newbie with a williams 2 going hillclimbing

[williams2]

Hello, my name's Nick and I am hoping to get in to hillclimbing and sprints this coming year in a Williams 2.
I currently drive an 2005 Impreza modified to around 280bhp and over January will be fitting enough new bits to take me over 320bhp. Despite this i have very little experience on clios and so any advice on how to get the most out of it whilst keeping it in the msa's road-going class would be appreciated. Particularly reliable suppliers of aftermarket parts would be useful and what are remapping options/costs?

The williams has been sat around around for 4 or 5 years since the clutch went so i don't know how much work its going to take to get it moving again and the start of the year will be tied up working on the scooby. But for next year i hope to enter a couple of events and if all goes well make a decent season of it in 2013.

When i get started i shall start a project thread if there is any interest but i suspect it will be slow going due to other commitments.

[robi1000]

Hello and welcome!

You'll find loads of good threads and interesting projects you can use as inspiration.

I'm also sure you'll get a quick and accurate response to your questions!

Pics pics pics! :)

[williams2]

I don't have any pics of the williams at the moment but this is the scoob (before i detangoed the headlights):

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/donnedly/Summer%20PAD/DSC_0971-2.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k268/donnedly/Keevil%20Track%20Day/PA221580.jpg

[robi1000]

Man enough to wear pink! :lol:

[stevie_b]

Hi there. Just so I know where to start with the help... Have you sprinted and hillclimbed your Scooby? i.e. are you looking for general info about sprints and hillclimbs or is it specifically how to get the best out of the Clio for it?

I started off the other way round - sprinting/hillclimbing my valver and then moved on to running Scoobies. The Williams should still be competitive in the <2 litre N/A class today I would think, as the valver could win its class a few years back (the only thing consistently too good for it was an S2000, which had 100bhp advantage over my Clio in 'standard production <2 litre' class).

[williams2]

Sorry for not being clearer. I have not sprinted/hillclimbed before but i am pretty clued up about how to get involved in that.
Mainly i was looking for advice on modifying the williams. What sort of gains are possible on a modest budget, best places to source parts, typical upgrade path, where to get a roll cage, etc.
How well does it cope with modifying without remaping, i mean the scooby needs a remap if you change a wheel nut :lol: is the williams a bit more tolerant?

Sorry for so many questions, i know my scooby very well so this is a journey in to the unknown.

[16v_paddy]

The biggest gains have got to be the cheapest 1 out there - rip everything out!! :lol:

Which has now got me curious, what's the most weight anyone has removed from a mk1? Excluding beanie & anyone else mad enough to spend a shitload of money on plastic panels & carbon fibre :lol:

[dkrevs]

The biggest gains have got to be the cheapest 1 out there - rip everything out!! :lol:

Which has now got me curious, what's the most weight anyone has removed from a mk1? Excluding beanie & anyone else mad enough to spend a shitload of money on plastic panels & carbon fibre :lol:
Probably f0xy's. IIRC his Clio was around 830kg.

[16v_paddy]

Was that with or without the cage? As that thing in his car is a work of art but it does make getting in & out, for the more cuddly amongst us, look like a rather undignified routine :lol:

[williams2]

unfortunately one of the few things i can't do in road-going class is remove the interior.
Seats and door cards must remove although race seats can be fitted.
No adding a turbo or supercharger
and no engine swaps.

Other than that you can pretty much do what you want.
I'm roughly planning:
Remove carpets (thats allowed), Induction, decat, roll cage, bigger brakes,
and then look into what else works. Cams seem a popular upgrade at this point?

[williams2]

*door cards and seats must remain*

sorry.

[A&P]

Do hillclimbs and sprints myself first upgrade is tyres super soft kumhos ( dont run them on the road) shocks/springs then diff , gripper etc makes MASSIVE difference of course power always helps :) hope I will see you on some events next year if our calenders cross. Cheers ANDREW,

[cliorod]

As a licensed clerk of course for speed events (Hillclimbs/sprints) I would stongly advised you check out the 2012 regulation changes to what you can and cannot do :cry: :cry: .Without moving out of the Production car class.
If you send me your address I have a copy on disc of the MSA 2012 INTERACTIVE YEARBOOK :lol: :lol: ,I will post to you,alternatively you could log on to www.msauk.org
Everything you need .... not only car regulations but helmet and overall specifications/regulations,which have recently changed,I am about 90% sure the new helmet rules state that it is MANDATORY to have a specification of helmet that has a NOMEX(Fireproof) lining..... I tried to get them to alter it by ensuring competitors wear a Nomex balaclava,if there helmet did not conform ....no was the answer.
Rod

[16v_paddy]

Well if the interior has to stay in I'm pretty sure you can still get plenty of weight out of there by removing the sound deadening as well as some strategic use of an angle grinder :twisted:

[stevie_b]

The biggest gains have got to be the cheapest 1 out there - rip everything out!! :lol:

Which has now got me curious, what's the most weight anyone has removed from a mk1? Excluding beanie & anyone else mad enough to spend a shitload of money on plastic panels & carbon fibre :lol:

Definitely ripping everything out is a cheap mod with good gains in performance but he does need to take care to stay within the regs still. Mine has had that done (and could no longer enter in the production class as a result) and depending on your definition of 'shitload of money on plastic panels and carbon fibre' may qualify - I only have carbon mirrors and gearknob and a fibreglass boot and bonnet, but have not replaced the doors or rear quarters with lightweight equivalents due to the expense versus benefit. I totted up most of the stuff that I removed and it was getting on for 200kg, so I would think my car is sub-800kg now, but I need to finish a few bits off before I take it down the road and stick it on a weighbridge to check.



I'm roughly planning:
Remove carpets (thats allowed), Induction, decat, roll cage, bigger brakes

If you can remove the carpets then you should be able to remove the sound proofing foam under it and behind the dash? And also scrape all the 'tar' off the floor so you are just down to the painted metal - the tar alone weighs 7kg and I would think the rest of the sound deadening stuff could be another 10 or so. Swap both seats for racing buckets, which are a lot lighter and will also hold you in place better and have proper cutouts for the harness. I'd probably leave the bigger brakes until last if you are looking to prioritise things - sprints and hillclimbs are very short events so you are unlikely to suffer brake fade there and getting them up to working temperature is more of the issue! If you are planning on tracking the car as well though then it is worth having them on your upgrade list.

[williams2]

wow thanks guys,

cliorod: thanks for the offer that is very kind of you. I will have a good look through it online, i will get a copy when i apply for my license tho, right?
Its not much of an easy read is it !?!

stevie_b: yeah i plan to strip it down to the metal floor but thats all i think i'm allowed to do. Not sure about head-lining.

To be fair it handles pretty well out of the box i was thinking some polybushes would be enough for now, are coilovers going to help a lot?
I'll definitely look out for tyres, i have hankook t70 cut slicks for the scooby but i don't think they will be allowed.

Is k-tec a good place for parts. I see they have a group N spec clutch (1st on the shopping list) and decats/manifolds?

[A&P]

Before you do anything decide what class you are running in then get in touch with Cliorod this will save you a lot of time and money in the long run :wink:

[cliorod]

Before you do anything decide what class you are running in then get in touch with Cliorod this will save you a lot of time and money in the long run
Not a problem,If I can be of help just get in touch,either from a pm on here or throught the lists in the MSA Blue book.
I will not profess to have all the answers :oops: :oops: ,but I Know people who can :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: .
I was best man for a mate who is now an MSA scrutineer,and technical adviser ~~~ :wink: :wink: whose father - in - law is an MSA steward.
Advice is always free... I try to put back into the sport,as much as it has given me over the 35 plus years .... Unfortunately as in most business.The new generation of people in the offices of they MSA are highly qualified (degrees etc) academics .... I hasten to add nowt wrong with that :lol: :lol: :lol: BUT :oops: :oops: They have not been out competing etc etc :cry: :cry: Which I consider the only way to learn...hence mine and other peopls knowledge could save you unecessary time and money

[williams2]

Before you do anything decide what class you are running in then get in touch with Cliorod this will save you a lot of time and money in the long run
Not a problem,If I can be of help just get in touch,either from a pm on here or throught the lists in the MSA Blue book.
I will not profess to have all the answers :oops: :oops: ,but I Know people who can :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink: .
I was best man for a mate who is now an MSA scrutineer,and technical adviser ~~~ :wink: :wink: whose father - in - law is an MSA steward.
Advice is always free... I try to put back into the sport,as much as it has given me over the 35 plus years .... Unfortunately as in most business.The new generation of people in the offices of they MSA are highly qualified (degrees etc) academics .... I hasten to add nowt wrong with that :lol: :lol: :lol: BUT :oops: :oops: They have not been out competing etc etc :cry: :cry: Which I consider the only way to learn...hence mine and other peopls knowledge could save you unecessary time and money

Thanks mate, thats really good to know.
I don't plan an engine swap or anything so production class should be fine for me. For now i will try and rind a race suit (not easy when you are 6'6") and once work starts on the car I could start a project thread maybe.

[cliorod]

and rind a race suit (not easy when you are 6'6")
Again PLEASE check the specification required,this can be found on the www.msauk.org website
Then if you are thinking of going to the AUTOSPORT INTERNATIONAL show in January,armed with cash there are lots of deals to be had :lol: :lol: :lol: AS ALL :roll: :roll: the major manufacturers /suppliers of racewear are there.

[stevie_b]

Not sure about head-lining.


I wouldn't worry too much about removing the headlining - it doesn't weigh that much in the grand scheme of things. You'd lose a lot more weight up top if you removed the sunroof glass and motor, but you'll need to check the regs to see if that is permissable in your intended class.


i was thinking some polybushes would be enough for now, are coilovers going to help a lot?


The standard suspension is pretty good already. Normally though, if it has been on the car since new, then it will be well past its best, so you should see a big improvement if you replaced it. Whether you replace with OE or go for adjustable coilovers is up to you - but there are definitely advantages in the latter, albeit at an increase in cost.



I'll definitely look out for tyres, i have hankook t70 cut slicks for the scooby but i don't think they will be allowed.

I couldn't see those Hankooks listed in the regs (MSA blue book). You need to follow the link above that Rod gave to get into the MSA site, then go and search out the MSA 2012 competitor's handbook. As you have already noticed there are hundreds of pages but you just need to go straight to section L - Permitted Tyres. You can then go through the list to find the ones that you are interested in. For your class you will generally be allowed to run anything from "MSA List 1A" or "MSA List 1B". The tyres in the 1B list are the 'racy' versions of road tyres, but are still road legal - stuff like Toyo R888s and Yoko 032R, which I have used. You need to check the regs for each sprint for the class you enter to check the list they have adopted - sometimes there are classes that accept List 1A tyres only, so you would be stuck if you only had a tyre from List 1B to run. I have never seen a set of regs that allow 1B that don't also allow 1A though, so if you had a 1A tyre available you should be able to run that in anything (at the disadvantage to everyone running the better 1B tyres in events that allow them).