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View Full Version : Looking at buying a williams!



Chras
20-03-2012, 13:18
Found this one located in a local garage.

Anyone on here owned it or can give me any pointers? :)

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180830318420&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:GB:1123

fabulicious
20-03-2012, 13:49
[quote="Chras"]or can give me any pointers? :)]

go for a drive in it. if you like it buy it! :)

Chras
20-03-2012, 14:06
[quote=Chras]or can give me any pointers? :)]

go for a drive in it. if you like it buy it! :)


I've driven a clio williams before and fell in love with it instantly! Just looking out for anything especially when I go and buy it.

e.g. I drive a citroen c2 at the moment and on the VTS model, the manifold bolts often sheer off and cause the mani to whistle.

fabulicious
20-03-2012, 14:12
ah ok i see..
well i could spend all day picking out potential mechanical faults with the car but in all honesty by the time i finish you would not even think of going to buy it :lol:

this will help
http://williamsclio.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25276&sid=0dbaf5f24cd16c1d62cb2925c01fb35f

Coops
20-03-2012, 14:49
all I will say on that particular one is make sure its absolutely mint, its priced quite high imo for the current market

Chras
20-03-2012, 15:11
Perfect link!


And I am looking at knocking the price down a bit, will be inspecting it closely and definitely using the guide above as a reference.


Personally, I think I could get down to atleast 3k.

Got my C2 to part ex with, which is worth £3,200 from webuyany - and parkers says around £3,500. :)

fabulicious
20-03-2012, 15:55
without being too picky you could say to him that the standard air box is missing and the speedlines need the lip polished..but their minor points. otherwise the rest of the car seems straight and true.

MatBrown
20-03-2012, 17:21
Airbox is in the boot.

fabulicious
20-03-2012, 18:30
Airbox is in the boot.

Heavily modified that one so :lol:

Chras
20-03-2012, 19:11
you don't need to worry about heatsoak as much if the airbox is in the boot, right?


Ideally I'd like to buy one off this forum as atleast I'd know it'd been looked after :P

glyn211269
20-03-2012, 20:20
Its still pretty damn pricy for a 2 isn't it???

westy94
20-03-2012, 20:46
i agree if it was a 3 would prob be worth it but a 2 would need to be mint

fabulicious
20-03-2012, 20:47
Do parkers distinguish between the phases?

will.i.am.s2
20-03-2012, 21:49
That one isnt 4k's worth....the rust on the arch would bug me at that money and the general tatty look of it. If you are looking to spend that money you can do better i think :D

glyn211269
20-03-2012, 22:01
agreed, too tatty for £4000, neds to be friggin mint for that money including the engine bay

will.i.am.s2
20-03-2012, 22:05
also wrong rear wiper and i can see red paint on the rear brakes to nit pick at it. Drivers seat also looks like its seen a lot of arse :lol:

will.i.am.s2
20-03-2012, 22:08
too right mate its priced exactly double what its worth imo. I walked away from one which was in the same condition as that when i bought mine and it was only up for £1500 with 6k more miles than this one....i wouldnt even waste my time looking at it

fabulicious
20-03-2012, 22:47
One common mis-conception with car owners is we always seem to think that our cars are worth more than they actually are.
The "market" price of a Williams can be found in dealer hand books or valuations such as parkers. They can also be found on inland revenue sites where import duty is to be paid on a vehicle.
AFAIK, any of these 3 sources do not differenciate in the market value of a Williams 1,2 or 3.
The only people that "think" a Williams 1 or 3 or 2 have different market values are so called enthusiasts.
Any one of the phases may be more desirable "in your opinion" than the other, but the facts remain that in todays market they all have equal value.
So lets not jump ahead of ourselves and think for one minute a phase 1 or 3 is worth more than a phase 2 because it aint.
The truth of the matter is, for a true enthusiast the best you can hope for today is finding a "Williams" that has the least amount of rust on it with a strong engine and gearbox. The rest is child's play.

Daz.
21-03-2012, 00:41
Don't like that - something not right with it.

Had a boot at some point for a start....

will.i.am.s2
21-03-2012, 00:50
One common mis-conception with car owners is we always seem to think that our cars are worth more than they actually are.
The "market" price of a Williams can be found in dealer hand books or valuations such as parkers. They can also be found on inland revenue sites where import duty is to be paid on a vehicle.
AFAIK, any of these 3 sources do not differenciate in the market value of a Williams 1,2 or 3.
The only people that "think" a Williams 1 or 3 or 2 have different market values are so called enthusiasts.
Any one of the phases may be more desirable "in your opinion" than the other, but the facts remain that in todays market they all have equal value.
So lets not jump ahead of ourselves and think for one minute a phase 1 or 3 is worth more than a phase 2 because it aint.
The truth of the matter is, for a true enthusiast the best you can hope for today is finding a "Williams" that has the least amount of rust on it with a strong engine and gearbox. The rest is child's play.

+1 Well said. A Williams is a Williams.

I didnt know that about using inland revenue sites as a valuation guide either, interesting stuff 8)

TooSkive
21-03-2012, 13:07
I completely disagree, a Williams 1 is worth more than the others for the simple fact it comes with a plaque. To Joe Average maybe they don't know, care or realise, but as these cars are knocking on for 20 years old they will mainly be bought by enthusiasts and enthusiasts who know the cars will desire a 1 over a 2 or 3.

Daz.
21-03-2012, 13:15
The that is worth the most these days is the one in the best condition simple as that.

Years ago the 1,2,3 divide was a factor but there are so few actual decent efforts out there I think it's irrelevant now.

Most are shitters or rotboxes!

If a perfect Williams 1 and a perfect Williams 3 were sat outside my house and I had to buy one of them then it would be the Williams 1 simply because I want one without a sunroof and prefer 449.

Anyone who gives up on a good example these days because it's not the right 'number' is an idiot!

Chras
21-03-2012, 16:54
I'd happily take either, ideally a 1 or 2 though just because I don't like sunroofs.

As far rotbox goes, I'm giving myself a £3,000 budget for a williams. So I would buy £1,000 williams and spend £2,000 getting it back to it's glory.

Only thing I'd really want is a solid engine.

TooSkive
21-03-2012, 17:03
I'd look for a solid body over an engine tbh, it's cheaper to replace the engine than repair the shell. Looking upwards of £2k for just paint alone from a reputable car restoration place, that's not including replacing all the rotten metal.

Daz.
21-03-2012, 17:33
You WILL NOT get a rot box back to health with 2k.

Not a chance.

To be honest if I was buying another in the future I'd be budgeting 5k for the car and another 2-3k to get it perfect.

TooSkive
21-03-2012, 17:49
As Daz has said, no chance for £2k unfortunately. More like £4k+ and that's cutting corners.

andyleep
22-03-2012, 20:25
I may be selling my willy 2........

Has an accessory sunroof fitted but the money you have could sort that easily. Under 80k on the clock, very good arches......

2 live
22-03-2012, 21:54
As Daz has said, no chance for £2k unfortunately. More like £4k+ and that's cutting corners.

gotta agree here. 2k rebuild will need redoing in about 12 months. 4k in 2-3 years. ask all those that have had arches done. within 6-12 months, most have had the rust come back, and thats with pricy repairs done. if i had to restore one, itd be getting stripped to bare shell, acid dipping and starting from there. anything other than this is a half arsed attempt imho. and hardly worth doing if its done to keep.

TooSkive
23-03-2012, 09:22
Entirely depends on how you look after the car as to how long repair work will last, it's idiotic to assume a £4k+ restoration will only last 2-3 years. You wont get a shed of a Williams 'mint' for that money, but it will be better than most of the cars on here and it will easily last the cars lifetime if it's not used daily and left out to the elements. There's no limit to what money you can throw at these cars really, all depends on how far you are willing to go. A lot of the parts can still be bought from Renault, things like window and door rubbers etc, but they cost an absolute fortune.

fabulicious
23-03-2012, 11:33
I see it as being either preservation, restoration or leave as is.

Restoration
If your looking at sheds most likely its restoration. Most of the above comments have highlighted the potential costs to someone out of the trade who needs to rely on restoration guru's to get it done correctly and that is big money on any vintage/classic. Not sure if any have been down that path with a Williams?

Preservation.
This is all about finding the cleanest example you can find and renewing worn out parts, cleaning unsightly rust spots etc. Still costly but shopping around and finding quality used spares can cut costs dramatically.
Keep close to a "knowledged" and "informed" community and you should be able to get it right without too much headache and cost. This can be tricky though as fitting "new parts" can look daft to a partly worn looking car and being supplied parts that do not fit or are the wrong colour and it starts to go pear shapped.

Leave as is.
Get it mechanically sound/fit and drive the nuts off it!

Which ever route you decide to take if you spread the project over a number of years the cost's do not seem as daunting. If it took seven years at 1K per annum well that's justifiable enough for most I imagine. But do not exspect to get your money back on anything you put into them today or maybe even tomorrow because the market is still flooded with them and tbh in my opinion I cannot ever see in my lifetime the Williams being ever worth more than 10K.

TooSkive
23-03-2012, 11:43
I see it as being either preservation, restoration or leave as is.

Restoration
If your looking at sheds most likely its restoration. Most of the above comments have highlighted the potential costs to someone out of the trade who needs to rely on restoration guru's to get it done correctly and that is big money on any vintage/classic. Not sure if any have been down that path with a Williams?

Preservation.
This is all about finding the cleanest example you can find and renewing worn out parts, cleaning unsightly rust spots etc. Still costly but shopping around and finding quality used spares can cut costs dramatically.
Keep close to a "knowledged" and "informed" community and you should be able to get it right without too much headache and cost. This can be tricky though as fitting "new parts" can look daft to a partly worn looking car and being supplied parts that do not fit or are the wrong colour and it starts to go pear shapped.

Leave as is.
Get it mechanically sound/fit and drive the nuts off it!

Which ever route you decide to take if you spread the project over a number of years the cost's do not seem as daunting. If it took seven years at 1K per annum well that's justifiable enough for most I imagine. But do not exspect to get your money back on anything you put into them today or maybe even tomorrow because the market is still flooded with them and tbh in my opinion I cannot ever see in my lifetime the Williams being ever worth more than 10K.

Exactly this, I've never heard of anyone acid dipping and then galvanising one simply because in this day and age it's not worth spending it on a car that's not going to be used as a daily driver. If it was, there's little point going that far as it will get stone chipped etc which to most is a waste of time and money.

They are worth spending the money on to keep them, because as you say, there's no profit to be had in restoring one and selling it on... unless of course you can do it all yourself, but even then, new door rubbers are over £120+VAT alone.