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Coops
10-12-2010, 12:51
are they literally worth nothing now?

bought mine just over a year ago and couldn't get a williams 1 with mot for less than 2k

literally no serious interest in mine and its been up for sale for ages,whats the crack?

is it that people just arent risking older cars as its winter and everyones too skint to have a toy?or are the williams' just simply worthless now as the demand for their parts has dissappeared also due to essential collapse of the mk 1 scene over past year or two?

such a shame really!

Dunc
10-12-2010, 13:04
tbh, i wouldnt say the markets totally flopped with the williams, just winter time, selling cars now is always hard.

come spring, prices will rise again!

Dunc

Clio-Girl
10-12-2010, 13:08
well coopsie if you get sick of the sight of it, we would part with some pennies when you drop the price :wink:

need one to complete the family

fab
10-12-2010, 13:23
I'd agree with dunc. I know its the silly season but I reckon a williams is not on the top of anyone's shopping list this time of year, although you have had it for sale for a while.
Price wise, as there is no official/non-official guide (that i know of) then you would have to assume it's worth what anyone is willing to pay for it.
Just a hunch but I'd say you'd have to wait another 10 years before the mark 1's come back into big demand again.
In the meantime the rest of us can enjoy our's!

Red_Dash
10-12-2010, 13:55
My tuppenceworth. I think there are more reasons than this (I just don’t have time to write them ATM):

1) For a lot of people, running a >15 year old car on a daily basis is going to be expensive due to fuel costs and running costs. Many people commute quite a distance these days so you tend to need a reliable cheap car to run unless your Williams is a minter and mechanically sound (how many of those are still out there)

2) The majority of people run scared of high mileage cars (and most Willys are these days) so unless you get someone who 'knows a bit' about the Williams and what should have been replaced by that mileage, then you'll always struggle a little.

3) There are a large number of hot hatches out there that match the performance of the Williams, are younger and don’t cost a great deal more.

4) Speaking for myself here, I'm in my mid thirties and remember looking at the Williams in the showroom when it was new, it was my car to aspire to and I still love it. Move on a few years and the young 'uns have other cars they aspire to owning.

5) This is really a second car (I couldn’t afford to run it as my daily). With the recession etc I think the majority of people who aren’t ‘enthusiasts’ like ourselves are holding onto their money more and not buying things that can be perceived as frivolous.

6) At the end of the day, it's an old French car=rust, unreliable, money pit (joe public’s view)

7) Maybe every ‘enthusiast’, like us, who wants one has got one...

8 ) I would be surprised if this is a Williams/16V problem alone. I don’t follow the prices of 5Gt Turbos, 205 GTIs and the like but it wouldn’t surprise me if these have taken a dive too.

bigjim
10-12-2010, 15:19
im currently in the market for a nice hot hatch, owned a williams 3 before which was a low mileage minter, and the thing putting me off your car would have to be the mileage and obviously the other problems u mention, ie diff whine rear arches starting to rust etc. lots of other hatches out there for similar money in better condition and lots less miles. see the link to the other williams i found today on gumtree, only 56k on clock massive history etc for 2700.00, emailed him and he has a buyer coming on saturday, the low mileage mint examples of any iconic hatch will sell but high milers with problems wont, money pits.

fab
10-12-2010, 17:15
Can i throw another tuppence in :?:


My tuppenceworth. I think there are more reasons than this (I just don’t have time to write them ATM):

1) For a lot of people, running a >15 year old car on a daily basis is going to be expensive due to fuel costs and running costs. Many people commute quite a distance these days so you tend to need a reliable cheap car to run unless your Williams is a minter and mechanically sound (how many of those are still out there)
There are also many people who dont use a car to travel to work but would like a car for weekends, track days and so fourth

2) The majority of people run scared of high mileage cars (and most Willys are these days) so unless you get someone who 'knows a bit' about the Williams and what should have been replaced by that mileage, then you'll always struggle a little.
It's a niche market so anyone looking is/should be prepared to do some work

3) There are a large number of hot hatches out there that match the performance of the Williams, are younger and don’t cost a great deal more.
Yep and all soulless!

4) Speaking for myself here, I'm in my mid thirties and remember looking at the Williams in the showroom when it was new, it was my car to aspire to and I still love it. Move on a few years and the young 'uns have other cars they aspire to owning.

5) This is really a second car (I couldn’t afford to run it as my daily). With the recession etc I think the majority of people who aren’t ‘enthusiasts’ like ourselves are holding onto their money more and not buying things that can be perceived as frivolous.
One mans loss is another mans gain

6) At the end of the day, it's an old French car=rust, unreliable, money pit (joe public’s view)
It's not a car for joe public is it?

7) Maybe every ‘enthusiast’, like us, who wants one has got one...
There aint that many going available!

8 ) I would be surprised if this is a Williams/16V problem alone. I don’t follow the prices of 5Gt Turbos, 205 GTIs and the like but it wouldn’t surprise me if these have taken a dive too.
Not sure about his but I reckon the williams bottomed out on price a couple of years now.

Red_Dash
10-12-2010, 17:23
Yep :D

fab
10-12-2010, 17:41
^ great minds think alike :wink:
As for coops and his car. You see all the bad bits and his high mileage thing..well I have all the parts and an engine with 110K which i am almost giving away.
Bar the arch's and if you know what your doing you'd have that car sorted with £500.
Coops its too cheap! Put the price up mate and you'll see the phone will not stop ringing.

stevie_b
10-12-2010, 21:35
just winter time, selling cars now is always hard.


^ This.

I'm also in the market for a niche car (different marque) at the moment and have viewed a number of examples, with none so far meeting my standard, however, it is clear to me from trawling the ads for well over a month now that the same cars are up for sale the whole of this time. There have been just a couple that sounded very promising that by the time I have called they have already had a viewer on the way or have sold, but other than those (presumably minters and were certainly priced keenly if so) then nothing seems to be shifting. I'm hoping this means that it is a buyer's market for when I eventually find a car that does meet my standard!

Daz.
10-12-2010, 21:40
Cars have bombed in General - I really wanted to sell mine and get something else - looked on pistonheads saw lots I wanted and they were all cheaper than I thought!

Ooooo!

But!

Turns out mines worth feck all now as is everything else - so can't afford what I fancied as the offsets too big lol.

I'd give anything to be a cash buyer right now. :roll:

And if I had some spare cash coops I'd have your willy off you - still like it :D

richy
10-12-2010, 21:43
in general will always struggle this time of year, but certain cars will always be harder to sell due to a more niche market ie a williams

things like a 172/182 are ten a penny which will be one reason there cheaper then a fish n chip supper! :lol:

Daz.
10-12-2010, 21:49
^^ Aye, one day if you keep hold of a good one they should climb back up a little bit but it seems I bought one 2 years too early!

I'd have a phase 1 if I had my time again, 2k gets you a good one, 500 quid gets an even better one, few more quid on suspension and breathing mods - job done. :)

Robertio
10-12-2010, 22:10
I had mine for sale for months and no one even asked about it, eventually figured I'd keep it (this is about 6 weeks ago). Last weekend fitted a new alternator, got winter tyres and sorted out my insurance renewal. Next day I get an e-mail asking if it is still for sale (from a 2 month old advert), within 24 hours I had 2 other people ask for details. Next day the first guys checks the car over and the following day gives me the money I wanted and drove away.

I am completely bemused.

fab
10-12-2010, 22:21
Would i be right in saying it's like a double edge sword? your damned if you keep it and your damned if you dont!

richy
10-12-2010, 22:23
^^ Aye, one day if you keep hold of a good one they should climb back up a little bit but it seems I bought one 2 years too early!

I'd have a phase 1 if I had my time again, 2k gets you a good one, 500 quid gets an even better one, few more quid on suspension and breathing mods - job done. :)

tbh 90% of cars you buy will drop in value anyway after that amount of time!

but they might climb abit but cant see it being massively unless its a split mint example!

Smokey McPot
11-12-2010, 17:24
I bought mine with the intention of keeping it until it meets its maker, and I dont mean taking it to Renault for a service.

So although the market doesn't affect it me, its still a concern. All cars of this type eventually pick up in price, chins up kids.

Jamie.
11-12-2010, 19:01
Is this the one you got quite cheap? Or is that another one? Maybe it's priced too high for it's condition? I'd expect to pay £2k for a mint Williams now and £1.5k for one in reasonable to good condition. Sub £1.5k for anything less.

Jamie.
11-12-2010, 19:05
Just looked at your for sale thread. I reckon £1.8k is pretty reasonable.

walters300
11-12-2010, 19:08
get the gearbox done as it would put people with little knowledge off i think, car looks brilliant otherwise :wink:

talkingfish
11-12-2010, 20:22
Is this the one you got quite cheap? Or is that another one? Maybe it's priced too high for it's condition? I'd expect to pay £2k for a mint Williams now and £1.5k for one in reasonable to good condition. Sub £1.5k for anything less.

£2k for a minter.... I hope not... :cry:

Coops
11-12-2010, 20:37
thats my point, the value of what is suppsedly an iconic hot hatch had totally plummeted, if people only think its worth 2k mint then what chance has anyone got? its madness how the 'value' has plummeted in last 12 months, couldnt get any williams at all for less than 2k this time last year, now its worth less than a tidy 1.8 16v! :(

oh well i'll just have to keep it as an expensive ornament on the drive!

imo its cheap, throw 500 quid at it for arches and another 200 for a box rebuild and its done bar the niggles that every single other one will have no matter if its 2k or 5k!

i dont need the cash out of it yet but i'm looking at getting place with our lass in next six months so need to free some cash up really

fab
11-12-2010, 22:03
from what ive seen the UK market is being very cruel to williams owners in terms of resale value. and the gas thing is it has the limited run of 400 of them!
On the continent the worst go for €5K (bout £3500)

2K will buy you trouble or work which ever way you want to look at it.
4K and upwards and we start to see the REAL MINTERS!

And this site should be helping it's owners who have spent a lot of money on their cars to help bring the price up :?:

Tommo
12-12-2010, 14:05
Exactly fab, the value has plummeted because people keep selling them for much less than they're worth for a quick sale. Can't see me ever selling mine now tbh, I'd rather store it than let it go so cheap.

Danno
12-12-2010, 18:50
i personally think it has somthing to do with the price reguarding the interest levels

We all know the williams has had plenty of press in the last 6-12 months in popular car mags about how good a car it still is and that the driving experience is second to none, its a future classic etc etc. so all the people looking for a 1 with the exclusivity of the build number ( or whatever you want to call it) to invest in, will no-doubt be after as mint an example as poss. no i dont know if i speak for everyone, but when i'm trawling through pistonheads or e-bay or auto trader or wherever i automatically ignore the ones that are lower in price thinking that PRICE MUST REFLECT CONDITION.

i ALWAYS look at the adverts that are higher priced. i think instinct tells us that the more a car is for sale for the better condition it must be in etc etc and so because of this people just skip past.

maybe :D

Jamie.
12-12-2010, 20:14
Is this the one you got quite cheap? Or is that another one? Maybe it's priced too high for it's condition? I'd expect to pay £2k for a mint Williams now and £1.5k for one in reasonable to good condition. Sub £1.5k for anything less.

£2k for a minter.... I hope not... :cry:

Yeah, well, I guess I should explain myself. 2k is a good condition upwards I'd say. Tbf, to the right person yours is more likely to be worth imo, about £5k.

fasterthanjesus
12-12-2010, 22:25
worth at least $20,000 :wink:

fab
12-12-2010, 23:06
To be fair there are guides on buying and plenty of advice and articles on fixing them.
The main problem I see is that there should be more fact than opinion on value/price (no reference to fasterthanjesus or anyone else)

Everyone no matter what you drive values their cars higher than what either the market dictates or what the book says. As there is no book on the value of a Williams per se then it should be written!

My approach would be to take the "current breakers price" as a starting point, which I believe to be in the region of £600 to £800 , and from there add on the good bits about the car. For example, no chassis damage and no paint work required add £2800 to the base price of £700. Engine/Gearbox OK add another £700. Interior imac add another £300 and so fourth.
This is just an example but you get the idea.

dimma
13-12-2010, 00:08
i sold my willy 2 yesterday for a grand it needs both rear arches several patches underneath bonnet needs respray and the doors are rotten underneath.needs mot although i did just spend 400 on the engine.

JamieG
13-12-2010, 00:30
I bought my Williams 1, with 111k on the clocks for £2500, mechanically its superb. I have replaced a few bits on it, mainly trim items so far, its had new lights, seals around doors etc.

Its got a full service history and has had no expense spared throughout its life. I have receipts in excess of £19k. The arches are good, they do have a small amount of rust, but its been properly protected.

I think if i was to spend another £1500 on it, it would be one of the better ones about and would be worth much more than what i've invested in it.

In my eyes, they are still worth the money.

katbloke
13-12-2010, 14:22
Id personally put it down to financial climate.
My cars off the road awaiting time and money to be spent on it either have none of each.
Coops id have 199 off ya like a shot bat that price but simply cant afford it.
With xmas, overtime bans and the price of everything rising as quick as it is unless somethings nigh on a give away it wont sell.

Wobba
13-12-2010, 14:39
Sold the valver within a week of being on PH, not planning on selling the Williams anyway. I'd never get back the cash I've put in, and to me it's worth more than money.

Bad time to sell tbh, plus the car itself has a few image issues, its a niche market car and peoples perception of old French cars is not the best.