Engine upgrade / ITB's / Internals

[Chadwick]

Morning All!

I've seen too many of you lot playing around with these trumpets for me to simply ignore! The time has come for me to join 'The Club'.

I've had my Williams2 for four years now, driven him hard every summer, and as of last Sunday evening, he's back in my friend’s barn, under a dust sheet ready to be 'fettled'. I intend to set him up for fast road driving, and track slagging.

After looking around on the Forum for the best solutions to go around this, I’ve found limited and mixed responses.

Would really appreciate everyone’s opinions to my upcoming project. :)

I've been an Electro/mechanical Engineer since leaving school, and I've always found it best to take one step at a time when playing around with things, and not bite off more than I can chew/ I don't want to lose interest.

Stage one
I intend to get the engine upgraded, improved and get him running again problem free.

Stage two
ITB's!

I will source all the parts at one point, to enable smooth continuity at the end.

Question Time
What engine parts do I need to source? What are the best sizes/dimensions for what I'm trying to archive?

Cams/Pistons/Valves/Lifters/Pullies/Fuel Injectors/Con-Rods/Oil Pump/Crank/Engine compressions/Sensors/ECU/Gaskets, etc!

What block work shall I undertake when It’s stripped down?

Thanks for your input, it really is valued!
Some pictures of the poor chap in question. When I get the project underway, I'll start a Photobucket profile to upload the project piks. Ive hundreds of recent ones but I am too lazy to upload :lol:

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/230287_10150180589711889_518071888_6832860_7818399 _n.jpg

http://a3.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/263278_10150268276256889_518071888_7605803_4659274 _n.jpg

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/296442_10150301063186889_518071888_7867173_1482696 612_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/298988_10150284800186889_518071888_7761290_2876181 _n.jpg

[dkrevs]

Cams:
Piper 285 or CatCams 225 or 213 would be my choice for F7R.
Pistons:
Wossner forged 11.2:1(more roadable(less ignition advance needed to avoid detonations) or 12.5:1(more ignition advance needed, Wobba has this comression ratio in his F7R, which drives daily :))
Valves:
Megane head has bigger valves 33mm inlet IIRC, compared to 32mm Williams or 31mm Valver. Megane head has better port size/shape.
Lifters:
New ones(INA brand) are somewhere around 300 pounds at Renault IIRC, some people say that 100 pound eBay lifters are up to the job.
Pullies:
Vernier pullies I'd chose CatCams, avoid Kent "chocolate" pullies.
Fuel Injectors:
Bigger than stock, don't really know which exactly, others will know.
Con-Rods:
Forged Wossner.
Oil Pump:
You can buy new from Renault arund 200 pounds IIRC.
Crank:
Measure it with micrometer to check if it's still within tolerance.
Engine compressions:
As said before 11:1 to 12.5:1.
Sensors, ECU:
Standalone, if I'd have the money I would buy Canems, that sideways_danny sells. It's also the only standalone so far(IIRC) which supports the Valver/Williams trigger pattern/fylwheel.
Gaskets:
Goetz or Elring.

Hope this helps :)

David

[chip]

Mtech V4 or megasquirt will also support the Renix 44-2-2 trigger pattern and both run software a lot more sophisticated than the canems (transient fuelling for example on the canems is really crude), but its such a basic application that it doesnt really matter anyway so even the mickey mouse canems will still cope.
Or if you swap to a megane flywheel then you can run a coilpack and then basically any aftermarket ecu you want as they'll all run a 60-2 crank sender anyway.

[sideways danny]

rule 1, avoid anything megasquirt based

[chip]

rule 1, avoid anything megasquirt based

I certainly agree if talking about bedroom trader assembled units, but I disagree when talking about decent commerical variants, the core design of in particular the software is far better than most aftermarket ecu's available, even ones at several times the cost, the problems come though when units are poorly assembled, these should be avoided like the plague as it only takes one dry joint on an injector output to write an engine off.

The control algoryhtms for fuelling on the megasquirt though really do make the canems mentioned by dkrevs for example look like an old carb by comparison, they are about 20 years apart in terms of development, if not more, the canems isnt even upto the standards of an early 80s OEM ecu for transient fuel control.

[sideways danny]

waffle

[Daz.]

waffle

This.

[Wobba]

Yay! ITB's!

Get the bottom end rebuilt, measured and honed if necessary. You can keep it standard or go high compression, up to you! High comp will cost though. You'll need rods and pistons and rings to match the size of your bores, which may be slightly bigger if it's been honed.

Use a Megane 714 head with the coilpack. Get it all ported up to match the ITB manifold too, before fitting. Standalone ECU. It's worth it.

The ITB's themselves...Jenvey or AT Power direct-to-head jobbies.

Cams? Well, depends what you want really. Broader spread of torque and useable power: Catcam 208's. Lots of high end power: Catcam 213's.

Alternatives are the 285's by Piper.

You can go mad with cams but they become so extreme (and expensive with solid lifters) that the car is no longer much fun on road. My 213's are fine.

May be worth replacing the oil pump on the old block.

See how much internal wear there is on the crankshaft too, and shells.

[2 live]

i see most people forget about the weber alpha system too. maybe cos the 'tuners' get better deals, more profit, from jenvey. weber set up can also be used without meg f/w. as can any other ecu, if you use a trigger wheel on the crank pulley.

[chip]

i see most people forget about the weber alpha system too. maybe cos the 'tuners' get better deals, more profit, from jenvey. weber set up can also be used without meg f/w. as can any other ecu, if you use a trigger wheel on the crank pulley.

The trouble with the webber alpha system is they wont let you have the software to map it so you are tied to webber dealers, well unless anything has changed recently as that always used to be the case?

Adding a 60-2 or whatever to the crank pulley isnt trivial really on the clio, just due to lack of access at that end of the engine, quicker just to change the flywheel for most people I would imagine and you can do the clutch at the same time so its not wasted effort.

[2 live]

yeah the software isnt exactly readily available. mine was done, badly, at aldon. but i know a good mapper who can remap it, who isnt a weber dealer. so it is doable with someone who knows what they are doing. ;)

[chip]

yeah the software isnt exactly readily available. mine was done, badly, at aldon. but i know a good mapper who can remap it, who isnt a weber dealer. so it is doable with someone who knows what they are doing. ;)

Well he must have obtained the webber software and lead from somewhere.

Its really not a good option for most people though TBH, if you have someone cheap and competant who can do it for you then fair enough, but most people wont be in that situation and would be better off with any other management instead.

IMHO the key thing with management is to decide who is going to map your car, then go with their advice on what management they would like to use.

[2 live]

aye, know what your saying. but its those said tuners/mappers that can be extremely biased about what they know, where they earn most profit, rather than what would be most suitable for the customers needs.

[chip]

aye, know what your saying. but its those said tuners/mappers that can be extremely biased about what they know, where they earn most profit, rather than what would be most suitable for the customers needs.

Just a case of finding one you trust I guess mate.
Or do it yourself.

I realise that Im obviously a lot more experienced than most people so its easy for me to say "just map your car yourself, its not that hard" and it seem like Im just saying that because I map lots of cars, but dont forget I had to start doing it for the first time once too, and I did so without incident so Im sure plenty of others can too, it really isnt that hard if you have a structured approach.