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Willbee
18-10-2011, 16:36
Hi guys,

The last couple of days I have been having issues getting my W2 into gear, but mostly 1st and 2nd. With the clutch pedal fully pressed down I still have to wrench the gearlever to get 1st or 2nd but it is mostly a problem after running for a while and after a few gear changes. Even from start it is quite stiff though. Then today "snap", clutch cable dead. Will be fitting a new one tomorrow.

My question is this: Is a clutch cable that was clearly near the end of its life likely to have caused the gear selection problem or might it be another underlying clutch/gearbox problem. FYI When the engine is off I can manually select the gears no problem and with no resistance.

Many thanks,
Will

chip
18-10-2011, 17:36
Normally they stretch before they brake, when they stretch it means the clutch doesnt disengage properly which will cause gear selection problems with the engine running.

Willbee
18-10-2011, 17:40
thanks a lot chip for your input. Apparently the garage said they can only get one from renault in france, meaning itll be fixed by thursday. Bummer! I'm a bit sceptical that is the only source available though!

16v_paddy
18-10-2011, 18:34
Could also be the pedal/ratchet mechanism at fault as the teeth can wear out. The cable stretching shouldn't really cause the problem as the ratchet mechanism will compensate for it - to a certain extent

You need to measure how much the clutch fork moves, should be 17-21mm, anything less & the pedal needs replacing. Most people on here will say that the cable should only ever be bought from Renault as pattern parts don't appear to be the right length & break easier but I don't agree with that any more, I've snapped 2 genuine cables now yet the non genuine cable I fitted after the 1st 1 snapped then refitted it after the 2nd 1 snapped & I've never had a problem

Jaymzfc
18-10-2011, 19:45
If i were you i would change the whole lot, pedal mechanism and the cable. It's a bugger to fix so you might as well do it in one shot.
Gluck.

Willbee
19-10-2011, 12:41
thanks guys..where can i buy the pedal mechanism? what parts does it consist off and how many more of my pounds can I say goodbye to? :lol:

Coops
19-10-2011, 13:28
renault again, although perhaps renaultcarparts do it as well?

not sure on costs, all i do know is its a bag of around 1000 little bits and springs, clips etc!lol!

Willbee
19-10-2011, 13:32
oh god! sounds like a nightmare! lol

chip
19-10-2011, 13:59
Yeah even just the cable is more of a pain than you would ever expect, and if you have to do the pedal too it only gets worse.

Especially if paying 50 quid an hour while someone else ****s around with it for a couple of hours!

Willbee
19-10-2011, 14:15
i thought it might be so ive got someone doing it on £40/hour tomorrow :x hoping that alone will be enough to fix the sticky gear selection problem. then when i get it back ill measure this clutch fork movement and see what's what.

16v_paddy
19-10-2011, 14:27
Well make sure you get the old cable back just in case the new 1 doesn't sort it. It's always good to have a spare :wink:

The pedal & ratchet mechanism was £53 from renault when I bought it 2 years ago, try Renault parts direct, they'll be able to sort you out & will most probably be cheaper than your local stealers too :wink:

Willbee
20-10-2011, 16:56
Update!

Right got a new clutch cable in, the peddle mechanism/ratchet is all good but still got a severe gear selection problem. Long story short.. I need a new clutch, b*****ks!

Where should I get a clutch from and how much are they.. Apparantly its about a 4-5 hours labour job as the engine will need to come out.

Also would I be wise to get a new timing belt fitted at the same time?

chip
20-10-2011, 17:05
If they are doing it by taking the engine out (personally I'd just take the box off not the whole engine normally out but either method is valid) then yes you may as well get a timing belt done at the same time.

Unusual to have a problem with the clutch itself wearing out causing gear selection to get harder though, normally they just slip like hell.

Have you tried manually operating the lever on the box and selecting gears just to be certain?

Willbee
20-10-2011, 17:09
Oh right, you can just take the gearbox off to do it? Is it something a total newb like me could do?

Yep it selcts gears manually with the engine off no problem. but the clutch is deffo dead as when i put it in gear and start the engine even with the clutch peddle fully down and the handbrake on it tries to creep forward..

Willbee
20-10-2011, 17:24
Is the correct clutch the one priced at £89.56 from Renault Parts Direct?

chip
20-10-2011, 17:36
Oh right, you can just take the gearbox off to do it? Is it something a total newb like me could do?

If you have patience and a socket set then yes, it doesnt require any specialist tools, but its not a trivial job either.


Yep it selcts gears manually with the engine off no problem. but the clutch is deffo dead as when i put it in gear and start the engine even with the clutch peddle fully down and the handbrake on it tries to creep forward..

Im asking what happens if you put your head under the bonnet and manually press the clutch release arm on the box to make sure its fully operating the clutch. not what happens when you press the clutch pedal.
So with: One person under bonnet operating clutch arm, one in car operating gears with engine running.

chip
20-10-2011, 17:36
Or without engine running depress the level with the car in gear and see if you can freely roll the car back and forwards, this will also check the clutch is disengaging properly.

chip
20-10-2011, 17:38
****ing edit button!


LEVER I meant, not LEVEL.

apologies, I keep forgetting this forum software is ****ing shite.

16v_paddy
20-10-2011, 17:47
Yep it selcts gears manually with the engine off no problem. but the clutch is deffo dead as when i put it in gear and start the engine even with the clutch peddle fully down and the handbrake on it tries to creep forward..

Have you measured how far the clutch fork moves as that's most likely the cause?
If the clutch was dead it'd just slip like fcuk & the car wont move, the clutch isn't disengaging from the flywheel
I had the exact same problem on mine but the cause of that was partly the ratchet and the fact I'd been given the wrong clutch.
Also when my clutch was fcuked it snapped the cable trying to operate it

Willbee
20-10-2011, 18:00
Sorry for my ignorance but how exactly do I take the measurement? Is it from underneath the car or from inside by the peddle?

16v_paddy
20-10-2011, 18:51
No need to apologise :wink:

Remove the airbox so you can see the clutch fork on top of the gearbox, then get someone to press the pedal while you measure how far it moves :wink:

Another thing it could be that I've only just thought of is the clutch arm pivot bush has worn out, it's a little bit of plastic with a dome shaped head that fits into the gearbox & the clutch arm pivots on it.
Unfortunately the only way to change it is to have the gearbox off

Willbee
20-10-2011, 22:41
Thanks 16V :D

Now removing the airbox.. :oops: Is it a case of first undoing all the pull-over clips around the airbox and then presumably the other half is secured from the inside?

Willbee
20-10-2011, 22:45
Also when my clutch was fcuked it snapped the cable trying to operate it

My clutch cable also snapped so it might indicate a similarly fcuked clutch?-I'll try and take this clutch fork movement measurement tomorrow though (fingers crossed), once I work out how to get the bloody airbox out! :lol:

16v_paddy
21-10-2011, 00:38
Once you've undone all the clips then the 3 screws holding half the airbox on - will be easier to undo those if you loosen the battery clamp so it can be moved out the way a bit - you'll then see 3 10mm nuts holding the other half of it to the throttle body & that's it :wink:

chip
21-10-2011, 09:39
Have you measured how far the clutch fork moves as that's most likely the cause?


Agreed, this is why im trying to get him to operate the lever on the box directly, as this should prove to him that the clutch can still be operated correctly if mine and your assumptions are correct that a failed clutch wont cause the issues he is having.

Willbee
21-10-2011, 16:53
Ive got a mate coming over tomorrow to do the test, so one way or another I will have got to the bottom of it.

Just managed to get it through an MOT (fortunatly clutch isnt part of the test).

Couple of things for the list were:

The two bolts on the back of the front subframe need tightening to stop the small amount of play. Unfortunatly they are seized so will need WD40'ing or possibly grinding off and replacing. On one side there is a rust hole next to/overlaying the position of the subframe bolt which will apparently need a small welded patch to fix before getting new bolt/existong bolts nice and tight to stop any movement. Apparently the sills are in very good nick though, and the rear arches have already been filled/repaired

The drivers side front shock needs a new top as again there is a small amount of play.

The back brakes are weak but having sat for 8 months they have still got a fair bit of rust on the surface which I have been advised should clean up with a bit more use.

I've got my fingers crossed that this clutch lever fork is the bad egg in this clutch problem though as the mechanic reckons it would be better taking the engine out if it needs a new clutch and reckons that it would be best to do the timing belt and water pump whilst it's out.. Could be looking at £600+ bill! :roll:

Willbee
21-10-2011, 16:56
Once you've undone all the clips then the 3 screws holding half the airbox on - will be easier to undo those if you loosen the battery clamp so it can be moved out the way a bit - you'll then see 3 10mm nuts holding the other half of it to the throttle body & that's it :wink:

Thanks again Paddy,

It all makes sense now.. I figured the battery would probably need to come out but managed to mislay my socket set last night. I will let you all know what happened when I measure the clutch fork tomorrow..

Willbee
21-10-2011, 16:57
Have you measured how far the clutch fork moves as that's most likely the cause?


Agreed, this is why im trying to get him to operate the lever on the box directly, as this should prove to him that the clutch can still be operated correctly if mine and your assumptions are correct that a failed clutch wont cause the issues he is having.

What differing symptoms would you expect to find if it was a failed clutch? Currently it feels like it's dragging rather than slipping..

chip
21-10-2011, 17:19
It wont be the fork itself at fault.

The fork tests are to find out if the ratchet is working properly etc and hence the cable moving enough.

Clutches can fail in mutliple ways, but only if the cover wasnt allowing the plate to move would you get problems with it disengaging that I can think of, and the only time ive personally seen that happen is physical damage to the cover (diff exploded and put a planet gear through it.

Normally a failure will result in a lack of drive, not a lack of disengagement, ie slipping from a lack of grip when its worn, or no drive due to a sheared spline.

Willbee
21-10-2011, 17:24
cheers chip.. the mechanic suggested that the rachet was ok when he put the new clutch cable in a couple of days ago, but as I say I'll measure the movement tomorrow and see whats what.

16v_paddy
21-10-2011, 21:09
cheers chip.. the mechanic suggested that the rachet was ok when he put the new clutch cable in a couple of days ago, but as I say I'll measure the movement tomorrow and see whats what.

It can still seem fine & work properly at readjusting itself when you refit the cable to it but still be buggered. It's a part that does suffer with wear & tear so it's ability to move the cable enough will diminish over time.

The more I think about this, the more I'm starting to think it's the pivot bush at fault as I've seen it before that the bush has worn away down to the bare metal of the stud it's fitted to which has then worn a hole through the clutch fork. That will also cause the clutch to not disengage properly as it's moved further away from the thing it's trying to move & if I'm thinking correctly that might give you false measurements when testing how far the fork moves when pressing the pedal :?

16v_paddy
21-10-2011, 21:13
This be the wee little sod I'm on about

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c249/evrenfenci/Photo-0241.jpg

Willbee
22-10-2011, 22:11
Evening guys,

I got a mate over this eve to press the clutch pedal whilst I measured the clutch fork movement. Not all that easy to measure to the mm but it seems to be giving me a measurement of 15mm..

16v_paddy
22-10-2011, 23:52
I'll cautiously say that the ratchet mechanism is buggered then.

I say cautiously as it's still a possibility the pivot bush could be worn out as well but 15mm is 100% not enough to fully disengage the clutch, needs to be a minimum of 17mm & a new 1 should move it 21mm.
Also replacing the pedal is a damn sight cheaper & easier to replace than the clutch itself plus you'll have the added bonus of peace of mind that it's been replaced & will be fine for the next 10 years :wink:

Get in touch with Renault Parts Direct & order a new pedal & ratchet assembly, the part number is 77 01 467 633 I paid £53 for mine just over 2 years ago so their price should be pretty close to that

Willbee
23-10-2011, 00:14
Thanks Paddy.. I'll drop RPD an email straight away and get a new pedal & ratchet assembly then. As you say, although it might be a knackered pivot bush, there will still be no harm in replacing the assembly meantime and it's worth a go to avoid a much more pricey clutch change option..

I'll keep you posted. Thanks again :wink: