View Full Version : EP3 1/4 - Is This Why We Love Clio MK1's So Much..!?
1995clio16v
02-05-2011, 21:14
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa134/northern_imports/ep3qmile.jpg
Sick of hearing about it TBQFH! Honda Civic EP3 :roll: :roll: :roll:
This is my friends 1/4 mile from York dragstrip. Heres what they have had done to their car! Its 245bhp, dunno whether thats at the fly or wheels.
Its the one on the left!!!
KPRO mapped by 8 Speed
DC sports header/decat
RBC intake
Hondata Gasket
Spoon plate LSD 1k cost and £500 to have fitted!
ACT lightened flywheel
ECU cost 1k
That quarter mile doesnt look that impressive to me with the $ spent!?
:shock:
All I see is a manifold and decat and remap of a very mildly tuned car...245bhp? Nah, very optimistic dyno I'd say.
That's a 14s 1/4 mile time. Quite a few of us would blow that away.
1995clio16v
02-05-2011, 21:25
Yep, its a 1/4.
It must have had a fair bit done as these were only 197bhp as std.
Obvioulsy BHP means nothing. All Power to Weight.
I was just surprised at how poor that is. A standard-ish hybrid/williams stripped would nail that to the floor.
EP3's are a fooking heavy car though 1204KG!
walters300
02-05-2011, 21:28
jap crap in my opinion :wink:
EP3 is too heavy and not so good at handling. Only good thing is the engine. K20 is one of the best 2 litre engines ever made.
walters300
02-05-2011, 21:38
in fairness all jap cars can take a good hammering and the engines are renouned, still dont like them :P
F7P Turbo - 12.47@114mph
nuff said ;-)
walters300
02-05-2011, 21:41
8) ya that says it all :wink:
2.3 60ft and still run a 13.9 implies its got a lot more to come TBH
But its quite a heavy modern car so its bound to be slower than a lighter car with similar power.
MUCH better engine than any clio engine though IMHO
Exh manifold and system and improved intake with KPro is 225bhp but with cams then 245 is achievable...
Std S2000 with new management and exhaust is 260, seems to be a popular choice in rallying Mk2 Escorts. Equivelant Vauhall engine would cost 3 times as much for the same output.
My mates ep3 lump made 252bhp on a stock engine other than cams/intake/exhaust manifold/exhaust/remap
I think possibly that the rollers were a little optimistic, but its gotta be 240+
Yeah the XE is totally outclassed by the S2000 motor, I got asked to help spec a 280bhp for a rally car and pointed them at an S2000 instead, and im one of the XE's biggest fans
Honda engines are just awesome!
(shame most of the of the owners are idiotic children though, a bit like valver clios TBH but with a bit more money to spend, lol)
Well hello Leigh, funny how 2nd in class (NA, no nitrous, no turbo, no charger 1600cc to 1999cc) was a Clio Williams with cams ect, fully stripped out with one seat. :lol:
13.9 is a very respectable time at York, in a civic with the power I have, expecting better times at Pod, also the conditions weren't the best it being so warm and a strong head wind, car was running a bit rich as it was mapped in December in the freezing cold and TBH my car isn't just about straight lines, I'm more into my track days, and it handles amazingly.
Plus the car on the right is a 200sx so in comparison it is a very good time.
Anyone fancy a full spec list for me to justify my 245bhp feel free to ask. It's a very realistic figure for my modifications.
Cheers, and careful what you write on the interweb. I have eye's and ears everywhere. :lol: :wink:
x
EP3 is too heavy and not so good at handling. Only good thing is the engine. K20 is one of the best 2 litre engines ever made.
Not good at handling? :lol:
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Thanks for that.
8)
x
And also, the LSD is £1000 retail....
I didn't pay retail... :wink:
And I'm done....
:lol:
x
EP3 is too heavy and not so good at handling. Only good thing is the engine. K20 is one of the best 2 litre engines ever made.
Not good at handling? :lol:
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Thanks for that.
8)
x
I said not so good, I didn't say it's rubbish.
EP3 is too heavy and not so good at handling. Only good thing is the engine. K20 is one of the best 2 litre engines ever made.
Not good at handling? :lol:
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Thanks for that.
8)
x
Here is me versus a civic type r at combe, wouldnt call them terrible handling but didnt exactly give me much trouble either.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/th_combe-lap-clio.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/?action=view¤t=combe-lap-clio.mp4)
He started a couple of seconds in front of me, held me up a little then ended up a couple of seconds behind me, in one lap.
16v_paddy
07-05-2011, 18:57
Honda engines are just awesome!
(shame most of the of the owners are idiotic children though, a bit like valver clios TBH but with a bit more money to spend, lol)
OI!! :evil:
:P
Imperial_16v
07-05-2011, 19:01
245bhp annnnnnnnnnnnnnd 10lb-ft torque. :lol: I mean, peak power is something like 5,600rpm.... really not a fan of type-r's.
I can't say I'm not a fan of jap cars though, as I have an MPS. 8) Williams any day though. :twisted:
245bhp annnnnnnnnnnnnnd 10lb-ft torque. :lol: I mean, peak power is something like 5,600rpm.... really not a fan of type-r's.
I can't say I'm not a fan of jap cars though, as I have an MPS. 8) Williams any day though. :twisted:
I thought I had seen the last of totally retarded comments like that now I wasnt on clio16yearold anymore TBH
Over 140lbft of torque as standard from a Civic Type R engine. Far more than an F7R
16v_paddy
07-05-2011, 19:10
Aaaaahhhh I see we're on about the bread van shape, I had fun chasing down a couple of those at Bedford :D
16v_paddy
07-05-2011, 19:15
Anyway, it's all about FD2's for me, simply stunning cars by all accounts, I was supposed to be getting a go in 1 @ Combe in july but the knob jockey has got rid of it :evil:
I really like Accord type R's too, played with 1 at Combe last year, got thoroughly dicked by it and it had ****ed rings :oops: but the guy can bloody drive as well
If I was going to get any civic to keep (rather than the one I have now just cause I want the vtec lump for one of our clios) it would be an EK9, only other hondas I would want are another Integra or an S2000, the modern civic type r's are ok, but you can really feel the weight when you are driving them, just nowhere near as invovling to drive as a williams IMHO
GREAT engines though, was tempted by one for my clio before I went for the B18C4
Couple of pics of my old Teg as we're talking hondas:
http://www.dubway.co.uk/images/teg/chip/integra2.jpg
http://www.dubway.co.uk/images/teg/chip/integra6.jpg
16v_paddy
07-05-2011, 19:43
I thought I had seen the last of totally retarded comments like that now I wasnt on clio16yearold anymore TBH
Thought you were old & wise enough to know better [-X this is an internet forum remember :roll: :lol:
Imperial_16v
07-05-2011, 19:45
245bhp annnnnnnnnnnnnnd 10lb-ft torque. :lol: I mean, peak power is something like 5,600rpm.... really not a fan of type-r's.
I can't say I'm not a fan of jap cars though, as I have an MPS. 8) Williams any day though. :twisted:
I thought I had seen the last of totally retarded comments like that now I wasnt on clio16yearold anymore TBH
Over 140lbft of torque as standard from a Civic Type R engine. Far more than an F7R
I was only messing, like everyone does when they mention Type-R's... it's the "no torque stigma". My post wasn't to be taken as black and white. :)
245bhp annnnnnnnnnnnnnd 10lb-ft torque. :lol: I mean, peak power is something like 5,600rpm.... really not a fan of type-r's.
I can't say I'm not a fan of jap cars though, as I have an MPS. 8) Williams any day though. :twisted:
I thought I had seen the last of totally retarded comments like that now I wasnt on clio16yearold anymore TBH
Over 140lbft of torque as standard from a Civic Type R engine. Far more than an F7R
I was only messing, like everyone does when they mention Type-R's... it's the "no torque stigma". My post wasn't to be taken as black and white. :)
They make more torque per litre than most petrol engines the world has ever seen.
The misconception that they have less torque is just a sideeffect of them having lots of power for the size of the engine.
So people end up comparing a 1600cc vtec engine to a 2000cc williams one just cause it has more power than the williams, but in reality of course a 1600cc engine is going to have less torque than a 2000cc one, so its not that honda engines make less torque than other engines, just that they make more power.
Imperial_16v
07-05-2011, 19:57
245bhp annnnnnnnnnnnnnd 10lb-ft torque. :lol: I mean, peak power is something like 5,600rpm.... really not a fan of type-r's.
I can't say I'm not a fan of jap cars though, as I have an MPS. 8) Williams any day though. :twisted:
I thought I had seen the last of totally retarded comments like that now I wasnt on clio16yearold anymore TBH
Over 140lbft of torque as standard from a Civic Type R engine. Far more than an F7R
I was only messing, like everyone does when they mention Type-R's... it's the "no torque stigma". My post wasn't to be taken as black and white. :)
They make more torque per litre than most petrol engines the world has ever seen.
The misconception that they have less torque is just a sideeffect of them having lots of power for the size of the engine.
So people end up comparing a 1600cc vtec engine to a 2000cc williams one just cause it has more power than the williams, but in reality of course a 1600cc engine is going to have less torque than a 2000cc one, so its not that honda engines make less torque than other engines, just that they make more power.
:oops:
we all love to a have a rib at the honda boys tho don't we ;-)
we all love to a have a rib at the honda boys tho don't we ;-)
Just makes people sound clueless TBH, the williams lump is little more than a run of the mill 2 litre engine comparable with most other repmobile engines, the vtec's though are something that little bit special, built to a performance standard not just to a budget.
i was more thinking about all round package, the engines may well be 'better' but overall the cars aren't as capable in standard trim imo
MatBrown
07-05-2011, 20:36
If I was going to get any civic to keep (rather than the one I have now just cause I want the vtec lump for one of our clios) it would be an EK9, only other hondas I would want are another Integra or an S2000, the modern civic type r's are ok, but you can really feel the weight when you are driving them, just nowhere near as invovling to drive as a williams IMHO
GREAT engines though, was tempted by one for my clio before I went for the B18C4
Couple of pics of my old Teg as we're talking hondas:
[img]http://www.dubway.co.uk/images/teg/chip/integra2.jpg[/img
[img]http://www.dubway.co.uk/images/teg/chip/integra6.jpg[/img
Gotta love the EF9 civics and CRXs.
i was more thinking about all round package, the engines may well be 'better' but overall the cars aren't as capable in standard trim imo
The cars are pretty good too when they have a type r badge on them TBH although I prefer the clios just cause they are lighter.
Mind you, they make clios look like they dont rust by comparison, lol
Best combination is the honda engine in a clio I reckon ;)
i'm in line with those thoughts, its the weight thing being the clincher, the honda engines have to make up for the lardy chassis' they drag about :-)
as for the honda engine in a clio being the best combo....well we'll see won't we ;-)
i'm in line with those thoughts, its the weight thing being the clincher, the honda engines have to make up for the lardy chassis' they drag about :-)
as for the honda engine in a clio being the best combo....well we'll see won't we ;-)
We will indeed.
Eventually, lol
Gotta finish the 3 other cars I have to do first before I can even start on that one sadly.
My car has plenty of torque....
As for b series, my first car was a ukdm DC2.
The k series is just in a totally different league although I did love my teg.
That civic in the vid probably doesn't have a plate LSD like mine.... that helps more than I can say with handling....80+ mph round cascades at oulton.
Gotta love a bit of jap vs. French banter.... my daily is a saxo vtr. I understand they have character under their wankness....
And I'm a Honda girl thanks!
X
16v_paddy
07-05-2011, 22:29
And I'm a Honda girl thanks!
X
Awaits the torrents of jokes aimed at me now :roll: :(
Just glad I got a post in before the other vultures :lol:
And chip, did you used to have a corsa/nova with 2 engines or something daft?
x
16v_paddy
07-05-2011, 23:00
He's got a nova with a silly spec turbo engine in the back :wink:
Hahaha.... oh hai chip. You may remember me from pvs at pod a good few years ago ripping the shit out of some lad with a let corsa cause the tappets sounded like a fiesta, petrol on BBQ and other drunken random antics!
x
do apologise honda girl :-)
saxo is barely even a car, not even in the same playing field ;-)
ai, chips nova is a little bit on the crazy side! :lol:
do apologise honda girl :-)
saxo is barely even a car, not even in the same playing field ;-)
ai, chips nova is a little bit on the crazy side! :lol:
Apology accepted.... and leave my wee saxo alone... (I have deffo had too much wine if I'm sticking up for my saxo haha).
X
EP3 is too heavy and not so good at handling. Only good thing is the engine. K20 is one of the best 2 litre engines ever made.
Not good at handling? :lol:
Funniest thing I've read all day.
Thanks for that.
8)
x
Here is me versus a civic type r at combe, wouldnt call them terrible handling but didnt exactly give me much trouble either.
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/th_combe-lap-clio.jpg (http://s7.photobucket.com/albums/y251/chip-3door/clio/?action=view¤t=combe-lap-clio.mp4)
He started a couple of seconds in front of me, held me up a little then ended up a couple of seconds behind me, in one lap.
That's not an objective comparison - I'd get lapped round most tracks in a very well driven car with much less power.
My car has plenty of torque....
As for b series, my first car was a ukdm DC2.
The k series is just in a totally different league although I did love my teg.
That civic in the vid probably doesn't have a plate LSD like mine.... that helps more than I can say with handling....80+ mph round cascades at oulton.
Gotta love a bit of jap vs. French banter.... my daily is a saxo vtr. I understand they have character under their wankness....
And I'm a Honda girl thanks!
X
How aggressively set is that LSD? I have a Gripper diff in my Williams, but it's set to a conservative level currently.
It's set quite aggressively, but that's how I like it. Lol.
X
Hahaha.... oh hai chip. You may remember me from pvs at pod a good few years ago ripping the s**t out of some lad with a let corsa cause the tappets sounded like a fiesta, petrol on BBQ and other drunken random antics!
x
Lol, small world.
You going again this year?
With regards to LSD's they make a massive difference, a few of my current and past trackday cars have them and it really is night and day, especially in tighter corners.
Thats one of the reasons I have chosen the B18C4 actually, they have an LSD as standard, where as the K20 doesnt.
The K20 is a much better engine, but I only need 300bhp, which the B18 will do easily anyway so at that power level no real advantage to the K20
The way I see it, to get the b18 honda engine in and upto the 300bhp I want will basically be looking at roughly:
engine and box = 800 quid
custom shafts = 400 quid
management = 1000 quid
turbo/manifold/downpipe = 1500 quid
ally sump for me to modify = 300 quid
So thats about 4 grand or so.
To get 300bhp out of my williams engine it would be:
management = 1000 quid
rods and pistons plus engine rebuild bits = 1200 quid
manifold/turbo/downpipe = 1500 quid
quaiffe diff = 1000 quid
(management can be done cheaper but I have opted for autronic SM4 as its one I map quite reguarly for others and particuarly like, could save money by going mtech or similar but that would be the same for both engines anyway)
So staying clio engine is a lot less effort but in fact is more cost, and the differences then are:
If I stay F7R then Im on a totally peice of crap renault gearbox still even though it now has a diff, so although it will now handle well from the diff, I will just keep breaking the box, with the honda a failure will be rare and when it does occur I just but another box for a few hundred quid rather than risk writing off an expensive quaiffe diff, plus no hassle having to swap the diff from box to box etc, so could easily do just a straight box swap in an afternoon and be back ready to use the car again
If I stay F7R, then if I get an engine failure I have to start rebuilding another one with uprated rods etc again, where as with the honda I just need another secondhand engine and to spend a day fitting it
The honda is on solid lifters, thats yet more money if I want to go solids on the F7R, and at the end of a track session with lots of 8000rpm activity you do kind of need solids as the hydraulics start to collapse from the hammering they get
The honda engine is lighter
Down sides to the honda engine:
Much more hassle to fit
Weight distribution is slightly worse than the F7R as it sits a little further forward, but this is offset by less weight in the first place of course
Gearbox is heavier than the clio box (needs to be to be strong though!)
I spent quite a lot of time looking into other engines, first thought was the megane engine but they arent particuarly tunable without spending quite a bit of money and arent readily available enough, then I considered the vauxhall Clet/Zlet engines as im something of an expert on them anyway so would feel very at home with them and they are strong and the boxes are strong and also diffs are cheap for them but I rejected them on the basis of weight, thought about audi 20VT, but the standard internals arent as strong as the honda and they dont have an LSD as standard, so more expense, plus they are heavier and dont have solid lifters, also thought about the T4 volvo engine, but again same issues as the audi engine with lsd and standard internals strength, although at least they are quite light.
On balance for the power that I am after, and for being something cheaply sustainable in terms of both the core engine and the lsd box in the future if I break things, I think the B18 is a good choice still, Ive not seen any other engine yet that has made me regret the decision to buy the B18 donor car.
Very small world.
No, only tend to get myself to the jap shows these days.
X
I might be at japfest, as thats also run by the company I write for (future publishing)
Will keep an eye out for your car on track.
I should be there.... please come say hi if you spot me!
x
Nothing makes my cock grow more than my williams eating i-vt's and other hondas tbqfh.
Nothing makes my cock grow more than my williams eating i-vt's and other hondas tbqfh.
Pervert. :lol:
x
robi1000
09-05-2011, 17:22
Nothing makes my cock grow more than my williams eating i-vt's and other hondas tbqfh.
Where is the "Like" button? :lol:
If I was going to get any civic to keep (rather than the one I have now just cause I want the vtec lump for one of our clios) it would be an EK9, only other hondas I would want are another Integra or an S2000, the modern civic type r's are ok, but you can really feel the weight when you are driving them, just nowhere near as invovling to drive as a williams IMHO
GREAT engines though, was tempted by one for my clio before I went for the B18C4
Couple of pics of my old Teg as we're talking hondas:
http://www.dubway.co.uk/images/teg/chip/integra2.jpg
http://www.dubway.co.uk/images/teg/chip/integra6.jpg
heres me passing a teg very easily ;)....filmed from craggys freak of a saxo. which beat me quite a few times down the strip etc. and that was before it was even run in lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOiKs8pAWCY
Lol, just goes to show cars are nothing without the right driver, well unless he was on his cool down lap, lol
craggy had been chasing, and keeping with him for 5 or 6 laps previous to this. passenger in the sax was richy off here. i was chasing and trying to stay with the race spec green vr6.....i failed lol.
fitted in the 5, shuffing quick !
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_g5ByxgtolOE/TaMzPuI2CYI/AAAAAAAAFMg/-YwtofRFGHc/s512/SL371508.JPG
http://www.vdbworks.nl/projecten.php?projectid=25
Wow, thats awesome, what a cool combination of car and engine :D
Aint been on for some time,noticed some "remarks" regarding hondas etc , my lads got a civic type R...quick tool,heavy,well built,handles well,superb engine. If stripped out would give a williams a sorting.....if driven by someone with BALLS....and a lot of them are driven by people who honed their skills on renault 5s.
I myself owned a williams,an still own a 5 ,so im not knocking willys but just to say are both great cars with plenty of potential.
I would like a closer look at the 5 with honda mill!
simonr85
17-05-2011, 19:35
I have a williams and a an ep3, and say there isnt really much difference in handling wise, the williams has 4th engine mount, semi slicks and a few other handling mods yet my civic is standard with so so tires so a modded civic would probably handle better...... but thats my opinion who knows!
willyturb0
18-05-2011, 18:34
Point to point my civic dusts my williams. On a 1/4 mile the clio would win.
Fact is the williams is and old car now, its exciting to drive, and from my experiance it is a fun car to drive with out breaking UK speed limits (too much!). To have the same fun in the honda the speeds are alot higher as the car is more capable.
Williams is turbo'd, on coilovers, big brakes and fast. But 17 years old.
Civic is not as powerfull, handles as it was designed to, and 3 years young.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t24/willyturbo/small.jpg
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