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andyleep
09-03-2012, 15:10
Ive read on here before about problems people have after fitting genuine oil filters?! I always use genuine, but was looking for input from people on their past experiences. What filter you use, why and any problems you have ever had with others

snowman
09-03-2012, 15:20
Ive got a Champion F136 fitted

diditno
09-03-2012, 21:52
I use the genuine enable ones rather than pattern parts. They seem to be narrower and therefore easier to fit as they give you a little more access.

16v_paddy
10-03-2012, 01:49
Ive got a Champion F136 fitted

Same here, I thought the genuine filters had been discontinued & replaced with bigger ones & the champion F136 is the closest to the original item :?:

midge
10-03-2012, 11:44
the core on the new genuine item is incorrect, champion F136 is correct (available in halfords)

Every one owes Stromba for that bit of information, he spent age's going through it all!

andyleep
10-03-2012, 13:42
Why is the core incorrect?

fabulicious
10-03-2012, 15:06
Would like to know also what the deal is on the core. I go to Renault, give them a Vin and they give me an oil filter. Simple really.

Yanoo_
10-03-2012, 15:15
What's wrong with the genuine filters? :roll: I always use MANN, Champion F136 or Purflux filters, these ones give higher oil pressure. AFAIK Purflux is the genuine filter.

16v_paddy
10-03-2012, 15:18
Would like to know also what the deal is on the core. I go to Renault, give them a Vin and they give me an oil filter. Simple really.

Renault discontinued the original filter & replaced it with a different one

stevie_b
10-03-2012, 15:20
The Halfords ones are larger than OE which can make it a pain to fit as it is not easy to squeeze it past the subframe to get it where it needs to go! Except on the track car where I have loads of clearance so can go large! I have a Renault Purflux LS218 on the Williams, which is very low profile and easy to get in there. I also have a Champion F103 in the box in the workshop, which I can only imagine I bought for the Williams but above people are saying it should be the F136, so perhaps I got the wrong one (or I bought it for a different car and just stored it with the Willy stuff incorrectly)?

jock
10-03-2012, 15:57
Think its the smaller size mesh in the new filter reduces the flow and therefore less oil pressure Like a clogged filter gets bypassed?

will.i.am.s2
10-03-2012, 16:11
Ive just bought a Mann oil filter for mine was wondering how hard it is to change? Is there a special method for getting the old one off? It looks awkward at best :)

diditno
10-03-2012, 16:25
The easiest way is to take he front cross member off and Evan the rad forward, but you still need the arms of a 6 year phillipino boy to get in there to change in

fabulicious
10-03-2012, 16:31
Lads, if it makes any difference whatsoever ive noticed f-all difference in oil pressures if the dial in the cabin is to be believed when using the filters renault have supplied me in recent years.
If you ask me the oil type would have a greater baring on pressures.

PC-PLOD
11-03-2012, 11:16
Changing an oil filter is not difficult extend the grips on an oil filter wrench and its a 10 min job

sideways danny
11-03-2012, 14:38
I use genuine. Same filter as a 172/182/225.....every other F block engine. They work perfectly on those, and the engines really aren't much different.

claireharrison
11-03-2012, 15:35
Right, just to be clear on this:

I noticed a pressure drop when using a genuine renault filter one day during an oil change. So i checked the part number and saw that the genuine mann filter i had removed had a different part number to the genuine filter i had put on. I put the old filter back on and the pressure went back to normal.

So i phoned renault and their confirmed the old williams oil filter had been superseded by a new non-specific part oil filter that was designed to fit on many different engines. These filters filt on cars from the 1.2s to the diesels to the vans. There is no way these engine all have the same requirements for oil flow and filtration. Renault have done this to save money.

So phoned the manufacturer mann, with both part numbers and they confirmed both the pore size inside the filter and the pressure relief valve were different between the two genuine renault filters (the old one and the new one).

I then email mann for a detailed analysis of the possible effects this could have on an engine and they confirmed that the new filter could create lower oil flow (and hence pressure) due to the nature of the pore size and the release valve. They sent me the details of both filters (pore size and relief valve pressure)

I then emailed as many as 15 manufacturers of oil filters with the pore size and relief valve pressure supplied to me by mann from the old renault filter. Of the responses i got (10 i think) only the champion f136 filter was almost identical. Most of the others were similar to the new genuine renault filter, with a potentially detrimental relief valve pressure and pore size.

So what i did next was buy 7 popular brand oil filters for the clio williams, and i tested them back to back, on the same engine, with the same engine oil using a mechanical gauge. I took 3 reading, calculated a standard deviation and performed a t test to statistically PROVE (to a p value of 0.01) that only the champion filter gave statistically the same oil pressure as the original renault mann filter.

The genuine renault filters physically fit fine and filter the oil, But their internal structure is not as the original filters. Neither are most of the other off the shelf non-genuine items including the pureflux ones from GSF.

Personally i dont care if you read this and ignore it because you think you know best. But as far as i am aware, i am the only person to test, in a scientifically valid way, using proper statistical analysis, the filtering ability of these filters.

Unless you have done the same, your opinion is based on nothing but guesswork and anecdote.

Those of you who are interested, i am glad i could help save the longevity of your engine.

Since i published an article on my findings (probably around 5 years ago) i have had numerous people from many countries contact me to tell me they have followed my advice and returned low oil pressure to normal by changing the filter.

Jaff
11-03-2012, 15:51
how much of a diffrence are we talking? pressure wise

claireharrison
11-03-2012, 16:28
Mine goes from book pressure, 3.5 bar at 3k at 80 degrees to about 2 bar.

So the new genuine renault filters drop the pressure on my engine about 1.5 bar.

Jaff
11-03-2012, 16:41
thats fair enough then. for a second i thought you were being incredibly anal but 1.5 bar is a fair drop in pressure

fabulicious
11-03-2012, 17:09
Mr science man, what are the minimum and maximum pressures allowed by the manufacturer's tolerances?

If I understand it correctly, excessive oil pressure may indicate a blocked filter, blocked oil gallery or the wrong grade of oil. Low oil pressure indicates worn bearings on the crank shaft or a broken oil pump.

Your tests were conducted on 1 engine and you find the result conclusive enough to splurt out that you know better than everyone else?
Have you published your findings in any trade journal perhaps?

Another day off from the cuckoo house if you ask me.

andyleep
11-03-2012, 18:32
In an ideal world, what should the pressure be, at idle, for a warm engine?

claireharrison
11-03-2012, 18:41
In an ideal world, what should the pressure be, at idle, for a warm engine?

On a mechanical gauge, 3.5 bar,. at 80 degrees oil temp, with 10w40 semi synthetic at 3k revs.

At idle, i cant remember. Not sure if renault gave an idle recommendation in the williams service book.

Bit pointless measuring it at idle though because you want to test the flow so you need to add revs.

claireharrison
11-03-2012, 18:45
Mr science man, what are the minimum and maximum pressures allowed by the manufacturer's tolerances?

If I understand it correctly, excessive oil pressure may indicate a blocked filter, blocked oil gallery or the wrong grade of oil. Low oil pressure indicates worn bearings on the crank shaft or a broken oil pump.

Your tests were conducted on 1 engine and you find the result conclusive enough to splurt out that you know better than everyone else?
Have you published your findings in any trade journal perhaps?

Another day off from the cuckoo house if you ask me.

Testing on a single engine is obviously the way to decrease all the variable you have just mentioned. The fact that you didnt realise this as you typed it out indicates to me that you know about as much about research methodology as a wasp.

fabulicious
11-03-2012, 20:35
Testing on a single engine is obviously the way to decrease all the variable you have just mentioned. The fact that you didnt realise this as you typed it out indicates to me that you know about as much about research methodology as a wasp.

This coming from a largely perceived sociopath and in my view thief.

What is obvious is that you failed, again.

1. You failed to indicate the manufacturer's tolerance levels for oil pressure.

2. Secondly, for your "research methodology" to hold any substance the test would of ideally had to be carried out on a work bench and identical fresh oil used on the change of each filter.

3. Thirdly, you seemed to have dis-regarded one major factor. The oil pump could of at any time have held debris in it such as bits of metal or sump gasket which in turn would have an impact on oil flow and therefore pressure.

What a dope
:roll:

claireharrison
11-03-2012, 21:10
Take it or leave it. If you are not interested, i really don't give a ****. Its your engine you choose.

FATBOY
11-03-2012, 21:21
assuming a ladies identity on here now??? :lol: :roll: another thread ruined and locked. :(