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big hp
27-02-2005, 13:48
How much is a new column from Renault?

My steering is a bit lose. Had a 2nd hand one put on just before I bought it but that was obviously worn.

Winston
27-02-2005, 14:18
£136.54+vat....... 7700846145..... £160.43inc vat

big hp
27-02-2005, 14:24
Cheers fella :)

Did you buy one from Renault?

Winston
27-02-2005, 14:46
Yes...........just sold a brand new valver one to daz for £80, due to needing a manual column. bit of a slap but at least its going to last.

big hp
27-02-2005, 19:05
It came with everything needed then?

I'll order one tomorrow.

Winston
27-02-2005, 19:10
The new one I got, the steering wheel was held on by a bolt rather than a nut like the old column. but depends what yours is like, think its a newer design

big hp
27-02-2005, 19:31
Havn't looked what design mine is. Its a n reg valver so could be the newer design.

Got a snap off wheel/boss so hope it'll fit without messing about.

Winston
27-02-2005, 19:34
Ive got a snap off boss on mine, fits no probs

I would order the bolt just in case, only about £2, other wise you will have to drive round with a loose steering wheel like I did lol

big hp
27-02-2005, 19:40
Ok mate i'll see if the monkeys at Renault can sort out a Column and a bolt LOL

2 live
27-02-2005, 20:52
hmm...controversial this..i was quoted £60 for a new steering column from reno two weeks ago

big hp
27-02-2005, 20:59
hmm...controversial this..i was quoted £60 for a new steering column from reno two weeks ago

Seriously? :?

I'll go to Renault tomorrow and see what price I get.

I may be in touch 2 live, with a big favour to ask. :lol:

LotuzClioWilliams
27-02-2005, 21:00
Why don't you weld the old column instead of getting a new column that will have play again after a while?

big hp
27-02-2005, 21:04
Don't want a welded column thanks. Daz summed it up here perfectly...

http://www.williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=982

KingStromba
27-02-2005, 23:05
It doesnt vibrate. Ive driven both welded and unwelded, and tbh i probably couldnt tell the difference. I doubt many ppl could. There is a little more feedback to the welded column, but you only feel this when driving at speed on a fast set of corners when the tyres are losing traction and grip.

big hp
28-02-2005, 13:44
Column is £137.91 + VAT. Just called Renault.

Don't know why you was quoted £60 2 live.

Winston
28-02-2005, 13:53
Because Reno are ghey!!!!!

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 13:55
£30 to weld it. :D 10 min job.

Swervin_Mervin
28-02-2005, 14:00
My local garage mentioned about people welding them when they did mine. He wasn't impressed at the idea to say the least.

I'm sure there must be issues relating to the strength at which the weld will break and whether that's a greater strength than it should be. The reason the design is that way is so that in the event of a crash the lower column will push over and probably split around the upper column, thus reducing the chance of getting a column through your chest.

big hp
28-02-2005, 14:09
£30 to weld it. :D 10 min job.

I know mate and i'm capable of welding it myself too. I just like the idea of a column which is as designed.

I'm a production/design engineer and knowing what I know I personally would rather have a collapseable column rather than a solid lump. My mate works at a porsche race outfit and he thought I was mad, as did his boss for even suggesting it could be welded.

Safety first for me. Tyres. brakes and steering IMHO need to be bang on. No compromise.

big hp
28-02-2005, 14:10
Cheers for the help Winston :)

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 14:17
From an engineering point of view, if you look at the column that is false.

1. If the weld breaks the steering will just become loose like it was before the weld. As people drive around with worn, unwelded columns all the time (ive seen loads), i really dont see this as a major concern.

2. Of course a garage will tell you to replace the column (£200+ veruses £30). They are in business, plus they may feel liability for welding a part they could replace.

3. Competition cars have welded columns. I would suggest this is not to save a few hundred quid, but that it conveys some performance advantage.

4. In a frontal impact the column would not collapse at the joint in question anyway IMO. It is more likely that the column would collapse over the rack. The lower universal joint is the likely place that the column would 'break' in an impact and the joins are weaker. If their was a probability of a colum through the chest from a welded column do you think the FIA would allow the welding of columns on competition cars? Surely these cars are more likely to suffer a frontal impact and therefore more likely to use the safest option for the driver.


Im not saying that i recommend everyone welds their columns. Far from it, if you can afford to replace the column, then go for it, more power to you.

But lets not make supposition and rummour about things we have no experience of. Ive driven both.

There is NO vibration
NO real difference in steering feels (slight at most)

Stating that their are safety issues, well i would say a welded column is SAFER than a loose column, yet people are prepared to drive around for months with soggy steering.

big hp
28-02-2005, 14:36
From an engineering point of view, if you look at the column that is false.

1. If the weld breaks the steering will just become loose like it was before the weld. As people drive around with worn, unwelded columns all the time (ive seen loads), i really dont see this as a major concern.

True, but probably worse due to the heat build up around the rubber componants. No not a major concern.

2. Of course a garage will tell you to replace the column (£200+ veruses £30). They are in business, plus they may feel liability for welding a part they could replace.

Probably don't feel comfortable doing it. Plus my mate had a company do his who generated too much heat in the column and melted the seals in the PAS rack, which ment they had a £500 repair bill for column and rack.

3. Competition cars have welded columns. I would suggest this is not to save a few hundred quid, but that it conveys some performance advantage.

My mates work/him build 1000bhp 911 and race them all over including Le-Mans. There columns are not welded and they both suggested I didn't weld mine. Solid columns on some cars yes but never welded.

4. In a frontal impact the column would not collapse at the joint in question anyway IMO. It is more likely that the column would collapse over the rack. The lower universal joint is the likely place that the column would 'break' in an impact and the joins are weaker. If their was a probability of a colum through the chest from a welded column do you think the FIA would allow the welding of columns on competition cars? Surely these cars are more likely to suffer a frontal impact and therefore more likely to use the safest option for the driver.

Agreed the column would probably collapse over the rack. It's just a risk I don't want to take.

Im not saying that i recommend everyone welds their columns. Far from it, if you can afford to replace the column, then go for it, more power to you.

Exactly, its down to individual choice. I'd prefer to change mine.

But lets not make supposition and rummour about things we have no experience of. Ive driven both.

I too have driven both. admittedly there wasn't much differance but to me it just felt it wasn't quite right.. But that could be down to a number of things.

There is NO vibration
NO real difference in steering feels (slight at most)

Stating that their are safety issues, well i would say a welded column is SAFER than a loose column, yet people are prepared to drive around for months with soggy steering.

Very true. Welding is a good compromise.

2 live
28-02-2005, 14:42
well..the column is kinda telescopic...the uj at the bottom is not where it collapses in the event of an accident...if u look bout 1/2 way up the cloumn ul see where the inner splined part of the column goes into the top part......welded or not the steering column will react the same way in the unfortunate event of an accident....and collapse inside itself.......which is also quite easy to knock back out n reuse too... apparently

Swervin_Mervin
28-02-2005, 14:47
Sp why's it called the anti-dive joint? It must do something.

2 live
28-02-2005, 14:53
its the joint thats connected to the part of the column that collapses.i.e the bottom half that slides up into the hollow top 1/2......

probly hence the name....it will do something...but it will do something for the car for sale to joe public........it will take out a little of the vibration on the rubber ...n thats about it, maybe even make it a little quieter...

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 15:13
From an engineering point of view, if you look at the column that is false.

1. If the weld breaks the steering will just become loose like it was before the weld. As people drive around with worn, unwelded columns all the time (ive seen loads), i really dont see this as a major concern.

True, but probably worse due to the heat build up around the rubber componants. No not a major concern.

2. Of course a garage will tell you to replace the column (£200+ veruses £30). They are in business, plus they may feel liability for welding a part they could replace.

Probably don't feel comfortable doing it. Plus my mate had a company do his who generated too much heat in the column and melted the seals in the PAS rack, which ment they had a £500 repair bill for column and rack.

The weld is no where near the rack. The column is welded next to the pedals.

3. Competition cars have welded columns. I would suggest this is not to save a few hundred quid, but that it conveys some performance advantage.

My mates work/him build 1000bhp 911 and race them all over including Le-Mans. There columns are not welded and they both suggested I didn't weld mine. Solid columns on some cars yes but never welded.

I meant Clio phase 1 competition cars. Ask Crono on CS for details about this. Also something to do with the manual steering.

4. In a frontal impact the column would not collapse at the joint in question anyway IMO. It is more likely that the column would collapse over the rack. The lower universal joint is the likely place that the column would 'break' in an impact and the joins are weaker. If their was a probability of a colum through the chest from a welded column do you think the FIA would allow the welding of columns on competition cars? Surely these cars are more likely to suffer a frontal impact and therefore more likely to use the safest option for the driver.

Agreed the column would probably collapse over the rack. It's just a risk I don't want to take.

Im not saying that i recommend everyone welds their columns. Far from it, if you can afford to replace the column, then go for it, more power to you.

Exactly, its down to individual choice. I'd prefer to change mine.

But lets not make supposition and rummour about things we have no experience of. Ive driven both.

I too have driven both. admittedly there wasn't much differance but to me it just felt it wasn't quite right.. But that could be down to a number of things.

There is NO vibration
NO real difference in steering feels (slight at most)

Stating that their are safety issues, well i would say a welded column is SAFER than a loose column, yet people are prepared to drive around for months with soggy steering.

Very true. Welding is a good compromise.

Swervin_Mervin
28-02-2005, 15:27
Taken from Circle Track:

"Anti-dive is a suspension parameter that affects the amount of suspension deflection when the brakes are applied. When a car is decelerating due to braking there is a load transfer off the rear wheels and onto the front wheels proportional to the center of gravity height, the deceleration rate and inversely proportional to the wheelbase. If there is no anti-dive present, the vehicle suspension will deflect purely as a function of the wheel rate. This means only the spring rate is controlling this motion. As anti-dive is added, a portion of the load transfer is resisted by the suspension arms. The spring and the suspension arms are sharing the load in some proportion. If a point is reached called “100-percent anti-dive,” all of the load transfer is resisted by the suspension arms and none is carried through the springs. When this happens there is no suspension deflection due to braking and no visible brake dive. There is still load transfer onto the wheels, but the chassis does not pitch nose down.

The method to achieve anti-dive is controlled by the upper and lower control-arm pivot points on the chassis. The exact determination is quite involved and is easily established with a good three-dimensional geometry computer program. In all suspensions there is a factor called the “side view swing arm.” This is a theoretical point of intersection of the arm planes projected into the fore-aft vertical plane through the wheel center. If this point is behind the wheel and above the ground, it will produce anti-dive. It will also provide anti-dive if it is below ground and ahead of the wheel. The other possible locations for this instant center are ahead and above ground as well as behind and below the ground. With these locations we have pro-dive. This means as the brakes are applied the suspension travels more than it would without any anti- features. The magnitude of the anti-feature, either pro or anti, is a function of how far the instant center is away from the ground. If it is on the ground, there is zero-percent anti-feature.

On passenger cars, anti-dive is added to make the pitch motions under braking more tolerable for the occupants because of the typical soft spring rates. The anti-dive is made the same for both sides of the car because most people brake in a straight line, and there is no directional preference on the street or in road racing for that matter. In circle-track racing it is common for racers to take any parameter to and beyond its limit.

In the evolution of the circle-track chassis, they have come to a solution that provides pro-dive on the left-front and anti-dive on the right-front suspension. The reasons for this are varied. For one thing, as the brakes are applied the car will deflect more on the left front than on the right. This will give a feeling of the front leading into the corner and not rolling out right away. This combination also provides for more of the load transfer to the front to be carried by the right-front wheel than the left front. The total transfer is the same; just the distribution is affected by the anti-feature in the geometry. More load transfer to the right front on corner entry is like adding wedge with the brakes on and is a stabilizing effect.

Anti-dive has an effect when there is a torque trying to rotate the spindle relative to the chassis. The typical case for this is under braking, but there is another case that can alter the loads and deflections of the wheels. This is the drag component of cornering load. When the wheels are turned and the tires are cornering hard there is a longitudinal load relative to the chassis centerline trying to rotate the spindle. To visualize this, think of the wheel turned 90 degrees!

Just like anti-dive in the front suspension, there can be anti-lift in the rear suspension that reduces rebound travel under braking. There is also anti-squat in the rear suspension under acceleration for rear-wheel-drive cars."


So there! I think I vaguely understand what's going on there. :?

KingStromba
28-02-2005, 16:01
Whats that go to do with a steering column?

big hp
28-02-2005, 16:16
I thought that when I read it.

Swervin_Mervin
28-02-2005, 16:29
Me too.

:lol:

big hp
28-02-2005, 18:14
LOL, nutter.