Manifolds

[jill]

Just received this email from a company i deal with in France:

Hello Robert,

The 4/1 stainless manifold it's available , price 397,72 €, freight cost 11,70 €, payment by CB or telegraphic transfert.

The clio manifold are tested by our customer and we obtain between 10 and 12 horse power and more torque.

You can confirmed your order by e mail or fax, for payment by credit card only by fax because our e mail adress are not securised.

Best regards


397 Euros is about £230 and only £7 postage from France.

[FlamingMonkey]

10-12bhp :shock:

[Jan]

Sounds interesting.... Pictures?

[jill]

I think supersprint claim 12 bhp on their manifold?

Probably similar gains on both due to larger bore.

[FlamingMonkey]

Does seem a big increase, but hey if it works.

[jill]

I doubt its 12 on either, maybe 5 if your lucky. But both will gain in different places.


4-2-1 lower down, 4-1 higher up

[big hp]

Hmmmm

4-2-1 or 4-1

Got any pics Rob?

[Tom_16v]

more info....

[jill]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y240/King_Stromba/RC_C46W.jpg

[bigjim]

WHO MAKES IT? IM SICK OF GETTING CONFLICTING ADVICE ON MANIFOLDS, CLAIMED 7BHP THEN OTHERS THAT HAVE FITTED THEM (BEN R, ANDY GDI) CLAIM NO DIFFERENCE TO STANDARD. ONE MINUTE I WANT ONE THE NEXT I DONT. IM CONFUSED!!! :x

[fab]

its the usual manufacturers claim of BHP increase.yet they dont specify where they take the reading from do they?

[KingStromba]

Of course they improve performance. Why would rally cars run them if they just looked pretty? Renault Sport used a devil manifold 4-2-1 on its group a rally cars.


If ben r etc says they dont improve performance they needs to check the fitting instructions again.


The gains wont be big, but they will be there all the same.

[BenR]

i'm sorry Rob, but thats just silly talk.

Have you even held one yet?

I mean, look at the cylinder pairing.....and the teeny weeny 4" secondaries.

just because its there doesnt mean it makes power. If it did, i would say it did.......why would i not, i could sell it couldnt i?

I dont see a point because the F7P item is just as good as anything anybody has on the market for 'reasonable' prices at the moment. Ofcourse you can better it, but who wants to pay for a decent manifold?

[VIPERONE]

ive said it before, the f7p manifold is a work of casting art..why pay £300+ for a manifold that is inferior to the cast iron beast.

[BenR]

gunners got it spot on.

[KingStromba]

i'm sorry Rob, but thats just silly talk.

Have you even held one yet?

I mean, look at the cylinder pairing.....and the teeny weeny 4" secondaries.

just because its there doesnt mean it makes power. If it did, i would say it did.......why would i not, i could sell it couldnt i?

I dont see a point because the F7P item is just as good as anything anybody has on the market for 'reasonable' prices at the moment. Ofcourse you can better it, but who wants to pay for a decent manifold?

Ben no offence but your talking shit.

A BRAND NEW valver manifold from Renault is £500 plus (you think that is reasonable?)

A BRAND NEW 4-2-1 from supersprint is £300

You are comparing a brand new shiny item with an old rusty item, of course the rusty item going to be cheaper. Comparing both new items we find that at power gained divided by money spent and the supersprint manifold comes out ontop. Add to that the fact that the supersprint will last for the life of the car and the Reanult item may not.

Likewise a new Reanult 4-1 is £550, whereas a non renault stainless 4-1 is £300.

Think before you type :roll:


Stop press: Just found out Jean Ragnotti ordered a 4-2-1 valver manifold from Infinicar during the Finnish Rally because he was told it was 'just as good as the Devil system developed for the car' :roll:

[2 live]

can see ur point in a way rob.........but how old are the valver and willy manifolds now??

tbh a s/s one to me is just for the looks.....a mild steel or cast manifold can last for over 10 years......so y the need for stainless??


sorry....its shiny........and ......errrrrrrr looks .......er shiny

[J o n]

give up Ben, no point argueing with the ignorant, plus the amount of cars Stromba has built to take on the SQM big boys means he knows best :wink: :lol:

FYI Mehdi has a supersprint manifold on the same day as the cast iron valver one, it made a huge difference in that the stainless supersprint one was crap all through the rev range and the valver one was better. no doubt people will have their own theories on this, but tried and tested on the same day and the difference was not only noticable... but massive. Mehdi even phoned Ben in a panick as to why the car had suddenly become dog slow...

Just because a valver or willy manifold may be £500 from Reno does not mean they cost that, anywhere else you can get a mint one for a fifth of the price, only an idiot would pay that. Anyway, where's the science in all this, where's 'YOUR' proof? What testing have 'YOU' done Stromba, or did you mate in the pub tell you this... sorry, I mean mate in the internet cafe... ;)

[northy]

there was a improvement when i fitted my Prowler manifold to my williams....3rd was definatly improved and noticed straight away....the gains i would say are 3bhp.

At the end of the day - unless you under go extensive dyno testing with a universal manifold to find the best design....you will have to take a risk.

There are a few more manifolds out there than ktecs one....and in mild steel aswell.

And the stainless steel soon goes dull and tingy once the car get used.....and defo after a rolling road sessh.

[NickFr]

The fact is many people have and will continue to make money producing performance enhancing products......whether they produce the claimed results or indeed are worth the money is always more digestable if you have first hand knowledge ie " had one fitted "

I do wish that when a discussion like this takes place that comments like you are talking " SHIT " are not used at all, its inflammatory and unintelligent. The fact is and the fact remains, we all have the choice as to whose opinion and or experience we believe.

[KingStromba]

You can argue all you like, fact is a SS after market supersprint is CHEAPER than the equivalent Renault equipement.

As this is very very unlikely the supersprint produces LESS power, it is in anyones opinion better value for money.

And any power you gain from fitting a valver manifold to a williams is probably lost throuth the extra weight of the larger manifold.

[KingStromba]

give up Ben, no point argueing with the ignorant, plus the amount of cars Stromba has built to take on the SQM big boys means he knows best :wink: :lol:

FYI Mehdi has a supersprint manifold on the same day as the cast iron valver one, it made a huge difference in that the stainless supersprint one was crap all through the rev range and the valver one was better. no doubt people will have their own theories on this, but tried and tested on the same day and the difference was not only noticable... but massive. Mehdi even phoned Ben in a panick as to why the car had suddenly become dog slow...

Just because a valver or willy manifold may be £500 from Reno does not mean they cost that, anywhere else you can get a mint one for a fifth of the price, only an idiot would pay that. Anyway, where's the science in all this, where's 'YOUR' proof? What testing have 'YOU' done Stromba, or did you mate in the pub tell you this... sorry, I mean mate in the internet cafe... ;)

I beleive the Devil manifold fitted to the group a rally cars would have been extensively dynoed by Renaultsport. I shall write a letter to see if i can obtain any information.

Renaultsport arnt in the business of just adding parts to cars without extensive testing.

I think you can be assured that as it was used in group a on the Williams, the devil manifold offers some an improvement (either power or drieability or strength). I personally dont think Ragnotti cared if it looked nice :P

[2 live]

not to mention the narrower bore where it mates up to the de-cat pipe.....well the diff on the valver downpipe i have and the std willy cat is about 1/2 inch in diameter.......not good

[KingStromba]

The fact is many people have and will continue to make money producing performance enhancing products......whether they produce the claimed results or indeed are worth the money is always more digestable if you have first hand knowledge ie " had one fitted "

I do wish that when a discussion like this takes place that comments like you are talking " SHIT " are not used at all, its inflammatory and unintelligent. The fact is and the fact remains, we all have the choice as to whose opinion and or experience we believe.

Nick. Ben said i was being silly so i replied that he was talking shit. Seems fair to me. Always counter attack with twice the force.

[NickFr]

I thought we were on here to share knowledge not get involved in semantics and fighting talk. Please lets not let " Machisimo" become the order of the day.

If you are saying that you always counter attack with twice the force, then its you that is escalating the discussion into an arguement.

Try this......".Ben, I respect the fact that you don't agree with me and that you have considerably more experience than I, however I believe I am right for the following reasons"..........

Bingo, no confrontation, no need for force, NO ARGUMENT....simple really :wink:

[KingStromba]

Ben i respect that you have an opinion, but call me silly again and ill rip you head off and replace your top 5 vertebrae with a set of awt cams and your heart with a gold pully.

Hows that? :wink:


Id like to discuss the 4-1 manifold i have found. Not argue whether a valver manifold is good value. I dont put rusty old things on my car or in my car, especially if they belong on a valver, not a Williams :wink:

[FlamingMonkey]

I thought we were on here to share knowledge not get involved in semantics and fighting talk. Please lets not let " Machisimo" become the order of the day.

If you are saying that you always counter attack with twice the force, then its you that is escalating the discussion into an arguement.

Try this......".Ben, I respect the fact that you don't agree with me and that you have considerably more experience than I, however I believe I am right for the following reasons"..........

Bingo, no confrontation, no need for force, NO ARGUMENT....simple really :wink:

I agree with you Nick, getting tiresome all the arguments.....yawn.

[KingStromba]

LOL, so dont post in my thread. GO AWAY and post in NW christmas meal thread.

This post has degenerated because people have entered this thread simply to wind me up. If you dont have anything constructive to say on the ORIGINAL post, then you are off topic and should not be posting.

This thread is not about:

Stromba
Valver manifolds
Whether Monkey is tired of arguments


Its about a particular stainless steel 4-1 manifold i have located in France.



STAY ON TOPIC PLEASE

[FlamingMonkey]

LOL, so dont post in my thread. GO AWAY and post in NW christmas meal thread

Sorry forgot you were Admin on this site, I'll make a note next time to check with you before posting.

[KingStromba]

Do you have anything constructive to post Monkey? Or just want an argument?

[Purple]

IMHO, exhaust tuning is akin more to black art than engineering

The smaller bore SS manifold might be tuned to create stronger back pressure for standard tune F7Rs. Whereas, the bigger bore valver manifold might just perform better for more aggressively tuned F7Rs. It might just boil down to matching the correct exhaust system to the state of tune of the engine.

[FlamingMonkey]

Do you have anything constructive to post Monkey? Or just want an argument?

You stared with the attacking remarks, if you want a argument we can, but are you sure you have time, I mean there are about forty threads left in the forum you haven't posted on trying to get peoples back up.

I'll wait if you like and we can argue later when your not busy being annoying.

[KingStromba]

Yeah i agree, i put a scorpion on 0200 and it was rubbish. Loud, no power gain, rattly. Put a magnex on and it was much improved over standard. Instantly felt it. And i went standard inbetween both exhausts so it was a fair comparison.

Standard to scorpion = no gain / loss
Scorpion to standard = no gain / loss
Standard to magnex = gain

The scorpion was an older exhaust, but the baffles where intact. I just think it comes down to hitting the sweet spot for your particular car.

[KingStromba]

Do you have anything constructive to post Monkey? Or just want an argument?

Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah


Good point Monkey, i agree i am the King of Kings, thank you for the compliment

[NickFr]

Well......A Leopard never changes it's spots......You will not listen to reason will you??

If you carry on like this you will have an audience of one, YOU, what will it take for you to cut the crap and start being the kinda guy I know you really are...instead of this overbearing, opinionated, arrogant, aggressive,egotistic, insufferable and thoroughly unpleasant individual. :(

[northy]

stromba - give it a rest....and ben is entitled to his oppinion. And no im not picking on you...jesus mentioned a few valid points but like monkey is getting tired of this bickering!
lets try and have one topic run with out it turning into a arguement.

Everyone has there own views on 'go faster goodies'...FACT. Ben, me, yourself, 2live, jesus who ever....the fact is you are entitled to post any usefull info u feel is relivent....if u feels its not true - then prove otherwise with decent usefull facts....BUT untill then take the info on board and learn from it.

If we carnt all get along then i will be forced into yet more admin work which i can do without....and delete yet another usefull thread.

[mutley]

i gotta say if Stromba is gonna get off his backside and actually write to renaultsport about these manifolds then surely we gotta support him - not get in a war of words with him??

"at the end of the day" (Beckham eat your heart out!) if renault sport dont reply then we as a 'williams owners club' have lost nothing. but if renault sport get back to him with their scientific findings about manifolds, exhaust pipes, downpipes all that kinda stuff then surely its a benefit to US ALL. Yeah we may not all be able to afford or care about getting devil/SS/or valver manifolds but the ones who do can take something from it.

lets try and focus on the topic O:)

[KingStromba]

i gotta say if Stromba is gonna get off his backside and actually write to renaultsport about these manifolds then surely we gotta support him - not get in a war of words with him??

"at the end of the day" (Beckham eat your heart out!) if renault sport dont reply then we as a 'williams owners club' have lost nothing. but if renault sport get back to him with their scientific findings about manifolds, exhaust pipes, downpipes all that kinda stuff then surely its a benefit to US ALL. Yeah we may not all be able to afford or care about getting devil/SS/or valver manifolds but the ones who do can take something from it.

lets try and focus on the topic O:)

Cheers pal. Thanks for the support. I will get the french girl to translate the letter into french before i send it to dieppe.

[FlamingMonkey]

i gotta say if Stromba is gonna get off his backside and actually write to renaultsport about these manifolds then surely we gotta support him - not get in a war of words with him??

I don't get what your trying to say? Because he writes a letter to France he can take the piss?

Anyway I'll leave you to sort out your group buy.

[mutley]

no. definately not, I dont see the point of turning the forum into a playground. However, it does take two people. I've never met Stromba or yourself and i'm sure, judging by the way you both get into heated discussions about cars you love your cars.

as i said in the previous post lets keeps to the thread, with any luck Stromba will come back with positive, interesting findings.

I'm not into spending £400 or whatever for a manifold - my one is totally fine for the driving i do. I dont do track days or rallying around the streets of Gillingham!!

I'm not supporting him because i want one of these manifolds - I'm supporting him because he is trying and whatever he finds out will help this club put this whole 'what manifold is best' debate to bed......... hopefully!!!!!!!!!

[northy]

but you have to take on board all critisium.....good or bad.

if someone says this is best then great...but dont spit the dummy out and have a go....thats all were asking.

[fab]

I do wish that when a discussion like this takes place that comments like you are talking " SHIT " are not used at all, its inflammatory and unintelligent. The fact is and the fact remains, we all have the choice as to whose opinion and or experience we believe.


Thats the best piece of writing ive read on this forum to date.

[KingStromba]

no. definately not, I dont see the point of turning the forum into a playground. However, it does take two people. I've never met Stromba or yourself and i'm sure, judging by the way you both get into heated discussions about cars you love your cars.

as i said in the previous post lets keeps to the thread, with any luck Stromba will come back with positive, interesting findings.

I'm not into spending £400 or whatever for a manifold - my one is totally fine for the driving i do. I dont do track days or rallying around the streets of Gillingham!!

I'm not supporting him because i want one of these manifolds - I'm supporting him because he is trying and whatever he finds out will help this club put this whole 'what manifold is best' debate to bed......... hopefully!!!!!!!!!

Your right, i think alot of people are passionate about their cars, maybe in different ways.

I too am not interested in getting an aftermarket manifold too much, as i feel the 4-1 Renault one i have is fine for the light driving i do. I dont do track days or road racing either, but am more into restoring my car and enjoying driving it to a nice pub or to a scenic location.

This post was intended to inform users that a 4-1 manifold is available to buy should they so wish. For no other reason. Why some people have to start a my manifold is better than your manifold argument i will never know (i could understand all the shouting if some actually had anything worth while to shout about). It was an informative post, take it or leave it. In future shall i keep the information to myself and the club will be the worse off. I beleive one member has the speedline paint code but keeps that quiet :wink:

Each to there own, we all want different things. But if some of us could be a little less defensive and accept that there are other parts available about which you may know little and havnt tried, then we can all get on alot better.

[KingStromba]

but you have to take on board all critisium.....good or bad.

if someone says this is best then great...but dont spit the dummy out and have a go....thats all were asking.

If that is in reference to me, i think if you reread the post you will realise i have no real intention of actually buying any other manifold than a brand new Renault 4-1.

I have no reason to defend aftermarket manifolds as i think they are tacky and detract from the originality of the car (the same way i dont like ss exhausts).

If you are refering to me as spittin their dummy out, then i dont really see where you are coming from. All i was reacting too was ben calling me silly and jesus calling me ignorant, but as this is clearly acceptable policy on this forum i will assume i can call others the same from now on. :D

[Jamie.]

does any1 actually have a rr printout for a before and after s/s manifold being fitted, regardless of make? also has any1 ever tried a valver manifold on their willy and seen any improvement?

[KingStromba]

You would have to dyno the engine rather than rr it i think Jamie to be 100% accurate, that way you could control all the variables like water and oil temp and air temp to great accuaracy.

[Swervin_Mervin]

FWIW I agree with what Purplesun had to say about the specifics of the tune of the car.

You can go a hell of a long way in to exhaust design, including pulse tuning, so it wouldn't be any surprise at all if one thing on one car didn't work as well as on another car.

[KingStromba]

Plus bearing in mind that most engines start with different power values.
Im sure some standard williams engines push 160-165 and some are closer to 150.

Obviously a manifold will have different effects on these two different baseline engines.

[J o n]

You would have to dyno the engine rather than rr it i think Jamie to be 100% accurate, that way you could control all the variables like water and oil temp and air temp to great accuaracy.

or try with standard and with the stainless one and take it for a drive with both on. If you know your car well enough you will be able to tell the difference, which on Mehdi's the difference wasn't slight, but massive. The stainless one seems to follow the same design path as the Willy one, the valver one comes out higher and the bores from the manifold are larger. I dont know what this would be like changing one to the other on a standard(ish) engine, but on TB'd cars it seems as though you need to get the gas out the manifold quicker than anywhere else.

[KingStromba]

What happens if you try the stainless mainfold at 12 oclock in the hot sun, and by the time youve changed it over to the valver one the sun has gone in and air temp has dropped 12 degrees?

Car will obviously feel faster.

[J o n]

it was hot all day and the sun was out all day. we went in with the valver one, changed to stainless, drove it again, Mehdi wasn't impressed, took it back, changed it again and test drove it again. The valver one was miles better. i'm not talking a slight change here, I'm talking about a huge difference all through the rev range, you couldn't not notice it. There was more torque felt throughout the rev range and the car reved infinitely faster with the valver manifold. It wasn't just in mine or his head if that's what you are getting at.

[KingStromba]

A 'huge' difference would be what 20 bhp?

Because id be pushed to feel 5 bhp in a car. So when you say huge you mean about 20 + bhp yeah?

[northy]

you would defo notice a 3bhp gain mate....unless your miss daisy.

[J o n]

A 'huge' difference would be what 20 bhp?

Because id be pushed to feel 5 bhp in a car. So when you say huge you mean about 20 + bhp yeah?

if not more on Mehdi's car. it felt about as fast as my car... maybe slower infact.

i think i'd easily notice 5bhp, as I noticed when I went from an open K&N IK to the standard airbox... it was pretty obvious it was faster, difference was slight, but noticable...

[KingStromba]

So a valver mainfold made 25 bhp difference over a Supersprint manifold Jesus? Is that what your saying?

[KingStromba]

you would defo notice a 3bhp gain mate....unless your miss daisy.


Adding 3bhp is equivalent to removing about 18 kgs on the Williams or the spare wheel if you like. No driver would really notice that.

If you want to do an experiment i will remove your spare wheel or not without you knowing and see if you can tell.


I bet you cant.

[J o n]

without an RR i've no idea, but in the case of Mehdi's old car, yes, about that. you will dispute what I say no matter what, just like the induction socks sapping 40bhp... and oh, guess what, they did.

[KingStromba]

without an RR i've no idea, but in the case of Mehdi's old car, yes, about that. you will dispute what I say no matter what, just like the induction socks sapping 40bhp... and oh, guess what, they did.


Have i disputed what you said? Just assertaining an accurate figure. No need to get defensive silly.

[Jamie.]

tell u what, why doesnt someone just buy one (manifold, whatever make), with or without a grp buy as they are just a pain in the ass anyway...get it fitted and report back whether they make a difference or not?and may be get a dyno test or a rr too?!?

[Swervin_Mervin]

you would defo notice a 3bhp gain mate....unless your miss daisy.


Adding 3bhp is equivalent to removing about 18 kgs on the Williams or the spare wheel if you like. No driver would really notice that.

If you want to do an experiment i will remove your spare wheel or not without you knowing and see if you can tell.


I bet you cant.

I bet you can. I've removed the spare from mine and noticed the difference. I've also run with the spare in and the back seats out and you really can tell teh difference.

[northy]

you would defo notice a 3bhp gain mate....unless your miss daisy.


Adding 3bhp is equivalent to removing about 18 kgs on the Williams or the spare wheel if you like. No driver would really notice that.

If you want to do an experiment i will remove your spare wheel or not without you knowing and see if you can tell.


I bet you cant.

ok rob...what ever

[J o n]

without an RR i've no idea, but in the case of Mehdi's old car, yes, about that. you will dispute what I say no matter what, just like the induction socks sapping 40bhp... and oh, guess what, they did.


Have i disputed what you said? Just assertaining an accurate figure. No need to get defensive silly.

not yet, maybe it's just the way you word things though? you disputed the 40bhp on the socks and made some off hand remarks about Ben as a tuner, so i appologise if i may seem a bit short with you, but tbh I think your a nasty peice of work and are at least intelligent enough to be able to write some text so that people dont think your intentionally being a **** :wink:

Anyway, if you drive your car hard ever then you will be able to notice 3bhp gain from something like a filter or whatever, stripping weight would be harder to tell as the power will be all throughout the rev range, as opposed to certain power bands. If for example you went from a K&N to and airbox and didn't notice a difference then you dont know your car, simple. How well do you know the Williams engine and the way it responds to mods etc? Take your back seats out, it's similar i'd say to putting a decat on your car and tell me if you notice the difference. It takes all of 2 minutes to remove them and even quicker to get them back in.

[KingStromba]

WTF is this about socks? :?

[KingStromba]

You probably know your car alot better than mine as you are a better driver.

[northy]

thats jons point mate....you have to know your stuff to begin with.


socks are individual filters to protect against debris on t/b cars mate.

[J o n]

You probably know your car alot better than mine as you are a better driver.

why thank you Rob :lol:

[KingStromba]

And your car is faster too, so i wouldnt know about 3 bhp

[KingStromba]

Ive never had a discussion about socks as i dont know what the hell they are, you sure it was me?

[J o n]

you should notice 3bhp on a slower car tho, but if it's standard then fair do's.

yeah, it's when we went to get the car and it didn't have a filter on it as it had not arrived and was performing ever so slightly slower than mine. it wasn't so much discussing the sox, the haters were more caught up in the fact it was only as quick as my midly tuned Williams... oh well, 13.4 sets the record straight either way 8)

[bigjim]

back on topic this manifold u have found in france stromba, is it the devil system? is it mild steel or stainless? and i would be very interested to hear the reply from renaultsport if u send the letter to them. cheers.

[KingStromba]

Not devil and stainless steel

[Fred]

Orbisoud??????

[Zollo]

Slightly off topic here. Unless I'm missing something, it's obvious why the Williams system has a smaller bore than the valver one. I was under the impression the Valver is a higher revving engine, producing power higher up, and the Williams is a low-rev unit which produces far more torque at far lower revs. Smaller bore manilfold helps with more torque. Bigger bore manifold produces more top end.

If you're chasing quarter mile times and outright performance, then a Valver manifold may be great. If you're running a tuned engine, of course the extra bore size will give better results.

However, I can't imagine it makes more power low down as well. And on a STANDARD Williams, I can't imagine it will work as well either. If that is the case, then it will become one of the mysteries of the world as to why Renault decided to design a more restrictive manifold for their flagship homologation hot hatch. Particularly after they'd already made the perfect one already. :?

Preparing to be shot down in flames :P

P.S. Totally agree with Purplesun. Exhaust design is a black art and dependant on all sorts of engine parameters. And a bigger bore doesn't always mean better.

[KingStromba]

Slightly off topic here. Unless I'm missing something, it's obvious why the Williams system has a smaller bore than the valver one. I was under the impression the Valver is a higher revving engine, producing power higher up, and the Williams is a low-rev unit which produces far more torque at far lower revs. Smaller bore manilfold helps with more torque. Bigger bore manifold produces more top end.

If you're chasing quarter mile times and outright performance, then a Valver manifold may be great. If you're running a tuned engine, of course the extra bore size will give better results.

However, I can't imagine it makes more power low down as well. And on a STANDARD Williams, I can't imagine it will work as well either. If that is the case, then it will become one of the mysteries of the world as to why Renault decided to design a more restrictive manifold for their flagship homologation hot hatch. Particularly after they'd already made the perfect one already. :?

Preparing to be shot down in flames :P

P.S. Totally agree with Purplesun. Exhaust design is a black art and dependant on all sorts of engine parameters. And a bigger bore doesn't always mean better.


I agree mate. Renault would have almost certainly tried the valver manifold on the Williams, but decided to go to the expense of making a brand new item. When you consider than they werent shy about 'borrowing' parts for the Williams from other Renault cars, i see this as evidence that Renault think the 4-1 is a better design for the F7R, and the valver manifold had some key disadvantages.

[FlamingMonkey]

Slightly off topic here. Unless I'm missing something, it's obvious why the Williams system has a smaller bore than the valver one. I was under the impression the Valver is a higher revving engine, producing power higher up, and the Williams is a low-rev unit which produces far more torque at far lower revs. Smaller bore manilfold helps with more torque. Bigger bore manifold produces more top end.

If you're chasing quarter mile times and outright performance, then a Valver manifold may be great. If you're running a tuned engine, of course the extra bore size will give better results.

However, I can't imagine it makes more power low down as well. And on a STANDARD Williams, I can't imagine it will work as well either. If that is the case, then it will become one of the mysteries of the world as to why Renault decided to design a more restrictive manifold for their flagship homologation hot hatch. Particularly after they'd already made the perfect one already. :?

Preparing to be shot down in flames :P

P.S. Totally agree with Purplesun. Exhaust design is a black art and dependant on all sorts of engine parameters. And a bigger bore doesn't always mean better.

I'll let you know mate, my Valver manifold is going on today, if it's no better or worse it's coming off, is its better it's staying :lol:

[northy]

thats the best way rob.....

if you havent tried it for yourself you will never know.

good luck mate.....and make sure u plant your foot in all gears :lol:

[FlamingMonkey]

good luck mate.....and make sure u plant your foot in all gears :lol:

Will do 8)

[northy]

but not on motorways :oops: