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Martin
18-08-2005, 22:57
http://www.performancegti.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3460

hmm :?

edde
18-08-2005, 23:02
I cannot see it being better the WIlliams is very light.

Don't get me wrong though those cars are super that suspension was amazing but I cannot see it beating a Williams.

Problem is you'd need to compare stock cars realy the Williams is superb back B roading.

KingStromba
18-08-2005, 23:44
LOL, i love internet forums. Theyre contain some of the same brain dead ****wits you meet in real life too. :roll:

Zollo
18-08-2005, 23:47
Blimey, that Nopoet guy seems to know as much about car handling as my granny does the ins and outs of lift-off oversteer. What an turd brain, bless him! That ZX19 guy is being very patient. :?

4WS Prelude even better than the Xantia. Jesus, the clash of the titans there :roll:

Great quote - "Sports mode: Lots of banging and clanging over bad surfaces...blah...blah...blah....so capable that you wonder what the point is of being able to turn it off." Erm, how did you start off that comment?

Rich
18-08-2005, 23:47
i'm sure it would if citreon made it leob's rally car lol but then again he could probably drive a mini and still paste everyone on the WRC

KingStromba
18-08-2005, 23:49
I just phoned ragnotti, he told me that he never turned sports mode off, and he wondered if anyone else did too :roll:

NickFr
19-08-2005, 08:09
Oh my God another idiot on vacation in " La La " land :oops:

2 live
19-08-2005, 09:03
lol...nopoet........the 405 meister lmao

Swervin_Mervin
19-08-2005, 10:18
The Activa is a ****ing awesome handling car guys. However, it's still bigger than the willy and that's what counts against it.

It might outhandle a lot of supposedly superior cars though.

u33db
19-08-2005, 10:31
Depends what you mean by saying "it's still bigger than the willy and that's what counts against it". Bigger cars are always more stable and that gives the driver greater confidence. However, there no way a xantia handles as well as a willy i'll agree...

Swervin_Mervin
19-08-2005, 10:34
Well at a given speed it is carrying more weight in to a corner, so it would have to be working X times harder to get round the corner as quickly as a smaller, lighter car.

Hence why shitboxes like the Trophy can stay with big cars like the M6 on tight twisty roads.

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 10:45
Dont forgt handling does not mean speed. Handling is just the characteristics of what the car does in a given circumstances.

And remember different drivers will prefere a different handling characteristic. Ie the 'handling' of a car is subjective. For example M Schumacher likes a very oversteering car but Johnny Herbert likes a neutral to slight ondersteer in his car. Hence in 1995 when they were both at Benneton Herbert found it initially hard to drive the car designed for Schumacher. To Schumacher the car handled well. To Herbert it handled badly.

u33db
19-08-2005, 10:47
There not that much heavier in reality...about 2/300 kilos IIRC...longer wheelbase too. Then theres also track width, i cant say for sure but i'd expect it to be equal or larger to the williams in the same way a megane is (similar cars)...i can guarantee a lot of R19 16v will argue about handling in the same respect...

Swervin_Mervin
19-08-2005, 10:52
It's about 400kgs.

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 10:55
I do actually have a friend who has a Xantia and he swears its a great car. Ive not heard anything bad about them.

J o n
19-08-2005, 11:00
you have friends!? :lol:

u33db
19-08-2005, 11:02
400kg difference isn't that much...if its actually that amount (is that gross weight or kerb 'merv?). Factor in passenger weight/fuel load etc and the gap is probably very little in reality...IMO.

Swervin_Mervin
19-08-2005, 11:03
Kerb. 1420 plays 977.

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 11:15
you have friends!? :lol:


Very constructive. Really added something missing to the disscussion.


Well done

Zollo
19-08-2005, 11:22
So we're agreed then, the Xantia doesn't handle as well as a Williams?!

I can think of quite a few other manufacturers that have body-roll eliminating systems. Mercedes and BMW, for instance, use them now, but they're not being voted the best handling cars of the moment, just as the Xantia wasn't at the time. As Stromba said, there's more to handling and dynamic ability than simply measuring bodyroll.

Without having tried one, I can't say they're rubbish. I can imagine they're pretty impressive to drive with the lack of body roll in fact. May be something of a novelty though.

J o n
19-08-2005, 11:31
you have friends!? :lol:


blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


bhaaaaaaah

:lol:

u33db
19-08-2005, 11:39
Kerb. 1420 plays 977.

Cough. New plays old.

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 12:29
you have friends!? :lol:


blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


bhaaaaaaah

:lol:


Well done :roll:

Andyvalver
19-08-2005, 12:38
What you on about, 400kg is shit loads more. Nearly 1/2 a ton :shock:

J o n
19-08-2005, 12:42
you have friends!? :lol:


blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


bhaaaaaaah

:lol:


blah blah

sorry, am I annoying you? :lol:

anyway, back on topic and 400kg's is a huge difference... power to weight!!!

Tommo
19-08-2005, 12:47
Is weight really an issue when it comes to handling??

A Skyline R34 weighs 1560kg, and that's one of the best handling cars on the planet!

Zollo
19-08-2005, 12:51
anyway, back on topic and 400kg's is a huge difference... power to weight!!!

We're talking handling, not quarter miling Jesus :roll: :wink: . Power has not very much to do with handling, so power to weight can be poo poo'd!

To a certain extent, weighty cars can be made to handle very well, as Tommo points out. However, weight is a major set back in making a car handle, and all other things be equal, the heavier car the worse the handling car.

u33db
19-08-2005, 12:53
Is weight really an issue when it comes to handling??

A Skyline R34 weighs 1560kg, and that's one of the best handling cars on the planet!

Well its an issue but not that big an issue which is what i'm saying...it's all in the setup...i.e. like the skyline you mentioned. As i was saying, front track is probably equal or larger to the willy on the xantia, wheel base is longer, 400kg (and i don't think its that in reality) isn't going to make much of an impact...

J o n
19-08-2005, 12:54
oh yeah, what we talking about again? lol

we can talk about this all day, but there's no chance a Xantia would be able to even live with a Williams round any sort of bends imo... it's a ****ing family barge ffs. pmsl

u33db
19-08-2005, 12:56
oh yeah, what we talking about again? lol

we can talk about this all day, but there's no chance a Xantia would be able to even live with a Williams round any sort of bends imo... it's a ****ing family barge ffs. pmsl

Naive viewpoint IMO.

By that reasoning a R1916v (similar in size to a xantia) would struggle against a willy round bends but they don't do they? And also by that reasoning touring cars would be dropped in favour of hot hatches as apparently smaller is alway better?

Tommo
19-08-2005, 13:08
oh yeah, what we talking about again? lol

we can talk about this all day, but there's no chance a Xantia would be able to even live with a Williams round any sort of bends imo... it's a ****ing family barge ffs. pmsl

Hmmm depends what type of bends we're talkin about here. A narrow country lane with tight bends etc. I agree a Williams would piss all over a xantia with it's razor sharp handling and torquey engine, but fast long sweeping bends I think they would be very similar imo, those xantias do handle extremely well, I was quite surprised when I went out in one a few years back...

J o n
19-08-2005, 13:20
oh yeah, what we talking about again? lol

we can talk about this all day, but there's no chance a Xantia would be able to even live with a Williams round any sort of bends imo... it's a ****ing family barge ffs. pmsl

Naive viewpoint IMO.

By that reasoning a R1916v (similar in size to a xantia) would struggle against a willy round bends but they don't do they? And also by that reasoning touring cars would be dropped in favour of hot hatches as apparently smaller is alway better?

if these cars handle so well and supposedly better than the Williams we would not hear the end of it from motoring press and the like, but as this isn't the case they cant be that great surely?
Touring cars are not hot hatches tho mate, hot hatches are hot hatches and subsequently have their own series :roll:

Swervin_Mervin
19-08-2005, 13:23
Not necessarily true John. I mean the valver is pretty lost in motring journalism histry yet on it's own merits ot's one of the best hot hatches ever.

The Xsara VTS is very very good but never gets a look in because it's a Xsara and not a 306.

I wouldn't expect on tight roads that teh Xantia would be as good, BUT on sweeping roads it would be well up there. Remeber it has teh 2L Turbo lump in it so has a shedload of torque.

u33db
19-08-2005, 13:36
John, i'd go over to Retro-renault and ask their opinions on R1916v v willy handling!

That aside though, they've the same engine as a valver, ffs gave the willy its superior handling and are only slightly heavier so its safe to say they perform comparitively against the willy (as we know the valver does). If a 19 16v can do that with its power disadvantage, i'd say its reasonably to assume a xantia (similar size) can will 10bhp more and more torque, don't you think.

No-ones saying the willy isn't the best here...but step up a class...

J o n
19-08-2005, 13:43
fair enough, I just really cant see it... I'd like to see this in action. I know the R19's handle very well, but again, didn't feel as grippy or composed in the bends as the Williams... i'd say that's a pretty noticable difference with me being an average driver and not a race driver. I'm not doubting the fact that these cars handle well, but I'd like to see this with my own eyes. Someone get a Xantia on the track day, I'll happily use my car to see this theory proven

Enid
19-08-2005, 13:46
fair enough, I just really cant see it... I'd like to see this in action. I know the R19's handle very well, but again, didn't feel as grippy or composed in the bends as the Williams... i'd say that's a pretty noticable difference with me being an average driver and not a race driver. I'm not doubting the fact that these cars handle well, but I'd like to see this with my own eyes. Someone get a Xantia on the track day, I'll happily use my car to see this theory proven

I know what you mean, it seems unbelievable that a xantia could handle remotely well at all, I don't know i've never been in one, maybe we just don't want to believe it.

Andyvalver
19-08-2005, 13:50
Here guys. No poet has a new thread trying to find out about the clio williams he slated. Go tell him how good they are..... :wink:

http://www.performancegti.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3491

Zollo
19-08-2005, 13:53
What's all this talk of same engines and torque and power coming from? Apart from giving a few more options for the chassis, power doesn't really relate to handling.

Secondly, the reason we haven't heard much about the Xantia is because there is more to handling than outright grip and body roll. I'd guess that the steering isn't that sweet compared with the best, the chassis runs out of ideas when you want adjustability, and when the roads get bumpy, the damping starts to cry for help.

The thing that defines a good drivers car is how much driver enjoyment and thrills it provides. I doubt very much the Xantia could be provoked into a perfectly controllable 4-wheeled drift. I would wager when you push its limits, it'll just push its nose wide and understeer into a bush. I reckon you wouldn't be able to tell when it is starting to go ditch hunting, because the level of feedback isn't all that great. Not compared with a Williams neccessarily, but compared with all the best drivers car.

That is why the Xantia may be able to go round a corner fast and flat, but you've never heard of it.

:D

u33db
19-08-2005, 13:55
Trouble is, the xantia does't have the same following as the williams so it'll be hard to find one in decent condition for a comparision...more so as they're a citreon!

re the handling issue, my old megane hatch was of comparable size and handled very well. Granted it was lowered ever so slightly but that would only place it on par with an R19 valver (which effectively the chassis was) and a xantia. Compared to my old willy tracked valver it felt very good though...slight edge perhaps on sweeping bends, slightly loosing ouit on the tighter stuff but overall v good considering the size...

J o n
19-08-2005, 13:55
well when the guy also mentioned Prelude in the same sentense he lost all credibility with me i'm affraid, my mate had one and there's no ****ing way they handle that well, my XR2 would have pissed all over one

Enid
19-08-2005, 13:55
What's all this talk of same engines and torque and power coming from? Apart from giving a few more options for the chassis, power doesn't really relate to handling.

Secondly, the reason we haven't heard much about the Xantia is because there is more to handling than outright grip and body roll. I'd guess that the steering isn't that sweet compared with the best, the chassis runs out of ideas when you want adjustability, and when the roads get bumpy, the damping starts to cry for help.

The thing that defines a good drivers car is how much driver enjoyment and thrills it provides. I doubt very much the Xantia could be provoked into a perfectly controllable 4-wheeled drift. I would wager when you push its limits, it'll just push its nose wide and understeer into a bush. I reckon you wouldn't be able to tell when it is starting to go ditch hunting, because the level of feedback isn't all that great. Not compared with a Williams neccessarily, but compared with all the best drivers car.

That is why the Xantia may be able to go round a corner fast and flat, but you've never heard of it.

:D

Good point well made :D

Jamie.
19-08-2005, 13:59
u copy and paste that from somewhere zollo? it is written very well lol :wink:

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 14:15
you have friends!? :lol:


blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


bhaaaaaaah

:lol:


blah blah

sorry, am I annoying you? :lol:

anyway, back on topic and 400kg's is a huge difference... power to weight!!!


No, but i dare you to do that to my face at Donnington :wink:

J o n
19-08-2005, 14:19
i'll treat you with the respect you deserve at Donnington, so if your being a prick you will be treated accordingly. Like I said, what you going to do about it? Knock me out? Do it mate, I dare you.

Enid
19-08-2005, 14:23
ooooh stop teasing each other you two :P

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 14:23
Id love you to treat me like a prick at donnigton. Would make my day. :D


Think we may well see if your talks as strong as your walk there. :wink:

J o n
19-08-2005, 14:31
look Stromba, I couldn't give a toss about you or your sad pathetic vendetta ridden life, your the one with the problem giving it the big talk on the internet, so if your going to do something at Donnington by all means do it. Dont for one second think i'm intimidated by you, I have met you remember and a big lad you may be, but you talk a lot of shit and are quiet and shy in person. I'm not going to be the one starting anything, but if you wanna come and have a go at me do it, I couldn't give a ****. If you give me shit, your not big enough or hard enough to scare me into not giving it back. You seriously think you can walk around in life dishing it out and no one will say anything to you? LOL

Zollo
19-08-2005, 14:34
Please divert to PM's now guys! :D

....or someone get deleting posts please :?

J o n
19-08-2005, 14:43
sorry to all the rest of you, I just dont have time for people that think they can bully me or anyone else.

Enid
19-08-2005, 14:47
sorry to all the rest of you, I just dont have time for people that think they can bully me or anyone else.

The Jesus,

You don't like Rob and Rob doesn't like you, that seems pretty clear. Why don't you just ignore him if he's annoying you, the more you bite the worse it gets, the same can be said for you annoying rob. Just a thought, thats what I do to people I don't like, eventually they get fed up and leave me alone.

Andyvalver
19-08-2005, 14:49
Why dont you add each other to msn :D ...and become friends :shock:

J o n
19-08-2005, 15:00
see what your saying Enid and agree, but it's difficult when someone been a **** to your mates. He goes out of his way to try and harm people's reputations and business because of personal problems and issues or can nobody else see this? I can quite happily collate the proof once again if anyone doubts this?

J o n
19-08-2005, 15:02
Why dont you add each other to msn :D ...and become friends :shock:

unlikely, I blocked him when he started insulting BenR and his tuning credability and wouldn't shut up about it. he goes to far, you lot may be affraid of saying something, i'm not and wont stand for it.

anyway, back onto the best handling car of all time, the Xantia :lol:

Andyvalver
19-08-2005, 15:02
"I can quite happily collate the proof once again if anyone doubts this?"

Please dont mate. It just causes shit :(

Enid
19-08-2005, 15:04
see what your saying Enid and agree, but it's difficult when someone been a **** to your mates. He goes out of his way to try and harm people's reputations and business because of personal problems and issues or can nobody else see this? I can quite happily collate the proof once again if anyone doubts this?

No don't bother its not going to make things any better is it, I dont have a problem with either of you I think your both sound helpfull and interesting people, but the constant bickering does begin to grate after a while, your both as bad as each other, just leave each other alone then you won't end up with all the backchat all the time :D

Please....... :D

u33db
19-08-2005, 15:21
I think you should both calm the beans a bit TBH.

You're both entitled to voice your opinions and to agree or disagree with each other. If some of the comments or homour comes accross badly i think you should agree to disagree...after all this is meant to be a club for everyone, not just "mates", so its inevitable some things won't meet with either of your approval.

As for the comment Stromba made about BenR which seem to be grating, i'm sure readers on here are able to weigh up whats right and wrong and i'm sure Ben will speak up in his own defence. This goes for poeple on the other side of the fence which have written unfavourable things about HP/BB/K-tec etc...which there have been...

Tommo
19-08-2005, 15:21
What's all this talk of same engines and torque and power coming from? Apart from giving a few more options for the chassis, power doesn't really relate to handling.

Secondly, the reason we haven't heard much about the Xantia is because there is more to handling than outright grip and body roll. I'd guess that the steering isn't that sweet compared with the best, the chassis runs out of ideas when you want adjustability, and when the roads get bumpy, the damping starts to cry for help.

The thing that defines a good drivers car is how much driver enjoyment and thrills it provides. I doubt very much the Xantia could be provoked into a perfectly controllable 4-wheeled drift. I would wager when you push its limits, it'll just push its nose wide and understeer into a bush. I reckon you wouldn't be able to tell when it is starting to go ditch hunting, because the level of feedback isn't all that great. Not compared with a Williams neccessarily, but compared with all the best drivers car.

That is why the Xantia may be able to go round a corner fast and flat, but you've never heard of it.

:D

I think torque is a big factor when talking about handling. Take the Williams for example, you don't have to rev the shit out of it to make quick progression through a twisty road, and there is always power there coming out of a bend. My old 306 S16 had a very narrow power band so I always had to keep at 5000rpm upwards to keep it in the power band, and although a very good handling car, it wasn't as easy to drive fast through a twisty road as the Williams...

Andyvalver
19-08-2005, 15:35
Ive been upsetting mr no poet on the forum. Thin i won :D

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 15:41
What's all this talk of same engines and torque and power coming from? Apart from giving a few more options for the chassis, power doesn't really relate to handling.

Secondly, the reason we haven't heard much about the Xantia is because there is more to handling than outright grip and body roll. I'd guess that the steering isn't that sweet compared with the best, the chassis runs out of ideas when you want adjustability, and when the roads get bumpy, the damping starts to cry for help.

The thing that defines a good drivers car is how much driver enjoyment and thrills it provides. I doubt very much the Xantia could be provoked into a perfectly controllable 4-wheeled drift. I would wager when you push its limits, it'll just push its nose wide and understeer into a bush. I reckon you wouldn't be able to tell when it is starting to go ditch hunting, because the level of feedback isn't all that great. Not compared with a Williams neccessarily, but compared with all the best drivers car.

That is why the Xantia may be able to go round a corner fast and flat, but you've never heard of it.

:D


Post of the year so far. :D

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 15:43
look Stromba, Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blah blah blah blah blah blah blahblahblahLOL

:wink:

Zollo
19-08-2005, 16:26
I think torque is a big factor when talking about handling. Take the Williams for example, you don't have to rev the shit out of it to make quick progression through a twisty road, and there is always power there coming out of a bend. My old 306 S16 had a very narrow power band so I always had to keep at 5000rpm upwards to keep it in the power band, and although a very good handling car, it wasn't as easy to drive fast through a twisty road as the Williams...

An engine's performance (torque, gearing etc.) has a lot do to with how good a car is. It improves the effectiveness of a cars ground covering ability, makes the car more enjoyable to drive, and gives the driver more options. It makes a better drivers car.

But an engine's torque doesn't make a car handle better IMO. An ITR has bugger all torque and a very narrow power band, but that doesn't detract from making it one of the best handling FWD cars.

NickFr
19-08-2005, 16:39
I have nearly wet myself reading this thread, one because of the quite unbelievable claims of Mr Xantia and two because of the playground antics of you KS. I genuinely want to like you and some of your posts have had me in stitches.....but threatening to beat people up and seek revenge etc....etc....leave it out. There is no place for this kind of attitude, please for the sake of my sanity, learn to conduct yourself with some dignity. Playing the perscuted victim all the time is wearing thin, there is not one person that can't admit they haved laughed at some of your posts but in equal measure have cringed when you with apparently no regard for the other persons business or feelings have launched into mind numbing tirades......this is unacceptable, It appears you take each banning as a chance to recharge your batteries and begin again :roll:

No-one has any vendetta to get you banned...that appears to be your lifelong mission WHY....WHY....WHY....

Tommo
19-08-2005, 16:40
I think torque is a big factor when talking about handling. Take the Williams for example, you don't have to rev the shit out of it to make quick progression through a twisty road, and there is always power there coming out of a bend. My old 306 S16 had a very narrow power band so I always had to keep at 5000rpm upwards to keep it in the power band, and although a very good handling car, it wasn't as easy to drive fast through a twisty road as the Williams...

An engine's performance (torque, gearing etc.) has a lot do to with how good a car is. It improves the effectiveness of a cars ground covering ability, makes the car more enjoyable to drive, and gives the driver more options. It makes a better drivers car.

But an engine's torque doesn't make a car handle better IMO. An ITR has bugger all torque and a very narrow power band, but that doesn't detract from making it one of the best handling FWD cars.

A bit unfair using the ITR as an example as these have an LSD as standard. Put one on a Williams and pretty much nothing will touch it on a B-road. Fair point about the torque tho.... :wink:

How did we get onto this anyway, thought we were talking about the xantia handling better then the williams.... :lol:

Zollo
19-08-2005, 17:00
Ive been upsetting mr no poet on the forum. Thin i won :D

He's ignoring me :( :roll:

Craig
19-08-2005, 17:15
nopoet is the guy who claimed his 406 could eat scoobies etc, then we went to pod with him and battered him on the way down, and up the strip, even my mates 172 in standard trim did as well!

NickFr
19-08-2005, 17:32
Well, we should not taunt this quite obviously delusional fella.....bless, joking aside which 406 model was he referring to???

KingStromba
19-08-2005, 17:46
I have nearly wet myself reading this thread, one because of the quite unbelievable claims of Mr Xantia and two because of the playground antics of you KS. I genuinely want to like you and some of your posts have had me in stitches.....but threatening to beat people up and seek revenge etc....etc....leave it out. There is no place for this kind of attitude, please for the sake of my sanity, learn to conduct yourself with some dignity. Playing the perscuted victim all the time is wearing thin, there is not one person that can't admit they haved laughed at some of your posts but in equal measure have cringed when you with apparently no regard for the other persons business or feelings have launched into mind numbing tirades......this is unacceptable, It appears you take each banning as a chance to recharge your batteries and begin again :roll:

No-one has any vendetta to get you banned...that appears to be your lifelong mission WHY....WHY....WHY....


Ive lost faith that this club is a true owners club now Nick. Why i can manage to post on other car forums for years without any trouble atall, say alot about my real attitude, and alot about certain other people. If i get banned i get banned. There are 1000 other car forums. Ill get over it.

NickFr
19-08-2005, 18:47
Well, don't be so inflammatory, I know you have strong feelings on certain subjects....quite rightly so...this isn't about being a true owners club it's about interacting with other users......why get banned, just to prove a point....you are very reactionary, this on-going feud with Jesus is just daft, all I am saying is a little less throttle and a bit more brake is needed sometimes.....I missed meeting any of you in person....and TBH you were one of the top guys on my list along with many others such as Jesus I was looking forward to saying hi to...indulge an old man and be nice, and mean it!!

Nobody has a thicker skin than me, but this is really making me feel low, after 3 months of not being able to access this site, I return to find it's dominated by some people taking some pretty low blows :?

This could not just be a good site, it could be one of the best, it's up to all of us...myself included :wink:

richy
19-08-2005, 21:10
for the sake of the club will u lot stop arguing, u slated cliosport for the petty arguing on there but do the same here, stromba and jesus if u want to slate each other even if its just banter in your eyes do it elsewere like msn, i dont laugh when i read the crap u put, its boring to read seeing the same petty arguing over and over, for the time u was both banned it was quiet and there was no problems on here from what i remember.
please if u want to carry on take it elsewere, its not just mk1 clio owners who read this.

stromba how can u loose faith in this being a true owners club? do u expect everyone to have 100% mint orginal clios? that will never happen, if u think thats how it should be then u are going to be in a lonely club!
how do u mean by TRUE owners club ?

i dont go on here as much now, most times i do i seem to see the same petty arguing, we did the anglesey trip and had the likes of zollo and jan and a few others who came from southampton/london etc (nuts if ya ask me lol) and had a great club/track day, that for me is what the club is about which is why when i see this crap i feel its a let down in the club, proberly the only one!

FATBOY
19-08-2005, 21:16
sorry guys! if u dont wanna play properly then ive no other option than to lock! sorry!