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schakal
17-11-2011, 21:48
Has anyone on here converted their power steering rack to manual
by blanking/by-passing connections on the p/s rack off ?
Which connections need blanking etc ?

tutuur
17-11-2011, 22:35
Blanking off won't work as your hydro-locking the steering rack in that case.
Why don't put a manual steering rack on?

Coops
17-11-2011, 23:49
you have to loop the connections, not blank them

foxy did it, as di whitely i believe amongst others

Jamie.
18-11-2011, 00:31
Why go to the hassle? What's the benefit?

16v_paddy
18-11-2011, 00:43
Power steering sucks massive donkey balls that's why :wink: Well it does in a mk1 clio :P

schakal
18-11-2011, 00:54
you have to loop the connections, not blank them

foxy did it, as di whitely i believe amongst others

any ideas whats to loop into what mate ?
Do you know if they had any problems with it ?

schakal
18-11-2011, 00:56
Why go to the hassle? What's the benefit?

Because p/s is for pussies :D




No , seriously its taking too much precious space ... :wink:

sk84life
18-11-2011, 15:43
I have run a line between the 2 ports on the steering rack and have filled the rack up with power steering fluid. I have blocked up all the ports on the pinion. Haven't had any problems so far but it's only had limited use.

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii164/dpallot/28022010093.jpg

http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii164/dpallot/28022010091.jpg

Smaller por fittings were welded up.

Hope this helps.

sk84life
18-11-2011, 15:44
port*

Coops
18-11-2011, 16:08
ai thats how the other did theirs too iirc

think foxy ran his for year or two before it started to suffer a bit, bad feel etc

Neepdocker
19-11-2011, 19:20
Some early diesel Clio vans have electric power steering.The pump is mounted on top of the gearbox.......I run power steering this way on my ex cup car.

jimslong
19-11-2011, 20:10
Test of race cars with PAS versus non-pas, the pas cars are always quicker.

Loads of examples of pas being retro fitted to rally cars and the cars improving their times.

Do a google search.

FATBOY
19-11-2011, 20:14
nice to see some 8/10mm microbore being put to good use :D

cliokongen
19-11-2011, 22:12
Some early diesel Clio vans have electric power steering.The pump is mounted on top of the gearbox.......I run power steering this way on my ex cup car.

Pictures... please! :)

volymmannen
20-11-2011, 00:46
Some early diesel Clio vans have electric power steering.The pump is mounted on top of the gearbox.......I run power steering this way on my ex cup car.
CLIO Baccara too

schakal
20-11-2011, 11:29
I have run a line between the 2 ports on the steering rack and have filled the rack up with power steering fluid. I have blocked up all the ports on the pinion. Haven't had any problems so far but it's only had limited use.


How does the steering feel ? How much is limited use mate ?


I wonder if it would make any difference amd last longer if the rack was filled with grease instead of fluid which is too thin in comparison ? :idea:

COOPS, i assume foxy etc ran these on track only which cant be many miles of use surely?

sk84life
20-11-2011, 23:38
Very heavy when stationary and slow moving, but feels nice when at a decent speed (10 mph+). Limited use means less than 1 mile i'm afraid.

Lunner
21-11-2011, 08:27
I've done a manual conversion on mine, parking is a bit of a bitch, as it monovering, but once you are up to speed it is just as easy as PAS, and the feedback is fantastic, you feel every little lump and bump through it, can feel exactly when the car starts to wander etc.

I've done mine with a manual rack, and a bracket/tensioner to support the alternator where the PAS pump used to go, along with a shorter aux belt.

They recon PAS gains you 5bhp, back 5 or so years ago when i fitted mine, the new clios comming out, some had PAS and some didn't, and the difference in BHP between the PAS and non PAS models was 5 BHP, and thats a nice new PAS pump, not a 15-20 year old one.

Lunner
21-11-2011, 08:28
Pics of my setup

cliokiz
24-11-2011, 13:49
I converted a stripped lightweight valver to manual

Hated it, ruined the car, steering was stupidly heavy even at speed.

PAS every time for me.

cliokiz
24-11-2011, 13:50
The manual steering on my R5 GTT on the other hand is fantastic

16v_paddy
24-11-2011, 19:29
I converted a stripped lightweight valver to manual

Hated it, ruined the car, steering was stupidly heavy even at speed.

PAS every time for me.

BOLLOCKS!! The steering on TEW was ****in awesome & I genuinely enjoyed driving it :twisted:

Also worth noting the weight saving, wont be as much if you're keeping the PAS rack but (guessing a bit here so not 100% accurate) it's somewhere in the region of 10-15kg with the full manual setup

robi1000
25-11-2011, 03:33
If ditching PAS would make you faster, factory racing cars wouldn't have it... :P

16v_paddy
25-11-2011, 06:17
If ditching PAS would make you faster, factory racing cars wouldn't have it... :P

But what chance have us mere mortals got of getting anywhere near driving a factory racing car though :wink: but I suspect that factory racing cars make up for the extra weight & the supposed 5bhp loss with something along the lines of adding an extra 100bhp or similar :lol:

zmaster2k
25-11-2011, 08:19
Agree with lunners comments

Parking Is a bit of a mare...other than that no issues. Car drives well

Lots of feedback love it tbh

Also it clears lots of shite out of the engine bay!

jimslong
25-11-2011, 21:08
If manual steering was faster, rally cars who had power steering failures would miraculously finish the stages in faster times. They dont. They are dog slow and obviously so if you watch the amount of steering input on any rally car driven properly.

The power gains are also not 5bhp. The 5 bhp loss might occur on maximum lock, but virtually no loss will be felt on a straight piece of road as the steering pump is doing no work as the relief valve will be open. So you gain 5 bhp on the corner, where you wont be on full power anyway.

Totally pointless modification that ruins the williams. Probably improves a R9 thinking about it, cant make it much worse.

zmaster2k
25-11-2011, 23:07
Stromba you troll

Seriously find somthing to do with your life, these roid rages you keep experiencing are not good for you

jimslong
26-11-2011, 00:06
who? (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=naked+bloke&um=1&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=574&tbm=isch&tbnid=-S7Jgx7FmH23FM:&imgrefurl=http://oddthings.wordpress.com/2006/11/25/nude-oil-covered-thief-caught/&docid=lXih3W1z0-KLNM&imgurl=http://www.myloupe.com/disp_thumb_images/1582/display/221957.jpg&w=310&h=350&ei=UB7QTovOIJCChQe85oXVDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=91&vpy=118&dur=307&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=111&ty=112&sig=105849765933725313149&page=1&tbnh=116&tbnw=112&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0)

jimslong
26-11-2011, 00:06
who? (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=naked+bloke&um=1&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=574&tbm=isch&tbnid=-S7Jgx7FmH23FM:&imgrefurl=http://oddthings.wordpress.com/2006/11/25/nude-oil-covered-thief-caught/&docid=lXih3W1z0-KLNM&imgurl=http://www.myloupe.com/disp_thumb_images/1582/display/221957.jpg&w=310&h=350&ei=UB7QTovOIJCChQe85oXVDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=91&vpy=118&dur=307&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=111&ty=112&sig=105849765933725313149&page=1&tbnh=116&tbnw=112&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0)

jimslong
26-11-2011, 00:11
Sorry double post (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=fat+bloke&um=1&hl=en&safe=off&biw=1024&bih=603&tbm=isch&tbnid=yew61g2LVViq6M:&imgrefurl=http://arbroath.blogspot.com/2010/02/surgeons-slice-264-lbs-of-fat-from.html&docid=NZou_h3XY1dk5M&imgurl=http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_f98opUNuVXc/S3NzOJCiqqI/AAAAAAAANDs/qoOGbpqWvU4/s400/Fat%252Bbloke.jpg&w=335&h=400&ei=YSDQTsmcEIO-8gOyusi9Dw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=104&sig=105849765933725313149&page=1&tbnh=118&tbnw=99&start=0&ndsp=20&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0&tx=44&ty=63)

zmaster2k
26-11-2011, 10:36
Apologies if that's not you.....

schakal
27-11-2011, 14:00
who? (http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=naked+bloke&um=1&hl=en&biw=1024&bih=574&tbm=isch&tbnid=-S7Jgx7FmH23FM:&imgrefurl=http://oddthings.wordpress.com/2006/11/25/nude-oil-covered-thief-caught/&docid=lXih3W1z0-KLNM&imgurl=http://www.myloupe.com/disp_thumb_images/1582/display/221957.jpg&w=310&h=350&ei=UB7QTovOIJCChQe85oXVDQ&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=91&vpy=118&dur=307&hovh=239&hovw=211&tx=111&ty=112&sig=105849765933725313149&page=1&tbnh=116&tbnw=112&start=0&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0)

either way you sound like a cock thats ignorant enough to not realise
a R9 comes with manual steering as standard .

Zmaster , QUOTE one of his posts at 11:06 pm mate and you shall see
for yourself :wink:

schakal
27-11-2011, 14:14
Agree with lunners comments

Parking Is a bit of a mare...other than that no issues. Car drives well

Lots of feedback love it tbh

Also it clears lots of shite out of the engine bay!

I allready have manual steering on the R9 which i drive daily and
dont have huge problems parking with the 14" wheels i am running at the moment , before this i had 15" valver steelies which was making it much harder but only when parking .

From my experience with both my cars ;
P/S on my 19 16v when the engine is not running is much harder than standard manual steering on my R9

dkrevs
27-11-2011, 14:50
From my experience with both my cars ;
P/S on my 19 16v when the engine is not running is much harder than standard manual steering on my R9
I always wondered if this hardeness of PAS when car is not running was due to PAS pump not running(trying to turn the pump when turning the steering wheel) or it was the shorter LTL ratio on PAS racks opposed to NON-PAS racks which usually have more LTL(more LTL, easier steering and vice versa)?

jimslong
27-11-2011, 20:48
But the renault 9 isnt a performance car is it? Its fine with manual steering as it was designed as a cheap a to b car. You have put a performance engine it it presumably to go faster. Therefore you will have faster steering imputs and should get PAS.

zmaster2k
27-11-2011, 21:29
I take it back....deffo him

Lunner
27-11-2011, 21:34
explain the difference in the quoted renault figures then rob for the 1.2 clios.

Rally cars will suffer from lack of PAS as there is alot of steering input in a rally car versus a track/road car

jimslong
27-11-2011, 23:59
explain the difference in the quoted renault figures then rob for the 1.2 clios.

Rally cars will suffer from lack of PAS as there is alot of steering input in a rally car versus a track/road car

Did any of the 1.2 mk1 clios have pas? I was under the impression that the 1.4 RT had PAS, but the diesels and 1.2 clios did not.

Rally cars are rubbish without PAS. Lets be truthful. The steering effort in any well driven rally car makes PAS a necessity.

As for race cars, i disagree with you, but respect your right to be wrong.

jimslong
28-11-2011, 00:03
explain the difference in the quoted renault figures then rob for the 1.2 clios.

Rally cars will suffer from lack of PAS as there is alot of steering input in a rally car versus a track/road car

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-figures/renault/clio/hatchback-1991/

zmaster2k
28-11-2011, 08:02
Stromba I understand where your comming from...but surely it's down to personal preference...fine we get it you like PAS and if having that makes you feel like your driving a rally car...fantastic...I personally hated the PAS the feedback from my car with the manual rack is far better suited to my driving style and I like it. Personally the extra half a turn ltl isn't noticeable until parking...oh no!

I don't get you stromba you obviously know your stuff by why must you constantly beat your opinion into other people...why can't you just let it lie? And you persistence with re-registering with every account under the sun is bordering on clinical obsession. Maybe you should seek help about this? I dunno what else to suggest. I think I've met you in person a long time ago and I had no issue with you...infact thought you were well informed but why to you change into sombody different on here?!!

Peace out I'm done arguing with you as un-doubtibly the only time the argument will end is when you think you've won.

Lunner
28-11-2011, 10:58
I've met Rob a few times, he just likes coming on forums and winding people up, hence why he keeps getting banned from sites.

Quite why he feels the need to wind people up i don't know, boredom?

Sometimes its quite fun to bait him.

BTW Rob i was refering to the ph2 clio, if you would be as kind as to dig up some stats on them please, must admit i never found the stats myself i was told by at the time a Reno tech who had a 172 iirc, so please feel free to clarify

jimslong
28-11-2011, 17:24
Well the phase 2 1.2 clios had PAS electric steering didnt they?


Not sure what you are getting at to be honest, so not going to say you are wrong, but youll have to explain it better..

jimslong
28-11-2011, 17:25
Robert Barrington I understand where your comming from...but surely it's down to personal preference...fine we get it you like PAS and if having that makes you feel like your driving a rally car...fantastic...I personally hated the PAS the feedback from my car with the manual rack is far better suited to my driving style and I like it. Personally the extra half a turn ltl isn't noticeable until parking...oh no!

I don't get you Robert Barrington you obviously know your stuff by why must you constantly beat your opinion into other people...why can't you just let it lie? And you persistence with re-registering with every account under the sun is bordering on clinical obsession. Maybe you should seek help about this? I dunno what else to suggest. I think I've met you in person a long time ago and I had no issue with you...infact thought you were well informed but why to you change into sombody different on here?!!

Peace out I'm done arguing with you as un-doubtibly the only time the argument will end is when you think you've won.

Matthew Turner, thanks for that.

Winston
11-12-2011, 16:38
Ive had non power steering on most of my clios.

Williams rack not piped up.. This was abit to heavy imo the quickness of the rack made the steering heavy even when moving it made driving the car hard work.

1.2 rack.. Altho it had more turns lock to lock and was heavy for parking. Once the car was moving it was great fun to drive. If I was to get another clio and wanted to bin the PS I would do this.

Powersteering is the best tbh. The main reason I binned it off was due the powersteering pump making most jobs in the engine bay a ball ache. The cam powered Group A PS pump would be epic win :lol:

Lunner
13-12-2011, 08:13
Before i fitted mine i checked the PAS rack and the 1.2 rack i was going to put in, iirc the PAS rack had 6 turns lock to lock, and teh manual 6.5 turns, was defo only half a turn difference, so each way when steering was 1/4 turn, not sure you'd notice that?

Winston
13-12-2011, 14:59
A Williams PS rack is quicker than a valver rack or any other clio in the Mk1 range.

Red Cloud
13-12-2011, 17:15
Before i fitted mine i checked the PAS rack and the 1.2 rack i was going to put in, iirc the PAS rack had 6 turns lock to lock, and teh manual 6.5 turns, was defo only half a turn difference, so each way when steering was 1/4 turn, not sure you'd notice that?

The williams rack is 2.75 turns lock to lock. Renault 19 PAS rack is 3.1. Every manual rack i have ever seen have been 4.1

Winston
13-12-2011, 17:35
Hi Rob :lol:

u33db
16-12-2011, 10:57
Hello,

I was also one of those to convert my 16v to manual back in the day (2003 ish).

Mine was done with a 1.2 rack/column with bondys kit (1.7 brackets).

I found the steering was only marginally heavier when parking...certianly not unbearable. If the earlier poster (^^) is indeed Rob Barrington then hes met me me and can testify that i'm not muscle bound so my experience would be typical of an "average" person.

The reason i did it was the claims of around a 5bhp gain. I can't verify that but the engine certianly rev'd freer when it was done and having held a pas pump in my hand it definately adds a fair bit of drag on the engine so theres some performance gain to be had.

That said going from pas to manual did feel weird for quite a while until i got used to it.

Each to their own?

Also hello Winston and Rob - 'mon the old members! lol

Red Cloud
16-12-2011, 15:53
Dont listen to Dougal, he is built like a body builder and has arms like pythons.

And Winston can handle Manual steering because he W***s so much. Can only turn left though.

u33db
16-12-2011, 16:22
Dont listen to Dougal, he is built like a body builder and has arms like pythons.

And Winston can handle Manual steering because he W***s so much. Can only turn left though.

lmao!

schakal
21-12-2011, 18:12
Pics of my setup

do you remember the length of the belt needed for this mate ?
i keep forgetting :oops: :oops:

Winston
22-12-2011, 19:34
810-820 rings a bell

Rob :lol: :oops:

Red Cloud
22-12-2011, 22:45
Im watching the vw stuff, not long now util the clio bug comes back id say :lol:

schakal
20-03-2012, 11:40
Ok guys update time .

P/S rack running dry was an absolute shitter and uncomfortable to drive,so i errmmmm .... cut it in half .

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/evrenfenci/02032012214.jpg


Bought a manual rack and mated it with the p/s column .

Without question its one of the best mods i have done to a car ,although i am running turbines which are quite heavy , the steering is so nice and light its unreal . Somehow the turning circle seems to have improved as well .

No need to mention , with all that crap weighing a tonne out the way
i can now change the oil filter in 2 minutes ,alternator change would be piss too .

Chuffed to have a car with decent steering now ,happy dayzzz :P :P

dkrevs
20-03-2012, 13:14
^^Can you check how many LTL does that manual rack has? What car is it off?
Thanks! :D

schakal
20-03-2012, 14:08
^^Can you check how many LTL does that manual rack has? What car is it off?
Thanks! :D

4 + a tiny bit , p/s rac was 3.75 but its no different in lightness .
its a brand new rack for a 19 with no p/s :D

dkrevs
20-03-2012, 17:15
^^Can you check how many LTL does that manual rack has? What car is it off?
Thanks! :D

4 + a tiny bit , p/s rac was 3.75 but its no different in lightness .
its a brand new rack for a 19 with no p/s :D
Then that's great for daily driver with occasional straight line pull. I just hate LTL of my rack(not very good for cornering), well it could be worse I guess.
What rack do you have on R9 and how many LTL it has?

zmaster2k
21-03-2012, 14:12
Told ya! its mint :D

schakal
21-03-2012, 16:15
Then that's great for daily driver with occasional straight line pull. I just hate LTL of my rack(not very good for cornering), well it could be worse I guess.
What rack do you have on R9 and how many LTL it has?

same rack i believe mate , but my tracking is all over the place on the 9 now and needs to be sorted along with other things .