voltage from the alternator when I charge the battery at the weekend. Will order another spare crank sensor for a 172 as well.
I think garaging the Clio for a bit and fixing a few bits might make sense now.
LEIGH-ANNE
21-06-2012, 11:33
Ye! And with Allans help I got the SatNav working on it too so I didn't get lost on the way back from FCS for a change!
I'll check the voltage from the alternator when I charge the battery at the weekend. Will order another spare crank sensor for a 172 as well.
I think garaging the Clio for a bit and fixing a few bits might make sense now.
I love being right!
Hush you!
:D
I have ordered some new bits for teh Willy: New TPS and wiring loom thingy from AT Power (£75 or so!) and a new Crank sensor from ECP. I have got a spare in the attic but I CBA to find it TBH IRL. KK.
Wil lswap it all out at weekend, and if they don't work, at least I have spares for when they DO fail :) I'll reset cambelt after that if they are not at fault. Got yet more spark plugs coming too.
You dont have much look mate. Hope everything works out soon!
Get Oulton Park booked - it will give you a target :-k
sideways danny
21-06-2012, 21:49
Hush you!
:D
I have ordered some new bits for teh Willy: New TPS and wiring loom thingy from AT Power (£75 or so!) and a new Crank sensor from ECP. I have got a spare in the attic but I CBA to find it TBH IRL. KK.
Wil lswap it all out at weekend, and if they don't work, at least I have spares for when they DO fail :) I'll reset cambelt after that if they are not at fault. Got yet more spark plugs coming too.
just change the battery first
LEIGH-ANNE
21-06-2012, 22:45
just change the battery first
I have some
Teh spares I've ordered have been on the list for ages anyway. Can't touch car till weekend.
You dont have much look mate. Hope everything works out soon!
Get Oulton Park booked - it will give you a target :-k
Don't you mean Snetterton? :D
Don't you mean Snetterton? :D
Ahh wait, you mean RS track day...I'll have it fixed by then I reckon unless there is valve and piston damage.
Out of the two days. Would rather u did Oulton as I know u will enjoy it. I've not done snetterton yet!
Update: Timing seems fine, no slippage of cambelt.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-23155406.jpg
Camera at a slight angle here, but the timing is right.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-23155346.jpg
All good.
I got a 172 crank sensor, which I thought would fit, but it doesn't.
New TPS should be here soon. I need to borrow a laptop with a COM port to reset the throttle pot on the ECU when it arrives.
K. Charged battery to max. Didn't start, just sounded healthier cranking this time.
Replaced fuel pump for my spare Walbro, it primes fine.
Replaced fuel filter.
Changed plugs. Checked spark, there is a spark, seems strong going from coil to earth on the engine.
Still not starting.
do the bores smell of fuel if you remove spark plug after cranking?
I have noted there was a bit of fuel smell but less than normal. I'll be checking the injector earths and other earths later tonight.
check for fuel so your 100% happy its getting in there. so plugs out and leave it till no smell, plugs in and crank to attempt to start it fully, then plugs out and check :-)
Yea, I'll do that later too! Hopefully getting a new crank sensor that actually fits later too. ****ing car.
I have a feeling the bodyshop could have disturbed an earthing point or two. Will check their handy work later...
its possible
have you made and solid progress on the compression test though? if you have fuel and spark then only thing really left is compression, which you have had a dubious result for!
sideways danny
25-06-2012, 15:06
so.......battery replaced yet? It's probably flooded at the moment so stick some plugs in it
Pretty sure this is crank sensor.
ECP confirmed they sent me the wrong part (there is an error on their website for F4R 730 crank sensors I think). Should have replacement tomorrow.
fingers crossed, i'm still unsure though as your getting spark, without correct crank sensor you wouldnt
fingers crossed, i'm still unsure though as your getting spark, without correct crank sensor you wouldnt
Actually, I think you can but it might be out of sequence with the cam timing? Tell me if I am wrong.
perhaps on aftermarket management then? as far as am aware std management would see wrong one as none and give zero sparkage. again I could be wrong however
sideways danny
26-06-2012, 17:46
Pretty sure this is crank sensor.
ECP confirmed they sent me the wrong part (there is an error on their website for F4R 730 crank sensors I think). Should have replacement tomorrow.
there are 2 different ones as renault updated the part and the loom. The plug is different so you can't mix and match. That's all.
Battery needs replacing
ECP delivered a new crank sensor. Still does not work.
I had the ECU out. Could be that, but looks fine.
The car turns over, and then tries to fire on one cylinder (but wrong timing) and halts turning over as it's probably firing whilst that piston in on its upward travel, if it is WOT at that point it backfires out of the trumpet with flames.
If coil not plugged in, it just turns over but never catches or backfires as there is total lack of spark.
I am awaiting a new TPS and will test injectors next.
This is all a ****ing ballache I don't need tbh. Changed fuel filter, fuel pump, crank sensor, had ECU out, sparks out goddam so many times, swapped megane coilpack, messed about with batteries for ages, earths all over the car, had some of the loom apart, checked all easy fuses...ffs!
Much more and it's off to Williams Heaven.
I've already tried the battery route, bigger charged battery, jump start and charging my old one. It's not working still.
i'll have the LSD box ;-)
come on man don't be soft, you'll figure it. i'd get a well known and functioning comp tester on there tbh
i'll have the LSD box ;-)
come on man don't be soft, you'll figure it. i'd get a well known and functioning comp tester on there tbh
LSD and box need some repair.
Yea I almost bought another comp tester the other day just to verify. If engine has gone, I will have to have a long hard think about what to do. Kinda tired of replacing engines.
zmaster2k
26-06-2012, 23:04
you checked silly things like earths alternator etc etc?
sideways danny
26-06-2012, 23:06
could even be alternator not charging the battery properly so you get a weak spark and that's what you've been getting as a gradually worseing misfire.
post 7 ;)
you checked silly things like earths alternator etc etc?
I am suspecting this could be the cause now, and yes, it could have damaged the battery.
I tried one last time tinight, just now, to start the car and noticed an electrical burning smell, from the ITB backplate/alternator region, so yea it could be shorting out. Also noted the nut on the back of alternator power output spade connector was not on properly. I'll earth the bugger with cables tomorrow after charging anotehr battery and try then. I've got the ITB backplate off now (fiddly job in the dark!) as it was touching the alternator.
Fixed all the things I've found to be dodgy, replaced all the stuff I can except the TPS...car still won't start. Backfires a bit through trumpets, then almost seizes on one cylinder (maybe an out of time cylinder firing).
New alternator/belt. Timing is ok. battery fully charged, different battery tried, CTS changed. Sparks changed, coilpack changed, starter connections checked, compression test done (possible low compression?) new earths fitted, new alternator power cable to battery fitted with better connectors, new motorsport Walbro fuel pump fitted, new fuel filter.
Possible causes? Bottom end screwed, FPR, TPS, injectors being weird, ECU, loom.
If bottom end has gone, it's going into storage for a bit and I am buying another car.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-24182346.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-24182354.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-24182358.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-24182412.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-24182419.jpg
http://s174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/?action=view&current=2012-06-26224026.mp4
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-29151431.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-29151446.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-06-29151514.jpg
Random pics of the work over the last few days.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/newaltnbelt.jpg
New alternator and belt, and extra earth cable. My alternator earthing sucks as I have powdercoated alternator mountings, so bad earthing without cables.
Off to get another compression tester shortly, will retest. If compression still showing bad I'll pop the head off and check HG and pistons/rings etc
its a saga now!
http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a330/coopahstar/PapaLazarou.jpg
hope you sort it fella!!
Compression tester showed odd results. I think old one is faulty. 1: 130 2: 190 3: 210 4: 250 on new tester.
It may have residual oil and petrol in it though from last test. Old tester was showing about 60 psi on number one, new one said 130. Big difference.
Would explain why my old engine said low comp too and it was fine...
I've soldered in a new TPS. I put yet more sparks in as the ones this morning were SOAKED in petrol, so much so they have had all carbon cleaned off them.
Battery died trying to start car, as the compression got higher it struggled. Same when I used new battery.
I've spent £250 just messing about now replacing stuff. This on top of another bunch of bills if I take the head off or whatever, plus working almost everyday after work and all over weekends...I'm becoming very low on morale.
Chin up son.
Do you have another car to use during the day.
Make this your solid 2nd car.
I've borrowed a car in the meantime.
No one seems to have a laptop I can plug into the ECU. It needs a COM port to use the special cable with the ECU.
Gonna try one more time with a fully charged battery but after that I'll just leave it alone for a couple of weeks and decide what to do.
Don't bother selling it - too much has gone into it now.
Just detune the engine IMO - or fit a new one which is less maintenance.
Well, once I've sorted this mortgage out I will be buying another car. I am going to buy an M5 E39 V8 for the daily grind, as I need a performance fix if the Clio isn't working.
It's just annoying to do so much and get no where. Again! Doing the comp test, I noticed that piston 1 made a different sound. I thought perhaps HG on that piston, so I popped a spark plug into cylinder 2 in case it was a break in HG between them, but no difference to the PSI. I'll check the plugs again sometime and try anotehr comp test with a charged battery. Charging now.
Even if I get it going, I need to pull the box as well to send off, as it needs work and a check up of the diff.
Battery charged. Checks plugs again. Definitely fuel in them pistons!
Did anotehr comp test just to be sure:
1:215
2:195
3:230
4:225
Good results I would say?
Battery cranking power was noticeably lot lower on final cranking. Could it be TWO faulty batteries?
6 pages of me describing an issue. May as well be a ****ing project thread.
U love tinkering wobba. Suprised you've not had another ecu on to check?
So to sumerise - u have spark? U have fuel? Is the oil free from water and fuel ???
Coolant looks good, apart from a tiny layer of the usual. Barely noticeable. I do love tinkering.
Someone metioned relays could be an issue? Also, I don't know how good the spark is, and main battery seems to run flat pretty darn fast, so I might try a third battery.
Smokey McPot
02-07-2012, 10:21
A fully charged battery is different to a new battery.
Not saying I know how to fix it, just that difference is important. Also. Reading through my standard car had similar issues with stalling, cranking and starting, all of which improved with a new battery :)
You abilities with checking and changing stuff make me envious, don't give up on it :)
Thanks hehe.
I know I am close to finding the fault. I just need to be methodical now.
Some of you may remember my old engine having a long term mysterious misfire, which eventually went away by itself. I think this is a related problem, if not the same one, just worse!
Found a short which I think was draining battery over time, and would explain why my internal lights are going weird. I have a spare plug for it somewhere as well...just can't find it! May have to get Mr Brown on the case!
Don't forget to ring mat he is struggling getting online
Don't forget to ring mat he is struggling getting online
Ah yea, thanks. I have his number.
getting there by sounds of it mate
finally got the compression result looking good too, so that's a positive step :-)
Yes, I pulled out some wires today and had a close look at the crank sensor wiring at the plug. Seems fine. I stopped a tiny short with the interior lights temporarily. I bought anotehr battery, a Bosch, no difference with that either.
I tested the spark again from the both coilpacks. 1 & 2 spark seem erratic, e.g. they spark but stop sometimes and then splurge out a bunch of sparks out of sequence. 3 & 4 spark fine it seems, just sparking in sequence with the turning over noise. Anyone seen this before?
It has been said why don't I plug in a laptop 'and run diagnostic'. There is no diagnostic tool as such for this ECU, it is just a case of looking at the map and the sensor feedback. I don't have a laptop, but I have just gotten a COM to USB adaptor for it so I don't have to use an old COM port laptop.
All of this is a pain in the arse.
i can send you a spare coil pack if you want to test it and rule that out. if it fixes it buy it. if not send it back. its sat here doing nothing.
i can send you a spare coil pack if you want to test it and rule that out. if it fixes it buy it. if not send it back. its sat here doing nothing.
It's worth a try! Thanks very much :D I'll send you a PM!
Tomorrow after work I will be checking the wiring loom and pins to ECU. The LED on the ECU should stay green when cranking, it flickers green but then goes red. Apparently this indicates a possible loss of synchronisation with the crank sensor, or that is has somehow lost it's 60-2 sensor setting for the Megane flywheel...it could also be due to interference from other electrical sources.
sideways danny
06-07-2012, 00:04
I wonder if the ECU has lost it's map somehow, like the wiring fault has spiked it and cleared it down.
I spoke to Dave Walker about it and he said it wasn't possible for it to lose the map, but I am wondering if it has reset the basic configuration or a setting somewhere. He has a backup of my map just in case.
I've got that USB adapter you linked on FB, just need a laptop, which I think I can get hold of np. When I plug it in I can check that. In the meantime I have some bling for the engine bay and so if I need to check the loom, no big loss as I can fit my shiny new stuff at the same time.
It's actually scary when it backfires out the trumpets as it is pinking loads obviously and you can feel it. I stop cranking the second it does it.
Posting coil pack today fella
Posting coil pack today fella
:D Lovely.
I could have damaged the coils I already have here as the car was doing some weird stuff and shorting out. The electrics are ok with the alternator now though.
I am taking to ECU and loom out tonight to check over.
good luck fella! hope you find the cause!
Yea, I am beginning to really miss ITB noises :(
Not much more left to check surley!
Stop calling me surley :)
No, can't be much left to check.
After all this the car will have had another fairly big overhaul tbh: New battery, crank sensor, new TPS, new Walbro fuel pump, fuel filter, new alternator, new earth cabling, new spark plugs...sheesh!
Have all the mods done away with the distributor cap and rotor arm?
Yes the have. His running a megane coil pack, so no dizzy cap, leads etc
Have all the mods done away with the distributor cap and rotor arm?
Keep up kenny! You're about two years behind!!! Mine is not normal at all now.
I knew you had modded it extensively Wobba but I couldn't keep up with it all. :-D
Hehehehe, np mate :D It's a proper banzai car now !!
Ok, just got the loom and ECU out tonight. Bit pissed up, but I am checking over ther crank sensor wiring. A weeny bit is a bit dodgy so I am going to re-wire it, and order some shielded 2 core shit to replace it with tonight, as crank sensor wiring is prone to interference.
5 pints of Peroni Nastro Azzuro, a gin and tonik and a Pimms & lemonade....plus some tunes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xWKFSrjSbI
A good evening. Oh yeaaaaaa.
This bitch will be pwning out on the road and track again soon I think ^^
Leighanne has generously offered me her laptop to use with the new Canems ECU COM port> USB adapter and software I uploaded to Dropbox on my phone for the K6 ECU. If there's anything obvious ( I've seen my map loads ) I will spot it.
Tonight:
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-07-06185506.jpg
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-07-06224258.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/mseuenksjflblzw/2012-07-06%2022.42.58.jpg)
Crank sensor to ECU plug (to be re-wired)
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-07-06224851.jpg (https://www.dropbox.com/s/6guj1hyrf6b703a/2012-07-06%2022.48.51.jpg)
Some bare wire at the sensor end of the crank sensor, which isnt so good as it leaves it vulnerable to the heavy power fields of the alternator cable and battery. I will either chop it back or completely rewire it with new shielded 2-core stuff.
I have some fancy cable tidy too, but it's not here yet.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/comparison1-2.jpg
Rewiring...
Looking at new car...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/pewpew.jpg
pewpew
Update. I think tehre is something wrong with piston 2. The spark plug had a lot less fuel on it and while the rest had a tiny layer o carbo, it had nothing on it and was quite dry.
When I tried a new coilpack, and after I had replaced the wiring loom with freshly soldered crank sensor plugs at the sensor end and check the ECU end (seemed fine) I tried the car with no 1 & 2 injector power. It coughed and almost started this time.
I think when I did another wet comp test the tester sucked up some oil and its ****ed and wont reset to zero, yet more cash, and I melted the skuttle panel a little with carb cleaner cloth left on it.
Not having fun anymore. Car sti wont start, comp test readings were weird:
1. 262
2. 188
3. 262
4. 221
I've spent a load of money now and tbh am about to give up and strip the car, and I mean it this time. I just can't be bothered! And I can't be bothered retuning it to standard either. Plus it would bore the shit out of me in normal spec.
Take it the coil pack arrived?
Take it the coil pack arrived?
Yea it did thanks! I picked it up from work yesterday but didn't get home till this afternoon. I plugged it in etc but it has had no effect :upset2:
bad times mate :-(
if you do kill it talk to me about the box................. ;-) and low the vultures did circle ;-)
ClioDan87
08-07-2012, 23:10
Even with those compression figures it should still start on 3 cylinders?!?
Its got to be the ECU/MAP? You've practically changed every sensor there is ... have you plugged it into a laptop?
I know, it's weird as hell. Unless the comp was really low it would start, unless there is perhaps too much compression?
The compression tester has gone tits up so I will have to get another one now. I think oil got in the line and messed it up.
Not got hold of a laptop yet.
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-07-08215439.jpg
Inside, the ECU looked okay too...
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w102/barneywobba/Williams%20217/2012-07-08215420.jpg
none of the compression results obtained so far would cause it not to start, high or low, I wouldn't of thought. it'd just run lumpy.....
I am getting a laptop today to poke about at the .MAP file. First thing I will check is the flywheel config...it should obviously be set as 60-2, but who knows, it might not.
If there is nothing obviously wrong with the ECU or map I will be looking at the fuelling again, and drilling out that rounded camcover bolt to check the top of the head for any signs of damage etc.
It could be just something really obvious that I have missed. Just hope all this misfiring hasn't done any damage.
walters300
09-07-2012, 21:49
:upset2: Gutted to see your having more problems with it, a common problem with your symptoms sounds like the head gasket blowing between 2 cylinders, it happened to me before and it's happened to quite a few, always goes between the 2 nearest to the Cambelt, could be completely wrong but worth considering.
I had considered it and would have had the head off...BUT...
I got the laptop, got it linked up to the ECU and the first thing I checked was the crank sensor setting. It was set at 12-1 for a Yamaha setup, NOT 60-2 which is exactly why I rewired the crank sensor and replaced it not realising the ECU was at fault, not other hardware.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/zre1dglwrtejakt/2012-07-09%2019.38.24.mp4
FUKING FINALLY!!!!!! I had a look at the rest of the map, and I recalibrated the TPS (I replaced it) so the throttle pot is okay. The other bits on the map seem ok. I am too tired and its dark, so wil ltest drive tomorrow.
I still have a couple of faults. The temperature sensor isn't showing on the LCD dash display, the main lights are not turning on and the lights on warning buzzer won't stfu unless I turn lights off. Something weird going on there. Engine was very tappety but seems ok.
Thank God.
walters300
09-07-2012, 23:38
=D> your some determined dude in fairness! Delighted for you
zmaster2k
09-07-2012, 23:42
Well done mate!!
Chuffed for you!
why would the ecu suddenly change the trigger pattern?
Thanks guys!!!
:affro::pompom::groupwave::groupwave::groupwave::g roupwave::pompom::affro:
I do not know why Matt. I will ask Dave Walker. It is something of concern, but perhaps it was to do with the electrical issues I uncovered when trying to fix this. I notice now that my voltage reading on the ECU with the engine running, they are healthier than before. Maybe there was some kind of electrical spike...
Also, I had some welding done recently. I wonder if they did some damage when doing the welds? Possible.
I've now got to stop the lights on warning buzzer sounding and work out why the lights are not going on. I will sort that tomorrow :)
zmaster2k
10-07-2012, 00:20
Maps remained unchanged?
In fact...I saw the welder this evening and after reading a bit about it...he said he forgot to put the thing on which helps to stop electrical surges through the battery when welding? Hmm...my suspicions lie there.
Maps remained unchanged?
I have checked the map thoroughly this evening and compared back to back with other maps I have had. The one I have is the Dave Walker map for sure, just the crank sensor setting was different. Weird.
Sherlock Wobba strikes again, excellent work on a very weird and well hidden problem.
shame its cost so much time effort and cash to get there, but at least the Wobbanory-mo-bile is back :-)
Cheers guys. If I had a laptop I would have found it far sooner :(
Kinda funny that the Clio thought it was a Yamaha motorbike though lols.
It had an identity crisis!
I've messed something up though with the lights and buzzer, I don't think it is related. Once that's done, 0217 will be back to annoying my neighbours. Fuk me, I forgot how loud it is lol :D
Cheers guys. If I had a laptop I would have found it far sooner :(
Did offer 10 days ago..
Did offer 10 days ago..
I know dude, thanks, so busy right now and weather isn't much fun for meeting up!
my brain was starting to hurt towards the end of this chapter of Wob and Peace ! but glad you got it sorted eventually.:mechanic:
:D Fanks!
My brain hurt too :(
good to get the loom out and tidied though, one less thing on your mind for next time :-) so not all a total waste of time imo!
Uh oh....spoke too soon. The symptoms I had before total failure are back again. Losing revs, dropping to zero, then back again.
Going to send ECU to Emerald.
Never has your avatar been more apt. I know the feeling fella. Been there, done that, got fed up and gone standard.
I approached the welder on my car tonight and asked him if he had done any welding without anti surge or disconnecting the battery. I explained the trouble I have had, which he was aware of, and the moey I had spent. I also then said if he is sure that was not the fault then I might have to take the engine apart and rebuild it, which is neither cheap nor quick, and perhaps revealing what he did would save me a lot of time and bullshit. He said he definitely didn't screw up. I left his abode, where they had invited me in to talk about it.
After 20 minutes he visited my home telling me he was upset, and so was his wife. I explained if he thinks he is upset, perhaps he should step into my shoes for 3 weeks fixing my car? He got very upset, and said I was accusing him of bad workmanship and he would never make a mistake like that. I also pointed out the wiring issues and said if perhaps he had made a mistake like that he may have made an error again, and I reminded him what he told me about forgetting to use anti surge when I first spoke to him. He denied saying it, and said it must have been me who caused the damage and messed up the wiring, which is definitely not true. I asked him if he knew who had refitted the wires which got damaged, he said no, which seems strange as only two people have worked on the car. He then tried to get angry and refused to talk to me, so I tried to ask when he was planning to correct the dents he had put in the car previously, which he said he would repair, he refused to answer and walked off.
I asked him if he was aware of how much time and effort I had put into the car to fix this fault, he said yes. I told him the first thing Emerald ECU's had asked when I described the fault was 'have you had any welding done lately?'. He said it 'was not me'
Now I have two angry Glaswegians living on my doorstep, a car that is going to break down again in rush hour at any given moment and very little energy to **** about fixing it. Great. Was it worth it? Well, I am sick if ****ing cunts getting away with ****ing me over without consequence. At the very least, they know they are liars and have a bad conscience, but I am sure that somehow they will justify it to themselves in some kind of ****ed up way and blame me.
Pricks.
bad times mate, not really sure what you can do to be honest. there's no physical way to prove who's at fault, its just word against word.
all I can suggest is if you want to stick with the project, see what emerald have to say about how badly damaged the ecu is and if they can supply a spare to test the car with to see if its the ecu or wiring at fault
Yea, they've said the same kinda thing, send ECU back and see if the can duplicate the fault.
Car didn't go wrong today, but the revs are a little erratic and the electrical power fluctuates when things like indicators are on etc.
Yea, not much I can do unless I want a heart attack from stress. I had to say something though.
Smokey McPot
17-07-2012, 18:17
Is it possible you're being a bit over-sensitive with the quirks of the car, knowing from previous experience what it's like? Almost like you're expecting something to go wrong?
Possible, but not this time. I know what it's doing, its an intermittent fault which means the reset on the map for the ECU is not holding. I think it's a ECU hardware error caused by the welding.
Emerald have suggested I send it back to diagnose.
walters300
17-07-2012, 22:33
Unbelievable! That's seriously bad customer "care" .smack in the gob comes to mind from
Now on for any more cowboys I'd say, that way you will get some satisfaction and stress relief in one package, it seems every job has to be done DIY to get it right, even if that takes loads of time, try changing the coolant for some holy water or something to see if it keeps the demons at bay! On a serious note I hope they sort the Ecu out for you, change a few bits here and there and you should be ok, I'd change all the relays etc as well as they could have welded contacts etc with the power surge
I might do the relays for good measure, good point. I did try reducing the amount of electrical stuff left over from the HID's today just in case. It is still showing signs of a bad earth maybe or a weak charge. I'll have anotehr look with ECU when I can but they have asked I send it back anyway.
Other than that the car is just amazing. I will be taking it to a bodyshop for a second opinion as it looks like they have welded the new body panel straight over a rotting sill and covered it up with sealant. The slot for the rear offside jacking point was blocked over with what looked like silicone, but when I yanked it off it was rust underneath and sheet metal covering the gap so you can't slot the OEM jack into the slot. If I track the car I wont care, it's jut a shame after all the effort I went to to get a new entire rear quarter from France and handle it with uber care to not dent it...has two dents on now from bodyshop btw :/
Broken down again. Same problem. I am sat in car, no start. Touched wiring loom a little with engine hot and running: boom it died as I wiggled wires.
walters300
19-07-2012, 22:34
It has to be the current surge from welding which has weakened all the sensitive stuff in the ecu, I'd send it back for a refurb as electronics are temperamental at the best of times let alone after a good scalding, you have done very well to find the fault and now it's obvious that the components have had a real surge of current which would heat the metal to near melting point and create fractures at best, send it off and think of any other component that is electronic and might have been cooked and replace it, and then call down and see that guy and give him some penance!
Yea! At least I have managed to isolate the fault this time. Plus I have ordered an old laptop off ebay to run the Emerald software for the car, so I can fix it if it ever happens again or to mess about with the map hoho (which I wont!).
I will take the loom out and call Emerald Monday and see what the turnaround is. If it is fast enough I can make it to Snetterton next week!
Edit: I BET it has changed the trigger pattern again but I will put money on it that isn't the yamaha bike this time but something else. The car is turning over trying to start again but this time it feels like the timing is different again. I am betting it's Ford 30-1 or something. I will take a little movie tomorrow when I hook it up to my mates laptop.
Twelve pages of HELL.
Almost over....
Snetterton - now that's what I want to hear! Driving or spectating son???
:) Not sure yet. I will know shortly!
I've found the electrical problem, this time where I refitted the loom I damaged a solder on the crank sensor, it was broekn all along. Probably why it went a bit funny the other day. I'll put it back together today. The trigger pattern was fine in the ECU.
Yay. Finally. Can you fix it, probably.
I spoke too soon :(
The lights were flickering at idle, so I suspected I had damaged the alternator. Swapped it out for the old one and thaty was sorted...checked spark plug wells again and number 2 had oil in it as usual. Cleaned it out. Plug ok. Car is sadly still dropping to zero revs momentarily. It stalled again once but restarted easily. I think I am going to have to send the ECU away this time.
I am going to buy a bicycle I think.
what a total mind fcuk of an issue, keeps toying with you wobba!
come on man, I know you can pull through this and get the love back!
Yea I know. It's either the ECU or something really simple that I've just not seen yet. I definitely blew the regulator on the new alternator. I have it in for repairs. I was getting over 16volts with engine running on battery posts.
I am going to buy a bike for fun and commuting though anyway as I need to get a bit fitter really.
I could try a completely new shielded twisted-pair for the crank sensor, and a new plug, and wire it up as far away from the ignition and alternator/battery feed I guess.
I am still convinced the problem has arisen since I had the second load of welding done.
I won't make Snetterton now. Damn shame. There's always something.
I have noticed if I pump the brake pedal it seems to kick start the problem. I have checked the wires to the rear cluster and although they are a mess, they are not shorting out.
Might be best to get a replacement interior loom for the rear lights of Mat!
Might be best to get a replacement interior loom for the rear lights of Mat!
It is on my list of things to ask him for!! Has been for a while as I have had issues there before. I jury rigged it, and it's not caused any trouble since.
I have now fixed the misfire issue. I thought to recheck the most basic things again carefully. The gearbox earth looked ok, and I had only scrubbed down the part where it connects to the body not long ago, and tested it with a jumper cable (which was ****ed, I didn't know at the time). The earth cable was falling apart at the gearbox end. Replaced, cleaned, sanded down, carb cleaned the crap off....
JOBS A GOODUN!!!!!
I will test a little more, but if the car behaves I think I will at least come and be a spectator at Snetterton on Saturday :D
I am low on tyre tread and tbh if I had less shit with this I would have got some 888's but I've had no time and I need more cash to sort out a new mortgage this month, otherwise I'd be on track. Will bring helmet just in case ;)
I might be able to get you on track saturday pal - would u be Interested in a place????
jees, after all that palaver and it seems it may of been just a little strap of metal :-(
Nope. It's still doing it and getting worse.
I've had the entire car apart now. I am sure it's the ECU so I'm leaving it now and cycling to work instead. Sending ECU off to Emerald. Suspect is a damaged capacitor probably due to a voltage spike, typical of MIG welding ****ups.
volymmannen
30-07-2012, 23:34
I admire you if it was my car i blown it to bit on page 6 :-), i know you get it fixed soon, god luck from sweden.
Thanks Voly.
The ECU was collected today by courier to go back to Emerald for inspection. If, after that, they cannot find fault with the ECU I will leave the car with an auto electrician.
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